Who is Bruce's closest friend (excluding Alfred)?

[Mia]

I don't really think of the modern Bruce Wayne as having friends in the traditional sense, it's part of his emotional damage. T

Bruce is an introvert, It's highly unlikely that he would have any close friends. But I agree with everyone here who mentioned Jim Gordon. Dick is little brother and Alfred is more along the lines of a surrogate father. I am his girlfriend if anyone cares .

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

If you have been reading Batman, the Joker.

LOL. On a certain level, that might actually be true.

But if we're talking just actual friends, I'd say Clark. I mean, that's a famous bromance right there. So much so that when they fight, they make a whole movie about it.

[Kurtzberg]

Alfred is more like family too, huge father figure, so I'm not sure how helpful this family vs friends distinction (whereby a spouse or blood or de facto family can't definitionally be your closest friend) is. Friend or family, whatever you think of him as, I think Bruce is second closest to Dick. Clark if you're really excluding people Bruce lives/has lived with (whether considered friend or family).

I think my hesitancy about Bruce's family as his friends isn't necessarily about a friends v family distinction or that family can't be your closest friend, I'm not of that mind. It's more about the power dynamics involved in those family relationships specific to Bruce. Bruce is quick to exploit the fact he's in charge, he's the boss and reinforce that first and foremost it seems these are work relationships. These people work for him or with him and things have to be his way or they are excommunicated, that's not really a friendship. Well, it's a kind of friendship, but it's incredibly warped.
Alfred displeases him, you're fired and get out of my house/cave, which is slightly understandable but really cold as Alfred while a father figure, is still technically an employee.
Dick displeases him, he's fired and get out of the house/cave, which is not as understandable as he isn't an employee but a ward/adopted son.
It extends to those outside his family too:
Clark displeases him, stay the hell out of Gotham, even though you could help save peoples lives because I have to plot in my cave to take you out, you creepy alien threat.
Sometimes he'll course correct when he's pushed too far, come with smiles and hugs, handshakes and I've learned my lessons, but... Those just seem disingenuous and aimed at getting back to the mission working at peak efficiency. Bruce can apologize over and over for being manipulative and cold, treating those close to him like tools instead of humans but he just keeps doing it over and over. Though some of this is a problem created by writers, the medium and cyclical nature of the storytelling where you have a character that can never really grow. Some of it we have to digest and that's why the Bruce is a psycho narrative exists at all, what extent you accept it that depends on the individual and how you digest the narrative.

[JBatmanFan05]

I think my hesitancy about Bruce's family as his friends isn't necessarily about a friends v family distinction or that family can't be your closest friend, I'm not of that mind. It's more about the power dynamics involved in those family relationships specific to Bruce. Bruce is quick to exploit the fact he's in charge, he's the boss and reinforce that first and foremost it seems these are work relationships. These people work for him or with him and things have to be his way or they are excommunicated, that's not really a friendship. Well, it's a kind of friendship, but it's incredibly warped.
Alfred displeases him, you're fired and get out of my house/cave, which is slightly understandable but really cold as Alfred while a father figure, is still technically an employee.
Dick displeases him, he's fired and get out of the house/cave, which is not as understandable as he isn't an employee but a ward/adopted son.
It extends to those outside his family too:
Clark displeases him, stay the hell out of Gotham, even though you could help save peoples lives because I have to plot in my cave to take you out, you creepy alien threat.
Sometimes he'll course correct when he's pushed too far, come with smiles and hugs, handshakes and I've learned my lessons, but... Those just seem disingenuous and aimed at getting back to the mission working at peak efficiency. Bruce can apologize over and over for being manipulative and cold, treating those close to him like tools instead of humans but he just keeps doing it over and over. Though some of this is a problem created by writers, the medium and cyclical nature of the storytelling where you have a character that can never really grow. Some of it we have to digest and that's why the Bruce is a psycho narrative exists at all, what extent you accept it that depends on the individual and how you digest the narrative.

