Is anyone else sick of the DC bashing?

[Ascended]

I can certainly understand fans being concerned at the time about John Stewart. Hell, I was concerned and made it clear that if they killed John, I'd drop the books.

But how long ago was that? And it didnt happen in the first place. Why are people still holding it against Didio today?

You know, ten years ago I considered stealing a candy bar from a store. Just for a second. Never actually did it, or even attempted it. If I were held to the same standard as Didio, people here would have me in jail for that.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Besides, Dick would have been gone as long as Clark and Bruce were when they "died." The whole uproar was just silly, IMO.

I really have my doubts on thios one. Just look at Wally.

Regardless, we'll never know, and that's for the best.

Yet, I have been reading stories recently about how Dido wanted to bring John into a more prominent position in the comics due to the success of JL/JLU, but was rebuffed by the fans. At any rate, John has never been in the safe position Dick Grayson is in, so I can at least understand concerns by fans of his over his possible demise.

It's not only stories, you can see that in the comics: John being the main GL in Joe Kellys's JLA and becoming Earth's official Lantern under Winnick and such, all line up with the time of those reports. Didin't work out, nor it was such an aggressive move as it could have been, but oh well.

[BohemiaDrinker]

The one that leaves me scratching my head is that some people *today* still want to crucify Dan Didio for *considering* to kill off Dick Grayson a decade ago in INFINITE CRISIS. Granted, that would have been an extremely bad idea that I would not have supported, but in the end, Didio agreed to not go through with it, so I don't understand giving him grief over it a decade after the fact. Tough standard...people getting pilloried for bad decisions that they *almost*, but didn't make, a long time ago.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I can certainly understand fans being concerned at the time about John Stewart. Hell, I was concerned and made it clear that if they killed John, I'd drop the books.

But how long ago was that? And it didnt happen in the first place. Why are people still holding it against Didio today?

You know, ten years ago I considered stealing a candy bar from a store. Just for a second. Never actually did it, or even attempted it. If I were held to the same standard as Didio, people here would have me in jail for that.

I think (may be wrong here) that people hold Didio against these ideas that never happened because they kind of show his preferences, and his preferences don't align with those of many fans. If the guy considers killing off Grasyon or Stewart, it means that his sacred cows are not the same of those characters' fans, and it gives them a sense that their favs are always at risk. (And then they look at say, Wally West and Cass Cain and think "hell, they really are at risk").

Which is funny, really, because I get the sense that Didio actually likes keeping people on their toes; it's just that he sees himself as a George RR Martin while disgruntled fans see him like a bully or something of the sort.

[Cowtools]

I'm not sick of the DC bashing, I'm sick of DC giving us reasons to bash them.
As a fan of the DC universe and characters, I want to love the comics I read, and I want to read more of their comics. But with the exception of the Batman line and a few DCYou books, the DC line feels directionless and stale. It's not that my favourite characters aren't exactly how I'd prefer them, I can live with that; it's that DC isn't making the most of the characters it has. They have talented writers and artists, but they are not making the best use of them.

[The Darknight Detective]

I really have my doubts on thios one. Just look at Wally.

Regardless, we'll never know, and that's for the best.

Wally is not on Dick's iconic level, though. There is just no way the first and most popular sidekick of them all would be permanently sidelined.

It's not only stories, you can see that in the comics: John being the main GL in Joe Kellys's JLA and becoming Earth's official Lantern under Winnick and such, all line up with the time of those reports. Didin't work out, nor it was such an aggressive move as it could have been, but oh well.

Oh, I believe Didio was trying to give John a push forward. I should have typed "posts" instead of "stories."

[Götterdämmerung]

Yet, I have been reading stories recently about how Dido wanted to bring John into a more prominent position in the comics due to the success of JL/JLU, but was rebuffed by the fans. At any rate, John has never been in the safe position Dick Grayson is in, so I can at least understand concerns by fans of his over his possible demise.

GLC is easily my favorite title, and I would love most if John led that title. As a former marine and architect, to me he should be the main focal point. We almost saw that...but then we got screwed again Look like the Corps is selling okay again, so I can't see why they wouldn't bring back the regular 12 a year title, especially with the movie upcoming.

Sorry, I get excruciatingly boring on the subject of the GLC. That's the one title in all of comics that I'd drop all others for if I had to, and I'm upset it's not getting at least Tomasi-level treatment. FOR THE CORPS!

[Buried Alien]

Wally is not on Dick's iconic level, though. There is just no way the first and most popular sidekick of them all would be permanently sidelined.

Indeed. Dick Grayson/Robin/Nightwing/Batman/Agent Grayson of Spyral is probably the fourth most well-known character in the DC Universe after the Trinity itself.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Sodam Yat]

Yet, I have been reading stories recently about how Dido wanted to bring John into a more prominent position in the comics due to the success of JL/JLU, but was rebuffed by the fans. At any rate, John has never been in the safe position Dick Grayson is in, so I can at least understand concerns by fans of his over his possible demise.

I've just heard this about Didio recently as well. Wow, I can't believe Didio actually had some support for John. Dan Didio usually has a bad name among John Stewart fans.

The art on EoO was a point definitely in its favor. But dropped the ball is putting it lightly. Even what was really good about Lost Army was pretty much sacked, for bad reasons that were actually explained here on CBR by the creators (proper kudos to the last for being cool enough to explain). And as you mentioned, LA wasn't exactly a great story overall, just a good one. The profiling on John was what made it worth the cash for me, and then that was thrown out. I guess I'm holding a grudge on that one, my favorite title getting fumbled like that. Irks me.

