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  1. #856
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    I think there’s a limit. And for me this movie crosses that limit. Any movie where Captain Marvel gets his leg bloodily ripped off has misused the character. I’m not asking you to have the same limit.

    More often the issue is the depiction and handling of the subject matter, rather than the subject matter itself. The new DuckTales cartoon had one of its cartoon duck characters have to amputate their own leg. The show treats the loss of a limb far more maturely and sensitivity than this movie.
    Ducktales isn't aimed at the same audience. And it's fine that you have different limits and acknowledge that other peoples limits differ - doesn't mean when a story goes past your limits for what can happen in a story with a character that they misused that character. Just means you should avoid such stories for yourself.

  2. #857
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    Just a reminder, DON'T GIVE THEM ANY IDEAS! An R-rated Muppets? Given recent ominous trends in doing...just that...with other children's TV shows, yeah, please stop mentioning Muppets...they MIGHT be listening! I mean man, pretty soon they'll have Big Bird (yeah, I know it's Sesame Street, but go with it), as a serial killer pursued by detective Cookie Monster, with decapitations galore. Wait...ignore that, rights holders to Sesame Street! Pretend you didn't see that...
    What trends? I can't think of anything involved in making children's shows R-rated.

  3. #858
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    What trends? I can't think of anything involved in making children's shows R-rated.
    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9831136/

  4. #859
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Superman and Doomsday beat each other pretty viciously in Death of Superman and I loved that movie because he was in character.

    I don't mind some violence once in a while as long as my favorites are done right. Superman is still Superman in the darkest universe. The problem is when he is unrecognizable. I think he is complex enough as a character that can be adapted for a more adult audience as well as for kids.

  5. #860
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    I totally forgot this movie was a thing - kinda like how most people forgot the ip/property was a thing. One R Rated reboot of a property that hasn't seen use in decades is hardly a trend.

  6. #861
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I totally forgot this movie was a thing - kinda like how most people forgot the ip/property was a thing. One R Rated reboot of a property that hasn't seen use in decades is hardly a trend.
    Well, the original Battlestar Galactica was sort of a kid's show, while the reboot, while not R rated, was as grim and dark as it could get for TV at that time. Streaming of course makes it possible to do much more.

  7. #862
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    Well, the original Battlestar Galactica was sort of a kid's show, while the reboot, while not R rated, was as grim and dark as it could get for TV at that time. Streaming of course makes it possible to do much more.
    That's still a property that hadn't seen use in decades up til that point. I wouldn't worry about a kid's franchise that's not all but forgotten going R any time soon.

  8. #863
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    That's still a property that hadn't seen use in decades up til that point. I wouldn't worry about a kid's franchise that's not all but forgotten going R any time soon.
    I look forward to the My Little Pony/Hostel mash-up.

  9. #864
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    JLD2 was incredible! Talk about brutal.

    The film makers were free to just go nuts and just do whatever. This is the kind of thing Elseworlds should be used for. Never thought I'd get to see a DC animated movie like this or even a live action. This gave me everything that I didn't even know I wanted.

    I've rewatched it 4 times and each time there's something I missed to be discovered. A fitting farewell

  10. #865
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Ducktales isn't aimed at the same audience. And it's fine that you have different limits and acknowledge that other peoples limits differ - doesn't mean when a story goes past your limits for what can happen in a story with a character that they misused that character. Just means you should avoid such stories for yourself.
    I never said you had to share my tastes or opinions. This whole thread is about discussing our opinions on these films. To me, there are limits on the kind of content that should be done with Superman. For you there are limits on the kind of content that should be done with The Muppets. Frankly, I'm almost certain there are limits on what you would consider acceptable in a Superman story too.

  11. #866
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son of Krypton View Post
    Does that count? 🤣

    People watched this?

  12. #867
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    I look forward to the My Little Pony/Hostel mash-up.
    Again, would have to be a property fallen well into disuse. After the wide success, popularity, and years of MLP:FiM I'd expect Hostel to go PG before MLP goes R.
    If 30/40 years pass without another MLP thing though, it could happen, and that far away from now who would be around to complain?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    I never said you had to share my tastes or opinions. This whole thread is about discussing our opinions on these films.
    Fair enough.

    To me, there are limits on the kind of content that should be done with Superman. For you there are limits on the kind of content that should be done with The Muppets. Frankly, I'm almost certain there are limits on what you would consider acceptable in a Superman story too.
    There are - but the limits I have on Superman are purely on what he should be allowed to do in those stories, not on the nature of what stories he should be allowed in. Superman should never slaughter innocents, should never rob a bank unless it's a under mind control/hypnosis thing. Basically Superman shouldn't be evil unless it's a rare Elseworlds deal, and even then it shouldn't be pushed so hard it reaches almost as widespread acceptance as heroic Superman (aka I'm looking at you Injustice Superman). But outside of what Supes should do, I have nothing about what sorts of stories he should be in. Comedy, action, horror, kid friendly, adult, hell even porn, I don't care. I'll just read and watch the stories that interest me, ignore the rest, and hope by and large most things are a success.

