The pronunciation of Ra's Al Ghul?

[tib2d2]

Ok settle this. I've heard it pronounced "Rahs", and I've also heard it pronounced "Raysh"

[TheNewFiftyForum]

Here's the story: Denny O'Neill was given the name, which is actualy the name of a star in the Perseus constellation, by an editor (Julie Schwartz?) to build a character from, and together with Neal Adams, he did. Denny asked someone he knew who studied Arabic at university about the pronunciation, and got "Raysh" for an answer. However, this is wrong. In Arabic, "Ra's" is pronounced a lot more like "Rahs" than "Raysh". Apparently the student wasn't very good. Anyway, O'Neill stuck with Raysh, and that's where the confusion stems from.

[darkseidpwns]

Here's the story: Denny O'Neill was given the name, which is actualy the name of a star in the Perseus constellation, by an editor (Julie Schwartz?) to build a character from, and together with Neal Adams, he did. Denny asked someone he knew who studied Arabic at university about the pronunciation, and got "Raysh" for an answer. However, this is wrong. In Arabic, "Ra's" is pronounced a lot more like "Rahs" than "Raysh". Apparently the student wasn't very good. Anyway, O'Neill stuck with Raysh, and that's where the confusion stems from.

This,the Nolan pronunciation is correct. The other one is just a blatant refusal to rectify a mistake because it sounds cool.

[thwhtGuardian]

This,the Nolan pronunciation is correct. The other one is just a blatant refusal to rectify a mistake because it sounds cool.

It really isn't as the same word is pronounced Raysh in Hebrew and Sumerian and since he was a nomad from an unknown tribe in a land contested by asian warlords then the proper Arabic pronunciation need not be true for the story.

[darkseidpwns]

It really isn't as the same word is pronounced Raysh in Hebrew and Sumerian and since he was a nomad from an unknown tribe in a land contested by asian warlords then the proper Arabic pronunciation need not be true for the story.

As far as backstory is concerned that was obviously an attempt to cover the mistake,2 decades after his creation. If his name is supposed to translate to head of the demon (which it is) then only the Nolan version is correct. I'm not going to pretend to be a expert in linguistics or anthropology but somehow I doubt half his name is supposed to be Sumerian and half Arabic,the continuity might provide an excuse for it but the writer made a simple mistake and based on another users post here admitted to it. So like I said it was intended to be Raas or Rahz but due to a mistake it became Raysh and ever since they've been trying to make excuses instead of just rectifying it.

[thwhtGuardian]

As far as backstory is concerned that was obviously an attempt to cover the mistake,2 decades after his creation. If his name is supposed to translate to head of the demon (which it is) then only the Nolan version is correct. I'm not going to pretend to be a expert in linguistics or anthropology but somehow I doubt half his name is supposed to be Sumerian and half Arabic,the continuity might provide an excuse for it but the writer made a simple mistake and based on another users post here admitted to it. So like I said it was intended to be Raas or Rahz but due to a mistake it became Raysh and ever since they've been trying to make excuses instead of just rectifying it.

except ghul also means demon in Hebrew as well, so it's not a mish mash.

[Carabas]

It really isn't as the same word is pronounced Raysh in Hebrew and Sumerian and since he was a nomad from an unknown tribe in a land contested by asian warlords then the proper Arabic pronunciation need not be true for the story.

Backstory doesn't come into it.

Denny O'Neil says the name means Head Of The Demon in Arab. And he looked into how you properly pronounce that in arabic, and failed his research. According to Denny O'Neil you pronounce it like "head" in Arabic. Which is not how Denny thinks/thought you pronounce that.

[thwhtGuardian]

Backstory doesn't come into it.

Denny O'Neil says the name means Head Of The Demon in Arab. And he looked into how you properly pronounce that in arabic, and failed his research. According to Denny O'Neil you pronounce it like "head" in Arabic. Which is not how Denny thinks/thought you pronounce that.

With the numerous regional dialects and the fact that it is correct in Sumerian and Hebrew and means the exact same thing means it's not technically wrong.

[Thom1]

Ra's, as originally created by O'Neill, is clearly intended to be Arab. "Ra's" in Arabic means "head" and is pronounced "raaz". "Al" means "the". "Ghul" is an Arabian mythologic monster. Therefore, roughly, "Head of the Demon". "Raysh" is a mispronounciation I first heard in TAS. The only reason I can think of for this to not be more definitively cleared up is DC not wanting to be too overt about Ra's being an Arab post 9/11.

[C_Miller]

I tend to go back and forth. I probably gravitate more towards Raysh though.

[JBatmanFan05]

I go with what I prefer. And I prefer Raysh because it just sounds cooler IMHO, more rough.
Also, Ra's is NOT clearly intended to be truly Arab. If you read his origin in Birth of the Demon, it's deliberately not clear how Arabic or maybe not Ra's tribe was, we just know they happened to be in the Arabia desert when Ra's life started out. They could have their own language and pronuciations for all we know, and they could be nothing like the Arab tribes that are left around today.

As told in Birth of the Demon, Ra's al Ghul is born over six hundred years before his first appearance in Batman comics, to a tribe of desert nomads somewhere in Arabia, near a city whose inhabitants' ancestors have journeyed to the Arabian Peninsula from China. Ra's is interested in science from an early age, and abandons his tribe to live in the city, where he can conduct his scientific research. He becomes a physician and marries a woman named Sora, the love of his life.

http://batman.wikia.com/wiki/Ra's_al_Ghul

[ExodusCloak]

I go with what I prefer. And I prefer Raysh because it just sounds cooler IMHO, more rough.
Also, Ra's is NOT clearly intended to be truly Arab. If you read his origin in Birth of the Demon, it's deliberately not clear how Arabic or maybe not Ra's tribe was, we just know they happened to be in the Arabia desert when Ra's life started out. They could have their own language and pronuciations for all we know, and they could be nothing like the Arab tribes that are left around today.


http://batman.wikia.com/wiki/Ra's_al_Ghul

What's wrong with him being Arab? The intention is pretty clear.

[JBatmanFan05]

What's wrong with him being Arab? The intention is pretty clear.

I didn't say there was anything wrong with it. The intention is just not as clear IMHO as you think it is. See Birth of the Demon and things that play up their Chinese ancestry and the tribe's nomadic tendencies and lack of specificity as to details on Ra's allegedly Arab tribe that he like 99% obliterated to protect his identity.

Ra's is as much Fu Manchu inspired as anything (in look & dress & etc), so I won't just believe that its pretty clear he's Arabic when Fu Manchu was not.

What's pretty clear is that Denny wanted Ra's race/ethnicity a bit unclear and mixed. Which IMHO leaves fictional room to think Rhaz or Raysh could stand an equal chance at being right.



I myself see Ra's is some Asian/Arab hybrid character and who knows what he's actually more or less of or totally of DNAwise or what other races or cultures or whatever might be involved.

[thwhtGuardian]

Ra's, as originally created by O'Neill, is clearly intended to be Arab. "Ra's" in Arabic means "head" and is pronounced "raaz". "Al" means "the". "Ghul" is an Arabian mythologic monster. Therefore, roughly, "Head of the Demon". "Raysh" is a mispronounciation I first heard in TAS. The only reason I can think of for this to not be more definitively cleared up is DC not wanting to be too overt about Ra's being an Arab post 9/11.

It works both ways, Raysh is an ancient Hebrew and Phoenician word for head. I like Denny and the animated series so I go with Raysh.

[Maxpower00044]

It's either or. I like the way Arrow does it where the League calls him Raysh but the American characters call him Rhaz. I find it amusing knowing how divided people are on the subject.