DC Animated Original Movies Discussion

[Heeroyuy_Batman]

Little point in doing COIE if you're not going to go big (you might as well go home).

Anyway, hypothetically, assuming they are bringing back legacy character, what would your wishlist for character returns be? Either cameos or extended parts.

Here are a few off the top of my head:

Batman Beyond/Terry McGuiness: It really should have been DCAU Batman, but since the great Kevin Conroy is sadly no longer among us, I think the best alternative would be to showcase his successor. I'd love to see Terry interact with the Tomorrowverse Batman.

DCAU Superman: I think he might be a great fit for the 'Earth 2 Superman' role. A bit torn on whether it should be him from the Beyond timeline, or a 'present-day' version. (Even if its the Beyond version, would love him to don some take on the classic red and blue suit...maybe the Kingdom Come or Earth 2 versions?)

Fleischer Superman: Another option for the 'Earth 2 Superman' role. A bit skeptical about this one since obviously he'd need to be recast. A variation here could be retroactively making the Tomorrowverse Earth 2 Superman into a take on the 'Fleischer Superman', but that could be divisive.

DCAU Flash/Wally West: I kinda want him back, but I'm worried they might turn him into the Flash who dies in the Crisis. So...mixed feelings here.

Crime Syndicate of America: The version from Crisis on Two Earths specifically. It would also provide us with an Alex Luthor - the son of that movie's Luthor. Sadly, Owlman would be dead...but anyway, the point is that all of them are going to die.

Fleischer Superman and Earth-F was wiped out in the Arrowverse Crisis event comic spinoff Crisis on Infinite Earths-Paragons Rising. So, unless Earth-F was restored in the new Arrowverse multiverse, we shouldn't be seeing Fleischer Superman. Then again, considering there are multiple multiverses in the comics, perhaps there's another Fleischer Earth in the Tomorrowverse's multiverse.

[Frontier]

Fleischer Superman and Earth-F was wiped out in the Arrowverse Crisis event comic spinoff Crisis on Infinite Earths-Paragons Rising. So, unless Earth-F was restored in the new Arrowverse multiverse, we shouldn't be seeing Fleischer Superman. Then again, considering there are multiple multiverses in the comics, perhaps there's another Fleischer Earth in the Tomorrowverse's multiverse.

I think the implication is pretty much every Earth was restored outside a few instances where Earth-2 was reformatted into the JSA Earth.

[Vakanai]

It's funny how there's some subtle (or not so subtle) teasing of Crisis in the last set of Showcase shorts and not even just in House of Mystery.

On the one hand I don't think it would be a true animated Crisis without involving all the other popular DC animated continuities yet at the same time that's a lot to live up to and it might be cheaper if they just go with original Elseworlds or Earths they come up with.

Best option - outside of Tomorrow-verse don't use any other animated prior continuities, just adapt COIE more or less as it was and use the versions of characters from that story.
Partially it'd make it a more faithful adaptation, and partly it would keep other animated versions that are better and superior to anything this crew has ever done out of their hands.
A win/win if you will.

[Vakanai]

Fleischer Superman and Earth-F was wiped out in the Arrowverse Crisis event comic spinoff Crisis on Infinite Earths-Paragons Rising. So, unless Earth-F was restored in the new Arrowverse multiverse, we shouldn't be seeing Fleischer Superman. Then again, considering there are multiple multiverses in the comics, perhaps there's another Fleischer Earth in the Tomorrowverse's multiverse.

I think the implication is pretty much every Earth was restored outside a few instances where Earth-2 was reformatted into the JSA Earth.

I think the real implications is that no one involved should act like a spin-off comic of an Arrow-verse event is any kind of canon for anything any other part of DC wants to do.

[Phoenixx9]

Little point in doing COIE if you're not going to go big (you might as well go home).

Anyway, hypothetically, assuming they are bringing back legacy character, what would your wishlist for character returns be? Either cameos or extended parts.

Here are a few off the top of my head:

Batman Beyond/Terry McGuiness: It really should have been DCAU Batman, but since the great Kevin Conroy is sadly no longer among us, I think the best alternative would be to showcase his successor. I'd love to see Terry interact with the Tomorrowverse Batman.

DCAU Superman: I think he might be a great fit for the 'Earth 2 Superman' role. A bit torn on whether it should be him from the Beyond timeline, or a 'present-day' version. (Even if its the Beyond version, would love him to don some take on the classic red and blue suit...maybe the Kingdom Come or Earth 2 versions?)

