Is anyone else sick of the DC bashing?

[Götterdämmerung]

Nazi comparisons are never cool. Don't do that. And it's too bad you're not buying. but the New 52 was a BIG success for DC. They'll take that tradeoff, I'm sure.

I agree with all this, Trey. People who aren't buying, start buying, even if it's just the entirety of the Johns Justice League and current Martian Manhunter runs. You will NOT regret it, and funding J'onn's title in particular will support an absolutely terrific title with a great and creative story and excellent art imo.

[Prisoner 6655321]

Nazi comparisons are never cool. Don't do that. And it's too bad you're not buying. but the New 52 was a BIG success for DC. They'll take that tradeoff, I'm sure.

It wasn't a comparison per se so much as pointing out that opposition to "change" doesn't mean you're some kinda throwback. It's obvious anecdotal hyperbole pointing out what should be obvious, not all change is good, not all resistance to change is bad. I could have used any number of historical comparisons, Native Americans saying "ugh... I don't like the way this is going" when colonization started, Lars von Trier saying "gah, do they really need to do that" when Steven King remade Kingdom. I hope I was pretty clearly not comparing DC to the Nazis.

Added:

Ehh... I got the first few issues of DW and left with the feeling that it was a pale imitation of the forth world and I was pretty unimpressed with Darksied's Daughter or her mom. In general I respectfully disagree about DC's current output or strategies. I keep up with the trades hoping to find the sorts of stories I loved about DC but the more time passes the less I'm inclined to think that'll happen.

[LoneNecromancer]

Some change is good, some is bad, what's important is the nature and reason(s) for those changes. Obviously this is hyperbole but using the sort of logic “those fans hate change” is oversimplifying something to the extreme but there were folks in Germany back in the 1920's that said “Man, I dunno if I should stick around for this Nazi shit” according to some of the logic professed here, these negative Nancies were just holding back progress, right? Obviously not, and to reiterate (not that I should need to), post-Flashpoint is nowhere as bad as the Beer Hall Putsch.

Fucking hell.

[Lee Stone]

It wasn't a comparison per se so much as pointing out that opposition to "change" doesn't mean you're some kinda throwback. It's obvious anecdotal hyperbole pointing out what should be obvious, not all change is good, not all resistance to change is bad. I could have used any number of historical comparisons, Native Americans saying "ugh... I don't like the way this is going" when colonization started, Lars von Trier saying "gah, do they really need to do that" when Steven King remade Kingdom. I hope I was pretty clearly not comparing DC to the Nazis.

Added:

Ehh... I got the first few issues of DW and left with the feeling that it was a pale imitation of the forth world and I was pretty unimpressed with Darksied's Daughter or her mom. In general I respectfully disagree about DC's current output or strategies. I keep up with the trades hoping to find the sorts of stories I loved about DC but the more time passes the less I'm inclined to think that'll happen.

Actually... looking at things...
The success of DC has been hinged on-
1. Batman and Detective getting their first #1 issues since the Golden Age
2. Johns and Lee taking over Justice League with a new #1
3. Batman and Justice League maintaining stability without a writer change since the relaunch.

I personally think the reboot aspect New52 got all the credit for DC's success in 2011 when there was much more actually influencing the turn around.
Take out the reboot and what do you have..?

A line-wide relaunch.
A major publicity push. Probably the biggest since 'Death of Superman'.
Same-day digital began.
Variant covers started in full swing with New52 and have increased each year since then.
Geoff Johns and Jim Lee launched a new series featuring DC's A-Team.
Detective Comics, Action Comics and Batman got their first #1 issues since the Golden Age.
The comics code was dropped earlier in the year, also, which impacted storytelling.

Matter of fact, by the same logic...
DC dropped the comics code in 2011, sales increased in 2011, therefore sales increased because DC dropped the comics code.
Or...
DC went same-day digital in 2011, sales increased in 2011, therefore sales increased because DC went same-day digital.

The reboot had a hand in it, but it wasn't the only reason for the sales turnaround.
It's just the thing that gets pointed to, to redirect attention away from all the other factors.

Worth mentioning is that DC's current big two sellers, Batman and Justice League are, coincidently, the only two launch titles that never had a writer change, which usually leads to a drop in sales.
They also mirror DC's two big sellers from before the reboot: Batman and Green Lantern (also by Johns).
So, maybe the key to sales isn't rebooting, but rather having a quality team of creators on a book and maintaining consistency and stability.

