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  1. #1201
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the COMET View Post
    Richard is a weird name for an asian man tho. Unless one of his parents are from the west that went to live in asia after war-time, making him feel like an outsider in both countries so he follow his own path going to train in Nanda Parbat or something...
    "Richard Dragon" is a weird name for anyone, really...

  2. #1202
    Spectacular Member the COMET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Asian people often choose English first names to avoid having their given names mangled by Western pronunciation. And it's not like "Dragon" is a Asian last name either

    I suspect they'll have him be an Asian man who dyed his hair or make him of mixed ancestry. Given that the character was originally Asian, but was changed into a white guy due to, presumably, the racism of DC editorial, I've got no problem with them switching the character back if they intend to use Richard Dragon in the DCU moving forward.
    I think it's more probable they changed his looks because in the cover of that novel where he was created he looked a lot like Bruce Lee. Having the word Dragon attached doesn't help, if DC published a comic with him looking how he look in the novel it's like saying "sue me Bruce Lee, for using your likeness". So that was the reason for the change in my opinion, not racism. We shouldn't be accusing people of being criminals like that, it looks like Seduction of the Innocent all over again.
    Last edited by the COMET; 11-26-2020 at 10:27 AM.

  3. #1203
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the COMET View Post
    I think it's more probable they changed his looks because in the cover of that novel where he was created he looked a lot like Bruce Lee. Having the word Dragon attached doesn't help, if DC published a comic with him looking how he look in the novel it's like saying "sue me Bruce Lee, for using your likeness". So that was the reason for the change in my opinion, not racism. We shouldn't be accusing people of being criminals like that, it looks like Seduction of the Innocent all over again.
    A few problems here.

    1) Being racist isn't criminal so nobody has accused anyone of "being criminals"

    2) DC had a long history of not allowing non-white heroes, so it isn't a big leap to presume that this was the reasoning behind Richard Dragon's race swap when DC gave him his own title.

    3) They could have easily tweaked Richard Dragon to look less like Bruce Lee without changing him into a white guy. Shang-Chi was already being published at that time and never got into legal trouble, despite frequently looking like Bruce Lee, too.

  4. #1204
    Spectacular Member the COMET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    A few problems here.

    1) Being racist isn't criminal so nobody has accused anyone of "being criminals"

    2) DC had a long history of not allowing non-white heroes, so it isn't a big leap to presume that this was the reasoning behind Richard Dragon's race swap when DC gave him his own title.

    3) They could have easily tweaked Richard Dragon to look less like Bruce Lee without changing him into a white guy. Shang-Chi was already being published at that time and never got into legal trouble, despite frequently looking like Bruce Lee, too.
    I'll start with #3 so you don't think i have something against you. Yes, i agree with that, they could have made adjustments on the character hair, body type or whatever while still keeping him chinese. But maybe even then they could be afraid of the law suit and decided for a more radical change, i don't see racism in that.

    1) Racism is a crime anywhere in the world.

    From wikupedia:

    "A hate crime (also known as a bias-motivated crime or bias crime[1]) is a prejudice-motivated crime which occurs when a perpetrator targets a victim because of their membership (or perceived membership) of a certain social group or race.

    Examples of such groups can include, and are almost exclusively limited to: sex, ethnicity, disability, language, nationality, physical appearance, religion, gender identity or sexual orientation.[2][3][4] Non-criminal actions that are motivated by these reasons are often called "bias incidents".

    "Hate crime" generally refers to criminal acts which are seen to have been motivated by bias against one or more of the social groups listed above, or by bias against their derivatives. Incidents may involve physical assault, damage to property, bullying, harassment, verbal abuse or insults, mate crime or offensive graffiti or letters (hate mail).[5]

    A hate crime law is a law intended to deter bias-motivated violence.[6] Hate crime laws are distinct from laws against hate speech: hate crime laws enhance the penalties associated with conduct which is already criminal under other laws, while hate speech laws criminalize a category of speech.