Fleischer Superman: Another option for the 'Earth 2 Superman' role. A bit skeptical about this one since obviously he'd need to be recast. A variation here could be retroactively making the Tomorrowverse Earth 2 Superman into a take on the 'Fleischer Superman', but that could be divisive.

DCAU Flash/Wally West: I kinda want him back, but I'm worried they might turn him into the Flash who dies in the Crisis. So...mixed feelings here.

Crime Syndicate of America: The version from Crisis on Two Earths specifically. It would also provide us with an Alex Luthor - the son of that movie's Luthor. Sadly, Owlman would be dead...but anyway, the point is that all of them are going to die.

For me, definitely the Crime Syndicate of America, but with more of the comics look than the previous animated looks.

[Frontier]

Best option - outside of Tomorrow-verse don't use any other animated prior continuities, just adapt COIE more or less as it was and use the versions of characters from that story.
Partially it'd make it a more faithful adaptation, and partly it would keep other animated versions that are better and superior to anything this crew has ever done out of their hands.
A win/win if you will.

But in the case of CoIE at least a lot of those Earths had some semblance of familiarity with the audiences before they roped them into the story, which was kind of the point, so I'm not sure if introducing a bunch of random Elseworlds in one film will work as well even if then they don't have the expectations of a bunch of popular animated continuities and characters bearing down on it.

I think the real implications is that no one involved should act like a spin-off comic of an Arrow-verse event is any kind of canon for anything any other part of DC wants to do.

But in the cosmology of the DC media multiverse, it's all connected .

[Vakanai]

But in the case of CoIE at least a lot of those Earths had some semblance of familiarity with the audiences before they roped them into the story, which was kind of the point, so I'm not sure if introducing a bunch of random Elseworlds in one film will work as well even if then they don't have the expectations of a bunch of popular animated continuities and characters bearing down on it.

Eh, this isn't going to be one of the better movies out there and I think we both know that. Even if subjectively you enjoy that, I think objectively you know this is going to be "meh" to "eh it's alright" for most audiences. Familiarity isn't going to save this, it's not going to be this big epic awesome showing with heartwarming nostalgic call backs - this isn't a Spider-Man No Way Home situation. We have to accept what this film will be, not the dream movie we wish it was. And in the movie we're going to get, I don't want them taking better DC properties and crapping on them. Which is kinda best case scenario if we're being honest here. Don't expect greatness where greatness has never ever been shown before. If they're going to **** out a COIE movie, then let that **** of theirs not taint the greater things from DC's animated history.

But in the cosmology of the DC media multiverse, it's all connected .

Whatever you need to tell yourself.

[Buried Alien]

Are there any legal limitations for DC to use the 1940s-1980s animated adaptations in a COIE movie?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Refrax5]

The original COIE had impact because it wiped out fifty previous years of continuity. To match that scope, DC would have to dig all the way back to the 1940s Fleischer SUPERMAN cartoons, and even revive the old Filmation and Hanna Barbera animated universes. Can you imagine the Superfriends being among the first to fall to the antimatter wave?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Yeah, but that's my point. I'm not enamored of that happening to a bunch of other favorites in an animated movie. One of my least favorite things about Spider-Verse was basically seeing all your old favorites come back to get slaughtered.

DC had a need to do it in the comics to move their line forward as they felt it had gotten to unwieldy and confusing. I don't think the animated stuff has that same problem. The TV version of COIE managed to restore the multiverse and at least some of the characters because the showrunners felt they didn't really have the right to destroy somebody else's characters and work, which I think is probably a more respectful and reverent approach.

As much as I like the original COIE, I feel like if you can't tell a good story without slaughtering a ton of characters, it's probably not a great story. I get that the deaths of Flash and Supergirl are probably necessary, but I just don't really enjoy watching beloved characters get massacred.

[Frontier]

Eh, this isn't going to be one of the better movies out there and I think we both know that. Even if subjectively you enjoy that, I think objectively you know this is going to be "meh" to "eh it's alright" for most audiences. Familiarity isn't going to save this, it's not going to be this big epic awesome showing with heartwarming nostalgic call backs - this isn't a Spider-Man No Way Home situation. We have to accept what this film will be, not the dream movie we wish it was. And in the movie we're going to get, I don't want them taking better DC properties and crapping on them. Which is kinda best case scenario if we're being honest here. Don't expect greatness where greatness has never ever been shown before. If they're going to **** out a COIE movie, then let that **** of theirs not taint the greater things from DC's animated history.