    And truth be told my limits aren't that set in stone for the Muppets either - I actually kind of liked The Happy Time Murders or whatever that puppet movie was and wouldn't have been upset if they had actually used the Muppets. Just saying.

  13. #868
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silly View Post
    People watched this?
    Nah, it bombed at the BO.

  14. #869
    Astonishing Member Doctor Know's Avatar
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    Apokolips War is out on disc today.


    Destination Adaptation - Reimagination

    How do the animated movies compare to their comic adaptations?


    Superman Doomsday (2007) + Death of Superman + Reign of the Supermen vs The comic arcs of the same name.
    The comic is superior to both animated adaptations, but the recent DoS and RoS did a worthy job of adapting these stories.


    Wonder Woman (2009) vs Wonder Woman Gods and Mortals (George Perez's first arc)
    Perez is king. Since the DCEU film also adapted this story, the animated film is just okay.


    Superman Batman Public Enemies vs Comic
    A fair adaptation. The movie doesn't go as off the walls as the comic and that's my only issue.


    Superman Batman Apocalypse vs Kara Zor-El Saga
    Neither are that great. I don't know why neither versions worked for me.


    Batman Under the Red Hood vs Batman Under the Hood

    The movie improves a lot of issues from the comic. Basically streamlining the details, removing Superboy Prime. The New 52 retelling followed this model as well.


    All Star Superman vs Comic
    The 90 minute movie could never capture all the great things about this comic. Good faith effort though.


    Superman vs The Elite vs What's So Funny About Truth Justice And the American Way
    Neither are great, but the movie does a lot better in correcting the Elite. They're more than Strawmen Joe Kelly set up for Supes to knock down.


    Batman Year One vs Comic
    Big meh, both sides. I guess it was a slow year and they needed something with Batman's name to print money on.


    Batman The Dark Knight Returns vs Comic
    Both are excellent. The movie went big by making the story two parts to flesh everything out.


    Superman: Unbound vs Superman Brainiac
    There isn't much to Johns' rendition to Brainiac in the comic. But seeing it adapted animated wasn't bad. DCAU Brainiac from Superman TAS and LOSH TAS still has this one beat by a lot.


    Son of Batman vs Batman and Son
    I thought this was a fair adaptation. A lot of the changes from the comic inflate how "awesome" Damian is right away. Where Morisson took 5 years too build up Damian as a Robin and a fighter.


    Batman vs Robin vs Court of Owls
    The comic was better. The movie leans more on the action and less on the clandestine nature of the Court of Owls.


    Batman The Killing Joke vs Comic
    Both are wretched. What can I say? Best thing about both is they gave us the gentleman thief, costumed persona The Red Hood.


    Batman Gotham by Gaslight vs Comic
    I haven't read the comic of this. I did like the movie however.



    Batman Hush vs Comic
    Both of these are exercises in how to cram as much mythos and lore into one story. I didn't have a bad time with the movie. I feel the movie missed out on doing some things the comic did. For the sake of a twist ending. Good twist, but it only works once. Lack of Jason Todd in these New 52 movies is supremely felt here.


    Justice League the New Frontier vs Comic
    Both are excellent. The movie streamlines the comic story to a manageable length. Capturing Darwyn Cooke's style in motion was a delight.


    Justice League Crisis on Two Earths vs JLA Earth-2
    This was a fun ride. Considering it's our only ride with the Crime Syndicate. With the New 52 movie verse ending, we'll never see a Forever Evil type story. The only thing I didn't like was how the movie changes the ending of the comic. On Earth 2̶ 3, evil always wins.


    Justice League Doom vs JLA Tower of Babel
    This reimagining of the Tower of Babel worked really well for me. The substation of the founding League members (Hal and Barry who weren't in Tower of Babel) and the ways Batman's plans were changed to suit the movie (some borrowed from Jim Kruger's Justice and others played out instead of simulated like in the comic) really helped add a dynamic danger to the threats from the League by Batman.


    Justice League Flashpoint Paradox vs Flashpoint
    Barry Allen's character and the voice actor are the best things about this movie. Flashpoint is a story that has issues. As an adaptation, I give it a thumbs up.


    Justice League War vs New 52 JL Origins
    Not the best and not the worst. Paint by numbers both ways around.


    Justice League Throne of Atlantis - New 52 comic

    The DCEU movie Aquaman and the comic are LEAGUES better than the animated movie.


    Justice League Gods and Monsters vs Comic
    An interesting parallel universe from the mind of Bruce Timm. Having read the comic and seen the movie, you can't help but think about the possibilities. Too bad, Timm kills off most of the notable and supporting league members.


    Justice League vs Teen Titans vs Terror of Trigon
    I thought this was pretty okay. I grew up with the NTT and seeing the Titans getting any adaptations makes me happy. Damian was scaled properly and used responsibly. Definitely saw room for improvement. Which we did get.


    Teen Titans Judas Contract vs Comic
    Like the Phoenix Saga on the corresponding X-Men. Judas Contract has been done to death. This story combining Titans, Deathstroke, Terra and the Church of Brother Blood was a stroke of ingenuity. Son of the Bat God doesn't steal the show, but it's the Titans that triumph in the end.