    Hate speech is defined by the Cambridge Dictionary as "public speech that expresses hate or encourages violence towards a person or group based on something such as race, religion, sex, or sexual orientation".[1] Hate speech is "usually thought to include communications of animosity or disparagement of an individual or a group on account of a group characteristic such as race, colour, national origin, sex, disability, religion, or sexual orientation".[2]

    2) you say like there isn't characters like Cyborg, Vixen, Katana, etc. Apache Chief, Black Vulcan, Samurai on Superfriends in the 70's-80's. Race swap to POC on tv like Jimmy Olsen on Supergirl, Beast Boy and Starfire on Titans.
    DC seemed to have always done something to try to include everyone. But then again, do we really need a white hero, a black hero, an asian hero, a fat hero, a blind hero, a bold hero, an allergic hero, that band together to fight crime? I don't think fantasy stories have to be about representarion, i don't feel the need to see myself or someone like myself in the stories so i can enjoy them, nor do i think it will change anything in society, like how people view me or act at me. Fantasy stories don't need to represent society, like in Greek mythology everyone is muscular, does that represented ancient greek society? Where they being racist or discriminational?
    It's just art.
    Last edited by the COMET; 11-26-2020 at 08:55 PM.

  5. #1205
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the COMET View Post
    I'll start with #3 so you don't think i have something against you. Yes, i agree with that, they could have made adjustments on the character hair, body type or whatever while still keeping him chinese. But maybe even then they could be afraid of the law suit and decided for a more radical change, i don't see racism in that.

    1) Racism is a crime anywhere in the world.

    From wikupedia:

    "A hate crime (also known as a bias-motivated crime or bias crime[1]) is a prejudice-motivated crime which occurs when a perpetrator targets a victim because of their membership (or perceived membership) of a certain social group or race.

    Examples of such groups can include, and are almost exclusively limited to: sex, ethnicity, disability, language, nationality, physical appearance, religion, gender identity or sexual orientation.[2][3][4] Non-criminal actions that are motivated by these reasons are often called "bias incidents".

    "Hate crime" generally refers to criminal acts which are seen to have been motivated by bias against one or more of the social groups listed above, or by bias against their derivatives. Incidents may involve physical assault, damage to property, bullying, harassment, verbal abuse or insults, mate crime or offensive graffiti or letters (hate mail).[5]

    A hate crime law is a law intended to deter bias-motivated violence.[6] Hate crime laws are distinct from laws against hate speech: hate crime laws enhance the penalties associated with conduct which is already criminal under other laws, while hate speech laws criminalize a category of speech.

    Hate speech is defined by the Cambridge Dictionary as "public speech that expresses hate or encourages violence towards a person or group based on something such as race, religion, sex, or sexual orientation".[1] Hate speech is "usually thought to include communications of animosity or disparagement of an individual or a group on account of a group characteristic such as race, colour, national origin, sex, disability, religion, or sexual orientation".[2]
    We're not talking about today, we're talking about actions that occurred in 1973 long before any hate crime laws were even being considered.

    Quote Originally Posted by the COMET View Post
    2) you say like there isn't characters like Cyborg, Vixen, Katana, etc. Apache Chief, Black Vulcan, Samurai on Superfriends in the 70's-80's. Race swap to POC on tv like Jimmy Olsen on Supergirl, Beast Boy and Starfire on Titans.
    DC seemed to have always done something to try to include everyone. But then again, do we really need a white hero, a black hero, an asian hero, a fat hero, a blind hero, a bold hero, an allergic hero, that band together to fight crime? I don't think fantasy stories have to be about representarion, i don't feel the need to see myself or someone like myself in the stories so i can enjoy them, nor do i think it will change anything in society, like how people view me or act at me. Fantasy stories don't need to represent society, like in Greek mythology everyone is muscular, does that represented ancient greek society? Where they being racist or discriminational?
    It's just art.
    Again, this is 1973, at which point DC had rejected every pitch made to introduce POC superheroes with the sole exception of John Stewart as the 3rd string Green Lantern. Things would quickly change, of course, and DC would go on to introduce all the characters you mentioned. However, in 1973, DC was very likely not ready to give an Asian man a solo title.

    Unfortunately, DC was very behind the ball when it came to giving non-white characters their own comics. As much as I prefer the DCU, Marvel was undeniably way ahead of DC in terms of giving solo comics to more diverse characters.

    Today? Very different story. Still lots of work to be done, but DC has come a long way since the early '70s.

  6. #1206
    Astonishing Member HandofPrometheus's Avatar
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    Did Neil ever say why Richard Dragon was changed? I find it weird he was suddenly changed white but then again I wouldn't be surprised if it was for reasons Bored pointed out.