Me personally, I would give Lost Army a solid B+. It's considered an underrated story, since DC wouldn't let Bunn finish the story that he wanted to tell. I was so interested in what Krona's role will be, including Relic. Really sad all of this has been scrapped. Sometimes I don't understand DC's decisions.

GLC is easily my favorite title, and I would love most if John led that title. As a former marine and architect, to me he should be the main focal point. We almost saw that...but then we got screwed again Look like the Corps is selling okay again, so I can't see why they wouldn't bring back the regular 12 a year title, especially with the movie upcoming.

Sorry, I get excruciatingly boring on the subject of the GLC. That's the one title in all of comics that I'd drop all others for if I had to, and I'm upset it's not getting at least Tomasi-level treatment. FOR THE CORPS!

Yea, John has a very rich background history, so I find it hard to believe that writers would have a problem writing him. Lost Army should've continued on. I always liked how Bunn explored John's past as well. Everyone knew it was going to be a limited series, so why even cancel it? Interesting how Dan Didio and co. easily gives Omega Men a second chance.

[Götterdämmerung]

I've just heard this about Didio recently as well. Wow, I can't believe Didio actually had some support for John. Dan Didio usually has a bad name among John Stewart fans.



Me personally, I would give Lost Army a solid B+. It's considered an underrated story, since DC wouldn't let Bunn finish the story that he wanted to tell. I was so interested in what Krona's role will be, including Relic. Really sad all of this has been scrapped. Sometimes I don't understand DC's decisions.



Yea, John has a very rich background history, so I find it hard to believe that writers would have a problem writing him. Lost Army should've continued on. I always liked how Bunn explored John's past as well. Everyone knew it was going to be a limited series, so why even cancel it? Interesting how Dan Didio and co. easily gives Omega Men a second chance.

I think your rating is about right, but the stuff on John was an A- by itself really good and it could have made Edge of Oblivion A+ all the way imo. Instead, I'm giving the series a basic B, and to be honest more than a little of that has to do with Sciver. If they really did kill off Arisia and B'dg than that grade will plummet for me.

That kind of thing does make me sympathize with the bashers, if nothing else. If this kind of ball fumbling has been rampant on DC, shame on them. They can do so much better... at least I hope so, for our sakes.

[The Darknight Detective]

I've just heard this about Didio recently as well. Wow, I can't believe Didio actually had some support for John. Dan Didio usually has a bad name among John Stewart fans.

Which is why none of us should automatically assume DC management loves or hates any specific character based on how those characters are handled. IMO, the bottom line is always weighted the most in these decisions.

[Götterdämmerung]

Here's a quote from Cully Hamner that I so hope isn't still typical of DC today (in regard to Green Lantern: Mosaic):

"(A)s I was told at the time, it didn’t fit with DC editorial vision (whatever that means). Sales didn’t matter, fan support didn’t matter; the first issue sold about 210,000 copies and my last issue sold about 70,000, so there was plenty of support for the book. It was marked for cancellation when issue #5 came out, and they allowed Gerry Jones a year to wrap it up, but there was no doubt that it was being cancelled because somebody upstairs just didn’t care for it. So, I had a feeling after a while of creatively being against a brick wall, and got out before the end. You pay your money, you takes your chances. That’s the biz."

I really hope not.

[The Darknight Detective]

Here's a quote from Cully Hamner that I so hope isn't still typical of DC today (in regard to Green Lantern: Mosaic):

"(A)s I was told at the time, it didn’t fit with DC editorial vision (whatever that means). Sales didn’t matter, fan support didn’t matter; the first issue sold about 210,000 copies and my last issue sold about 70,000, so there was plenty of support for the book. It was marked for cancellation when issue #5 came out, and they allowed Gerry Jones a year to wrap it up, but there was no doubt that it was being cancelled because somebody upstairs just didn’t care for it. So, I had a feeling after a while of creatively being against a brick wall, and got out before the end. You pay your money, you takes your chances. That’s the biz."

I really hope not.

We need to know what the average-selling comic was doing back in 1993 first, though, before we assume DC killed a title that was selling well. I have been trying to figure this out for months now, but haven't found pertinent data on this subject.

[Götterdämmerung]

We need to know what the average-selling comic was doing back in 1993 first, though, before we assume DC killed a title that was selling well. I have been trying to figure this out for months now, but haven't found pertinent data on this subject.

Exactly. It could just be sour grapes.

[The Darknight Detective]

Exactly. It could just be sour grapes.

It could also be quite accurate. I don't know. I do know 1993 was the height of the speculation boom ("my collection will pay for my kid's education!" ), so it was a different era.

[Ascended]

I think (may be wrong here) that people hold Didio against these ideas that never happened because they kind of show his preferences, and his preferences don't align with those of many fans. If the guy considers killing off Grasyon or Stewart, it means that his sacred cows are not the same of those characters' fans, and it gives them a sense that their favs are always at risk. (And then they look at say, Wally West and Cass Cain and think "hell, they really are at risk").

Which is funny, really, because I get the sense that Didio actually likes keeping people on their toes; it's just that he sees himself as a George RR Martin while disgruntled fans see him like a bully or something of the sort.

I think that's likely the case, actually.

Hey, my favorite character is Superman and he's been dumped on for twenty years. I get the resentment. But why make it personal when its obviously about business? It just seems short sighted to assume that someone in charge of a multi-million dollar company would screw over a viable property out of personal spite. When Didio screws up, I fully believe he's done so with the best of intentions for DC, not because he's a demon sent to ruin my comics and make my life miserable.