You make some really good points to digest when considering this thread's question. But I get the sense you're really perhaps speaking of a particular Batman, say maybe Snyder's Batman, where the obsession and emotionally damaged stuff (and the cold manipulative stuff) is amped up a bit (relative to certain writers like Bronze Age writers or Morrison who are more warm and relationshippy (new word) with Batman and/or more zen with him).

And there's lots of friendships in real life that I think people would argue are quite genuine, but also involve some power dynamic (that isn't equal, how often are things so very equal in life?). Some people really can be best friends with their boss (or a higher ranked person) I think, where that friendship extends far from the office (but of course those office roles are not outta the equation).

I think too you underestimate how real close friends can fight and still be very real close friends (assuming the fight eventually ends).


I think those closest to Bruce (which is not all of the Batfam perhaps) understand the mission (something they've all signed up for) involves structure/chain of command and love and trust Bruce for that leader role, even when the chain of command turns on them for a period of time (due to all the stress and stakes involved). I think they all know that if they're fighting, it will get fixed in time, because they're that close. These are people who have literally saved each other's lives, so I imagine a trust & closeness that runs deep and is nearly unbreakable, even in times of friction and distance.

[Kurtzberg]

You make some really good points to digest when considering this thread's question. But I get the sense you're really perhaps speaking of a particular Batman, say maybe Snyder's Batman, where the obsession and emotionally damaged stuff (and the cold manipulative stuff) is amped up a bit (relative to certain writers like Bronze Age writers or Morrison who are more warm and relationshippy (new word) with Batman and/or more zen with him).

And there's lots of friendships in real life that I think people would argue are quite genuine, but also involve some power dynamic (that isn't equal, how often are things so very equal in life?). Some people really can be best friends with their boss (or a higher ranked person) I think, where that friendship extends far from the office (but of course those office roles are not outta the equation).

I think too you underestimate how real close friends can fight and still be very real close friends (assuming the fight eventually ends).

I may come off speaking to a certain Batman like Snyder's, but I think I'm speaking to many versions of Batman, enough that it can to seen as THE modern Batman, or at least the Batman that is most prevalent for most people's experience at this point.
Even ones like Morrison's Batman, who stood at his son's grave (the son who he at one point planned to ship back to his psychotic mother) and told Alfred he should take a vacation and when this was over they would talk about Alfred's future.
There is Brubaker's Batman of the Bruce Wayne:Murderer/Fugitive era who straight up told Dick there was no Bruce Wayne and only the mission and to get in line and accept it, or Willingham's man in War Games who cast aside Stephanie after using her as a pawn to manipulate Tim back into the Robin suit and banished Leslie from America.
Mark Waid's Batman who created the contingency plans for the JLA, Miller's at times monstrous goddamn Batman, or Max Allan Collins' Bruce who fired Dick. Writer after writer. Dini's Bruce in the DCAU and the attached comics who was left alone and miserable by the time Terry came along. Rucka and Johns with the satellite to spy on his fellow heroes.
I can go on and on, but there are these moments that get repeated over and over that at this point that it's not just one man's Batman or Bruce. It's oft repeated enough that one could peg the modern Bruce Wayne, who just repeatedly and willfully does this stuff to those around him, as a controlling, domineering @$$hole to the point of being toxic.
Every relationship has power dynamics, every single human interaction is steeped in power dynamics, and people can have good relationships when where power dynamics aren't a prohibitive issue. This isn't a binary issue, where people with disparate power can't have healthy interactions and relationships and people with comparative power can. Bruce just happens to exploit them repeatedly and blatantly in unhealthy ways that hurt the people around him, and ultimately himself as well.
But as I said, some of this is a problem of the writer and medium, and not necessarily the character entirely. Bruce will never truly grow as a person, he can't.

[Lightning Rider]

Not speaking on any specific continuity but on overall storytelling history, I think it has to be Clark. Alfred and Dick are like family and aren't on equal footing with him, as was mentioned. But Clark is someone outside of that circle he can trust with his whole identity (which is why Clark has the edge over Jim). I think he trusts him more than anybody else to do the right thing, respects him more than anybody else, and can be challenged by him more than anyone else.