    Constantine City of Demons vs Comic
    I haven't read the comic of this, but it has been recommended to me. I thought this movie was a good show for Constantine. The renegade magician and irresponsible tosser, with a heart of gold. An itty-bitty heart, but it is there.


    Suicide Squad Hell To Pay vs Comic
    Another comic that I haven't read. Initially, I was left indifferent by Hell to Pay. Preferring Assault on Arkham as the Suicide Squad movie. However, this one has grown on me. Watch both Assault on Arkham and Hell to Pay is my recommendation.


    Apokolips War vs Darkseid War
    Last call is here. It's not at all accurate to say Apokolips War adapted Darkseid War. Too much is missing from John's original story. The JL becoming gods through various means, Earth not being destroyed, the Ant-Monitor's exclusion, Grail etc. What we get instead is more akin to Apokolips Now/Rock of Ages/JLU Destroyer/Final Crisis type story. Where Darkseid has thoroughly routed the League and only a handful remain left to oppose him.

    The film has issues, chiefly combining things people hate. E.g. Cannon fodder enemies (Chitauri, Skrull, Parademons, robot minions) and Doomsday as the Paradooms. The ultra-violence caused by the Paradooms. Which, in my opinion wouldn't have been so bad. If they had used the Furies (Amazing Grace, Lashina, Gilotina, Stompa, Mad Harriet, Bernadeth, and Bloody Mary) for the bulk of the engagements against the Leagues, Titans and Suicide Squad.

    The members of the two Leagues, Titans and Suicide Squad all got a good showing of their respective talents. Makes me sad that it's over.

    MVPs of the movie: Calamity Constantine, Spectacular Superman, Renegade Raven and the Terror Titan Trigon!!!

  15. #870
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    I had mixed feelings about Apokalips War. I don't think I took it too seriously, since I tend to view animated films by a slightly lower standard, unless its a special project. I skipped "Reign" but kept up with the rest of the universe and didn't feel lost. The fact this was part of the New 52-style continuity wasn't really on my mind either.


    SPOILERS

    The things I liked:


    -Constantine's journey and ultimate redemption twist was cool.

    -The seriousness of the scale felt appropriate, and the setting of the aftermath of a huge loss was cool.

    -Seeing a lot of JL members in action, even if most didn't have speaking roles

    -Superman not losing hope and being a source of inspiration in extremely dark times

    -Nods to various comics, like Batman in the mobius chair from Darkseid War or Barry on the treadmill a la TDKSA

    -The lasso doing its thang

    -Constant movement kept the story flowing, and the action was pretty entertaining overall.

    Things I was unsure about:

    -Damian and Raven, both as an item and their separate storylines. I didn't mind them, but also wasn't moved to care much.

    -Relying so heavily on the villains, and making them so comedic. I can understand needing their help against world-ending threats, but I would rather see fringe JL members get more screen time instead of Harley leading the Secret Society with her tension-breaking slapstick. (That said, King Shark is a shark.)

    -Trigon vs Darkseid sounds cool in theory and I've always wanted to see it, but there was a lack of narrative and conceptual spice around their conflict.

    -Paradooms. Part of me respects the insanity, part of me shakes my head at the silliness.

    -It felt wrong to see J'onn, Mera, Hawkman and Starfire so mutilated and corrupted. That was the point of course, so I can't fault it too hard, but I feel like they could have managed to make them look less sinister once they turned good again. Hawkman doesn't have an organic jaw ffs. How's he going to eat? Put them out of their misery. Cyborg as source wallpaper was also a bit cruel, even if he saves the day.

    -Superman should slowly die from Kryptonite poisoning in his body, and should struggle to be around kryptonian weapons. Not just be weakened. They should have gone for a red sun implant instead.

    Things I disliked:

    -Darkseid as just a big strong bad. I know there are limits to how creative animated combat can be, but if you only watched Darkseid in animation, you wouldn't think he was anything special beyond his strength and omega beams. He is a Kirbyan New God. There's more to his essence than a human-sized avatar to punch around.

    -Not too many quiet character moments to establish the tragedy of their initial failure; the movie relies on Constantine, Raven, Damian, and Superman post-apocalypse once its already done.

    -Flashpoint is brought up again to fault Barry, and time travel is abused once again as it was on the show; no cosmic treadmill needed, just run fast with no calibration and end up exactly where you want to be. I dislike it as a plot device generally and hate making it so easy for the Flash.

    -Unceremonious gruesome deaths galore. I can handle a good amount of gore in superhero stories when appropriate. But these are major, classic characters getting no lines and having their bodies ripped in two. That's just disrespectful and shallow.

    -The depressing ending doesn't resolve anything; it's a cop-out that leaves everything hanging and doesn't allow for any actual closure. Instead of showing our heroes picking up the pieces and rebuilding the world (even if Barry is going back in time in secret), they sit there after all that and we are told they can't prevent a billion people from dying.



    I don't know. 6/10 I guess. Worth a watch, some interesting concepts and satisfying individual storylines, and entertaining enough, but not the best writing and not the most balanced representation of what DC has to offer.

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