I can't really know for sure until we see more of what they have brewing, just that using a title like "Crisis on Infinite Earths" carries a lot of expectations, whether they can fulfill it or plan to is the big question.

I very much doubt they would "crap" on whatever properties they end up including.

Whatever you need to tell yourself.

It all works out in the end .

[Vakanai]

I can't really know for sure until we see more of what they have brewing, just that using a title like "Crisis on Infinite Earths" carries a lot of expectations, whether they can fulfill it or plan to is the big question.

You can really know for sure - 7 movies in you can know if they have quality in them or not, and for sure they've shown us pretty conclusively that they don't. Again, why assume greatness where none is shown?

As for using a title like "Crisis on Infinite Earths" the only expectation it should and does carry is that they're doing an adaptation of that story. No reason to assume they'll drag down better properties into their shittier property to do that adaptation, and there's really no reason to do so other than trying to cash in on the good feelings and nostalgia fans have for these better animated properties.


For whatever it's worth, I believe that they are just shitty enough to do it, I believe you are right, I believe that they will use other properties for this, that we will see old animated favorites return. Which means I also believe that we will see this turn into a mediocre if not outright awful movie where the better animated renditions of DC heroes from series past will get shat on to prop up their inferior Tomorrow-verse versions, and even that propping up won't be done well.

Again you might enjoy it, you might not think that's what they did, but we've often seen the same films and deeply disagreed on their quality and what was done with them before. I strongly suspect this will be another one of those times. I don't want to be right, I'd love to be wrong, but this crew has given me zero reasons to believe they can pull this off and many, many, many reasons to doubt them. So yeah, I believe you are right, I believe they will feel obligated to do what you want them to do, but I believe that I am also right and that it's going to be a very bad thing. With their own takes at least they couldn't piss me of, this way they probably will.

You know what, **** it, if I see a version of a character I like in a trailer I'm just not going to watch this. What'd be the fucking point? Thanks for talking me out of viewing this one, even if that wasn't what you were trying to do.

I very much doubt they would "crap" on whatever properties they end up including.

Really? Because they've had no problem crapping on Aquaman, The Long Halloween, Hal Jordan, and Mon-El so far. I feel like when it comes to crapping on characters and stories they've shown no craps given, so why assume they'd give a crap about not crapping on better properties?

Crap is just what they do. They can't not crap, that'd be going against their natures. Best to assume they'll crap again and just plan accordingly than do nothing and hope this'll be the first time they don't crap it up.

It all works out in the end .

Does it though?

[bat39]

This isn't aimed at your post, but I'm starting to get really tired of the multiverse being used as a vehicle for nostalgia-baiting cameos and cross-media references.

The multiverse is about encountering different versions of the same character, not different actors playing roughly the same mainstream version of a character. Takes me right out of the experience and squanders golden opportunities.

No offence, but that's far from some kind of universal view on the purpose of Multiverses. Historically, the Multiverse has been used for both purposes. DC first started using the Multiverse to bring back previous mainstream versions of their characters - i.e. the JSA and Golden Age heroes in general.

Sometimes these stories are successful. Sometimes they aren't. The best ones are usually those that tell a meaningful story beyond just the nostalgia bait (which I believe Spider-Man No Way Home did).

Anyway, if they faithfully follow COIE to the letter of the original story, then there aren't going to be that many familiar doppelgangers IIRC. The Earth 2 Superman is the major one. And Superboy-Prime if they choose to include him (which I doubt), and he's arguably not a 'mainstream' take. But I do think they will pepper in cameos from past properties to fill out the Multiverse a bit.

I also think the 'Earth 2 Superman', or whoever plays that role, will have a lot to distinguish him from the young Tomorrowverse Superman (who will likely have the 'Earth 1' role) - an older, mature take on the character who will likely be depicted as being married to Lois already. (The Arrowverse did a pretty good job distinguishing Brandon Routh's Superman from the Tyler Hoechlin version, by incorporating aspects of Kingdom Come).