I don't think they have a very fruitful, enjoyable, all-encompassing friendship. But truth be told, Bruce doesn't have anyone like that. He has his family group. But people his own age whose company he enjoys and actively seeks out? They don't exist. But when Bruce needs a friend, Clark is always there. And I believe Batman would do anything for Superman.

Who else would he carry the coffin in costume for?



Who else would mourn Batman like this, outside of his father figure and those he adoptively fathered?




"The Trust" by Alex Ross illustrates the importance of their relationship well. The mutual confidence in them is larger than life here. And the ending statement is more than simply reverence for heroism; it has a warmth that would only befit a beloved friend.

http://imgur.com/a/HkQtW

[oasis1313]

I can't see Bruce Wayne as the kind of guy who has best buddies. He's not friendly by nature and doesn't really relate to anyone except himself; he's mostly a jerk to his family. Part of his success is that he is a loner and he isn't a likable person. Any sort of hale-fellow-well-met act he puts on is just that--nothing but an act. He'd rather be by himself and celebrate his alphahood.

[Mia]

I may come off speaking to a certain Batman like Snyder's, but I think I'm speaking to many versions of Batman, enough that it can to seen as THE modern Batman, or at least the Batman that is most prevalent for most people's experience at this point.
Even ones like Morrison's Batman, who stood at his son's grave (the son who he at one point planned to ship back to his psychotic mother) and told Alfred he should take a vacation and when this was over they would talk about Alfred's future.
There is Brubaker's Batman of the Bruce Wayne:Murderer/Fugitive era who straight up told Dick there was no Bruce Wayne and only the mission and to get in line and accept it, or Willingham's man in War Games who cast aside Stephanie after using her as a pawn to manipulate Tim back into the Robin suit and banished Leslie from America.
Mark Waid's Batman who created the contingency plans for the JLA, Miller's at times monstrous goddamn Batman, or Max Allan Collins' Bruce who fired Dick. Writer after writer. Dini's Bruce in the DCAU and the attached comics who was left alone and miserable by the time Terry came along. Rucka and Johns with the satellite to spy on his fellow heroes.
I can go on and on, but there are these moments that get repeated over and over that at this point that it's not just one man's Batman or Bruce. It's oft repeated enough that one could peg the modern Bruce Wayne, who just repeatedly and willfully does this stuff to those around him, as a controlling, domineering @$$hole to the point of being toxic.
Every relationship has power dynamics, every single human interaction is steeped in power dynamics, and people can have good relationships when where power dynamics aren't a prohibitive issue. This isn't a binary issue, where people with disparate power can't have healthy interactions and relationships and people with comparative power can. Bruce just happens to exploit them repeatedly and blatantly in unhealthy ways that hurt the people around him, and ultimately himself as well.
But as I said, some of this is a problem of the writer and medium, and not necessarily the character entirely. Bruce will never truly grow as a person, he can't.

Your analysis is reflective of the book. But I find, with the exception of the stuff from Rucka & Waid. To be more reflective of the writer than the character. There are far, far too many writers in the industry who seem to confuse anger with power and strength. I will even go so as far to say that it really isn''t anger so much as anger brought on as a result of fear and insecurity. And therefore they transfer that anger onto the character. It's why I never could get into Snyder's Batman, because his Batman came more across as a Midnighter/Punisher type goon (with an expense account) than a brilliant strategist. Batman for all rights should be a focused and centered person. Anyone with enough life experience and the kind of responsibility that Bruce Wayne/Batman has knows that being angry solves nothing and clouds ones thinking.

[Kurtzberg]

Your analysis is reflective of the book. But I find, with the exception of the stuff from Rucka & Waid. To be more reflective of the writer than the character.

You can say the work is more reflective of the writer than the character, but with writer after writer in a similar vein, at what point is it not the character for this age? After a certain point, is a character not what he does over and over? Not what the audience wants him to be or what he used to do. The character is what he is, not what he should or could be.
I'm not saying I like it, but at some point the text tells us Batman is less a calm, brilliant strategist/detective but more an emotionally stunted angry boy with his ridiculous toys, punching his way out of problems.
I'm also not saying the other Batman doesn't exist, he'll always exist, but in the modern age the Batman we have now is not that Batman.