this is not the character i signed up for

[Starchild]

Exhibit A:
This WAS Raven.


Exhibit B:
THIS is Raven now.


Deal with it.

Even though, I agree with you. Fans will attack you on here if you tell them to just deal with it. I speak from experience lol.

[Doctor Know]

How exactly is Doctor Fate a 'mess?' Is it because it's a brand new character, a POC to be exact. And not Kent Nelson?

Maybe it has to do with there being 8 Doctor Fates since the 90s.

Kent Nelson

Inza Nelson

Eric Strauss

Linda Strauss

Hector Hall

Kent V. Nelson

Khalid Ben-Hassin

Khalid Nassour


DC has basically reduced the character of Doctor Fate down to whoever has the helmet. To a lesser extent, look at Marvel and how they have made multiple Captain Americas and Thors. Whoever has Capt's shield is Captain America, and whoever can wield Mjolnir is "Thor". Why get invested in a character if virtually anybody can wear the suit?

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

I don't have any huge sentimental attachment to any DCU characters really. Read Superman and GL and watched B:TAS as a kid, but my adolescence to early adulthood was spent reading Marvel. Although there are DCU characters I have grown to love since reading/watching DCU past and present over the past 5 years.

I'll agree w/ the consensus that Wally Wast and his fanbase were done a great injustice w/ the change. And while I'm not a Tim Drake fan, I don't like the changes they made to him that I read a while ago, but he's seemed to have been normalized a bit in what I've read outside of TT. Ollie I'm too unfamiliar w/ in the New 52 to know how much he's changed. But it definitely seems that DC got rid of a lot of unique personalities and replaced them w/ generic shells or edgier versions of their former selves.

However, I also agree w/ the few who say to just deal w/ it or get over it. They're fictional characters after all, and none that you created or have the rights to.

I am a Supes fan, and I loved how they made him just a teensy bit more of a smartass. However, I absolutely despise the decision to kill off his parents. The fact the greatest superhero still had living, happy parents was something that I felt always set Supes apart - showed how the strive to fight evil doesn't need to come from some traumatic event, but that it can be an intrinsic virtue on its own merit. Now he's just another dead-parents superhero.


The lack of a Lois Lane relationship also kinda irks me. He's still one of my favorite characters, though.

[Doctor Kent Nelson]

How exactly is Doctor Fate a 'mess?' Is it because it's a brand new character, a POC to be exact. And not Kent Nelson?

Doctor Fate has been a mess post-Zero Hour and you only need to look at the "popularity" or "success" of every incarnation since... you might as well call the new Doctor Fate, a kid wearing a yellow smartphone on his head with some clichéd links to Egypt.

[Starchild]

Maybe it has to do with there being 8 Doctor Fates since the 90s.

Kent Nelson

Inza Nelson

Eric Strauss

Linda Strauss

Hector Hall

Kent V. Nelson

Khalid Ben-Hassin

Khalid Nassour


DC has basically reduced the character of Doctor Fate down to whoever has the helmet. To a lesser extent, look at Marvel and how they have made multiple Captain Americas and Thors. Whoever has Capt's shield is Captain America, and whoever can wield Mjolnir is "Thor". Why get invested in a character if virtually anybody can wear the suit?

Different mantles lead to different types of storytelling in MY opinion.

[Starchild]

Doctor Fate has been a mess post-Zero Hour and you only need to look at the "popularity" or "success" of every incarnation since... you might as well call the new Doctor Fate, a kid wearing a yellow smartphone on his head with some clichéd links to Egypt.

Agree to disagree.

[Doctor Kent Nelson]

DC has basically reduced the character of Doctor Fate down to whoever has the helmet. To a lesser extent, look at Marvel and how they have made multiple Captain Americas and Thors. Whoever has Capt's shield is Captain America, and whoever can wield Mjolnir is "Thor". Why get invested in a character if virtually anybody can wear the suit?

Exactly... there was something compelling about the original being trained by Nabu with only Kent Nelson being able to wield the items successfully.

[Doctor Kent Nelson]

Agree to disagree.

Respect

[Starchild]

But I will say this. I always liked Doctor Fate, no matter who was under the helmet. If I want some good mystical stories from DC, I don't turn to Constantine, Zatanna or even Swampy. It's Doctor Fate.

[Doctor Know]

Different mantles lead to different types of storytelling in MY opinion.

At the same time though, look at how many Fates there have been since 1994 (Zero Hour is when the original died), and ask yourself how many of the subsequent Fates were a success. They keep creating new Fates and hoping to catch lightning in a bottle that the original had. None of the successor Fates have lasted very long, and most don't have a signature story or arc that you can point to. The exception being Hector Hall during Johns' run on JSA, and that was his battles between Mordru.

[Starchild]

At the same time though, look at how many Fates there have been since 1994 (Zero Hour is when the original died), and ask yourself how many of the subsequent Fates were a success. They keep creating new Fates and hoping to catch lightning in a bottle that the original had. None of the successor Fates have lasted very long, and most don't have a signature story or arc that you can point to. The exception being Hector Hall during Johns' run on JSA, and that was his battles between Mordru.

As long as the stories resonate with me, that's all I care about in the end. And I liked most of the Doctor Fate stories that have come out. The first series is in the 80's and the Giffen stuff were some of my faves. But I will tell you what I don't like: I don't like when the users were super dependent on the helmet. Kent Nelson wasn't like that, he was already skilled in sorcery. If I am not mistaken.

[Doctor Know]

As long as the stories resonate with me, that's all I care about in the end. And I liked most of the Doctor Fate stories that have come out. The first series is in the 80's and the Giffen stuff were some of my faves. But I will tell you what I don't like: I don't like when the users were super dependent on the helmet. Kent Nelson wasn't like that, he was already skilled in sorcery. If I am not mistaken.

You're correct about Kent being a skilled sorcerer who also had the items of Fate. Just like how Stephen Strange is a legit sorcerer without his accessories as well.

[Starchild]

You're correct about Kent being a skilled sorcerer who also had the items of Fate. Just like who Stephen Strange is a legit sorcerer without his accessories as well.

So I can understand why some people would be turned off by the new Doctor Fate. Honestly man, I really do love Doctor Fate. I miss it when he was the go-to person for anything magic related. Now that honor goes to John Constantine. Yuck! I'll never forget his appearance on Superman TAS. Chills!

[Doctor Kent Nelson]

So I can understand why some people would be turned off by the new Doctor Fate. Honestly man, I really do love Doctor Fate. I miss it when he was the go-to person for anything magic related. Now that honor goes to John Constantine. Yuck! I'll never forget his appearance on Superman TAS. Chills!

and this is why he was so bad ass in Superman TAS!

[FlashingSabre]

How exactly is Doctor Fate a 'mess?' Is it because it's a brand new character, a POC to be exact. And not Kent Nelson?

Honestly, I'm still mad Earth 2 Fate got dropped for no reason. He was way more interesting than this stupid med-student thing.