[Heeroyuy_Batman]

Really? Because they've had no problem crapping on Aquaman, The Long Halloween, Hal Jordan, and Mon-El so far. I feel like when it comes to crapping on characters and stories they've shown no craps given, so why assume they'd give a crap about not crapping on better properties?

Crap is just what they do. They can't not crap, that'd be going against their natures. Best to assume they'll crap again and just plan accordingly than do nothing and hope this'll be the first time they don't crap it up.

I understand your problems with the Tomorowverse films and what has been done to characters like Earth-2 Aquaman, Hal Jordan, and Mon-el and how Long Halloween was changed. You are right to be concerned about the new Crisis. Though, the thought has occurred to me what if these things are actually foreshadowing that something evil is affecting this universe as a lead up to the Crisis movie. Psycho Pirate controlling Earth-2 Aquaman seems to fit this idea and Crisis itself. If this idea is so and they actually make this a point in the Crisis movie, maybe it won't be too bad.

[Frontier]

You can really know for sure - 7 movies in you can know if they have quality in them or not, and for sure they've shown us pretty conclusively that they don't. Again, why assume greatness where none is shown?

As for using a title like "Crisis on Infinite Earths" the only expectation it should and does carry is that they're doing an adaptation of that story. No reason to assume they'll drag down better properties into their shittier property to do that adaptation, and there's really no reason to do so other than trying to cash in on the good feelings and nostalgia fans have for these better animated properties.


For whatever it's worth, I believe that they are just shitty enough to do it, I believe you are right, I believe that they will use other properties for this, that we will see old animated favorites return. Which means I also believe that we will see this turn into a mediocre if not outright awful movie where the better animated renditions of DC heroes from series past will get shat on to prop up their inferior Tomorrow-verse versions, and even that propping up won't be done well.

Again you might enjoy it, you might not think that's what they did, but we've often seen the same films and deeply disagreed on their quality and what was done with them before. I strongly suspect this will be another one of those times. I don't want to be right, I'd love to be wrong, but this crew has given me zero reasons to believe they can pull this off and many, many, many reasons to doubt them. So yeah, I believe you are right, I believe they will feel obligated to do what you want them to do, but I believe that I am also right and that it's going to be a very bad thing. With their own takes at least they couldn't piss me of, this way they probably will.

You know what, **** it, if I see a version of a character I like in a trailer I'm just not going to watch this. What'd be the fucking point? Thanks for talking me out of viewing this one, even if that wasn't what you were trying to do.

I mean, there's stuff I like/appreciate about the Tomorrow-verse even if I think there's been issues with execution or in use of certain characters so that's where I'm coming from with it, and I feel like adapting a story like Crisis carries certain connotations and expectations like it did for the TV Crisis. I don't think that makes them "shitty."

Really? Because they've had no problem crapping on Aquaman, The Long Halloween, Hal Jordan, and Mon-El so far. I feel like when it comes to crapping on characters and stories they've shown no craps given, so why assume they'd give a crap about not crapping on better properties?

Crap is just what they do. They can't not crap, that'd be going against their natures. Best to assume they'll crap again and just plan accordingly than do nothing and hope this'll be the first time they don't crap it up.

Hal and Mon-El I'll grant you. At least Aquaman had the excuse he was brainwashed. Although for fans of just John Stewart and Supergirl/Brainiac 5, I guess they were happy .

(Wonder Woman fans, on the other hand...)

They definitely changed the ending and that had it's problems but overall I don't think they ruined LH but I know we both disagree on that.

Does it though?

Spectre Ollie more or less reset the multiverse as it was, so yeah?

[Lightning Rider]

No offence, but that's far from some kind of universal view on the purpose of Multiverses. Historically, the Multiverse has been used for both purposes. DC first started using the Multiverse to bring back previous mainstream versions of their characters - i.e. the JSA and Golden Age heroes in general.

Sometimes these stories are successful. Sometimes they aren't. The best ones are usually those that tell a meaningful story beyond just the nostalgia bait (which I believe Spider-Man No Way Home did).

Right, but clearly the characters were different enough that it justified the use of the multiverse. Barry meeting Jay, the JSA and the JLA teaming up, is quite different to having a bunch of different actors or voice actors play the same mainstream version of the character.

And I liked No Way Home, it had a strong story, but I don't need to see that gimmick rehashed. I thought the Flash's cameos were a little weird and took me out of the movie. It's too meta for me.