And here we are just five short years later and the DCU is no more new reader friendly now than it was in 2010.

[Sirzechs]

No surprise there. Geoff Johns has always been about personal "wish fulfillment" and making all his fanboy fantasies come true. IMO, he's one of the biggest problems at DC and needs to be let go or fired before they can get better.

I'm sorry but what? one of basically two current writers than DC has left that can move units on name alone is their biggest problems?

Also why must fans have this hypocritical nature about them when it comes on to removing bad stories from characters? because i'm pretty sure many of them same people that call Johns a fanboy from retconning Emerald Twilight from Hal Jordan are the same people that complains why DC won't retcon story X from character Y. so explain to me how is it ok for one but not for the other?

[The Darknight Detective]

I'm sorry but what? one of basically two current writers than DC has left that can move units on name alone is their biggest problems?

Also why must fans have this hypocritical nature about them when it comes on to removing bad stories from characters? because i'm pretty sure many of them same people that call Johns a fanboy from retconning Emerald Twilight from Hal Jordan are the same people that complains why DC won't retcon story X from character Y. so explain to me how is it ok for one but not for the other?

It's good that I did great in algebra or else I wouldn't have known the values of X and Y there.

[The Darknight Detective]

It's good that I did great in algebra or else I wouldn't have known the values of X and Y there.

I should add that I do agree with some type of retcon of X for character Y.

[GlennSimpson]

So, maybe the key to sales isn't rebooting, but rather having a quality team of creators on a book and maintaining consistency and stability.

Or maybe when sales are high, there's no reason to change creators.

[Götterdämmerung]

It's interesting that Snyder is leaving Batman for Detective...too bad he couldn't have hit titles that really could use him, like GL or Superman/Action Comics. Just my opinion, but the last in particular could really use a shot in the arm. Let's hope we get somebody better...as in BETTER in the Rebirth thing.

[LoneNecromancer]

No surprise there. Geoff Johns has always been about personal "wish fulfillment" and making all his fanboy fantasies come true. IMO, he's one of the biggest problems at DC and needs to be let go or fired before they can get better.

One of the most successful writers who's written a ton of best-selling runs for DC is their biggest problem, as well as the guy who's been majorly involved in helping adapt DC properties for other media.

Fantastic logic there.

[Götterdämmerung]

One of the most successful writers who's written a ton of best-selling runs for DC is their biggest problem, as well as the guy who's been majorly involved in helping adapt DC properties for other media.

Fantastic logic there.

Superman Unchained brought me back to comics, but Blackest Night and the Sinestro Corps War kept me there.

[JasonTodd428]

So, maybe the key to sales isn't rebooting, but rather having a quality team of creators on a book and maintaining consistency and stability.

Well Batman and Justice League have been high sellers this whole time so I think there may be something to that. I think once a quality team is found for a book that actually seems to be a good fit they should just be left alone to work on that title for as long as they want to. To me it makes the book more consistent and stable for the duration of their run and easier for the next writer to come on as well. It allows for a much more cohesive continuity within the title as well. Books having long runs with the same creative team is one of the things I miss from when I started reading comics. Honestly, I don't think constant relaunches, renumberings and reboots are the way to go if you're wanting long term results. They're a great short term band-aid but that's about all they are.

[Sirzechs]

It's interesting that Snyder is leaving Batman for Detective...too bad he couldn't have hit titles that really could use him, like GL or Superman/Action Comics. Just my opinion, but the last in particular could really use a shot in the arm. Let's hope we get somebody better...as in BETTER in the Rebirth thing.

I think Detective Comics is a good place for Snyder at the moment, for one Detective Comics needs a shot in the arm to be a top book again after all majority of the bat characters first appearances where in Detective Comics and Snyder as free reigns(yet he had alot of freedom over at Batman but this seems like he'll get more now)

[Sirzechs]

I should add that I do agree with some type of retcon of X for character Y.

As long as the retcon helps the character rather than hurt, I'm for it.

[The Darknight Detective]

As long as the retcon helps the character rather than hurt, I'm for it.

Absolutely, Sirzechs.