    I had no idea these characters came from novels. I wonder if DC is gonna change him back Asian. Iron Fist got a lot of flack and this movie is going to be Richard's big exposure.

  7. #1207
    Astonishing Member HandofPrometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the COMET View Post
    LOL that would be great!

    Richard is a weird name for an asian man tho. Unless one of his parents are from the west that went to live in asia after war-time, making him feel like an outsider in both countries so he follow his own path going to train in Nanda Parbat or something...

    Anyone excited to see Bronze Tiger? lately he seems interisting to me, i don't know much about the character. I'll look for stories of him, but a brand new modern origin story would be nice
    I am! He's the main reason why I'm interested in the movie in the first place! I love the updated origin Ostrander gave him in his Suicide Squad comic. It can definitely be told in more detail though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Why do adaptions keep giving Shiva a sword? She's supposed to be a master hand-to-hand fighter, she shouldn't need a sword.

    Arkham Origins was the only exception.
    That's the same way I feel when they give Ben those claws. I don't mind them if they're like gauntlets to deflect sharp weapons like in the SS: HTP movie.

  8. #1208
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    When it comes to Death and Return of Superman, I have both of the movies separately, but is it necessary to buy the edited combined movie? I've heard that it has a new special feature on the disc, Long Live Superman, but I'd hate to double dip just for one special feature.

  9. #1209
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTTT View Post
    When it comes to Death and Return of Superman, I have both of the movies separately, but is it necessary to buy the edited combined movie? I've heard that it has a new special feature on the disc, Long Live Superman, but I'd hate to double dip just for one special feature.
    Doesn't also come with a copy of the original Doomsday film?
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  10. #1210
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Doesn't also come with a copy of the original Doomsday film?
    Yeah I think it does. Is there any difference narratively between the one long movie and the separate ones like extra footage?

  11. #1211
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTTT View Post
    Yeah I think it does. Is there any difference narratively between the one long movie and the separate ones like extra footage?
    I never saw either version (debated about trying to find that all in one edition, but there's other stuff I'm kinda more interested in getting before that). According to the internet, it's just the two movies spliced together, no extra footage or anything deleted (I'm guessing there might be some editing at the actual splice, but probably nothing major).
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  12. #1212
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    https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/...nimated-movie/

    I thought this was funny. I saw the twitter feed that was posted in the article and wow...it is pretty much shot for shot in that scene the same as Avengers: Endgame. Come on MCU. Stay our of the DCAMU playground

  13. #1213
    Fantastic Member Menacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Know View Post
    Let's talk about the ever steady DC direct to video animated movies. When these first started coming out, I really liked them. I bought everything from Superman: Doomsday through Crisis on Two Earths. But then Superman/Batman: Apocalypse and All-Star Superman came out and I was severely disappointed, and I haven't bought a movie since. I was able to watch a few online afterwards, JL Doom I liked but Superman Unbound, Justice League War and Throne of Atlantis I found meh. Only titles I've seen snipets of have been really hit and miss. I feel like I'm not missing much, but what are other's feeling about them.


    Superman: Doomsday
    Justice League: The New Frontier
    Batman: Gotham Knight
    Wonder Woman
    Green Lantern: First Flight
    Superman/Batman: Public Enemies
    Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths
    Batman: Under the Red Hood
    Superman/Batman: Apocalypse
    Superman/Shazam!: The Return of Black Adam
    All-Star Superman
    Green Lantern: Emerald Knights
    Batman: Year One
    Justice League: Doom
    Superman vs. The Elite
    Batman: The Dark Knight Returns Part 1
    Batman: The Dark Knight Returns Part 2
    Superman: Unbound
    Batman: Assault on Arkham
    Justice League: Gods and Monsters
    Killing Joke - In Production

    Movies based on the New 52 verse and are all in continuity with one another.

    Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox
    Justice League: War
    Son of Batman
    Justice League: Throne of Atlantis
    Batman vs. Robin
    Batman: Bad Blood
    Justice League vs Teen Titans - Release date in April
    I've very slowly been making my way through this list. I've enjoyed what I've seen so far ...

    Total opposite of you, I didn't connect with All Star comic book, really disliked it and all the hype around it made it worse.

    The animated film though totally won me over, very much enjoyed it!

  14. #1214
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTTT View Post
    https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/...nimated-movie/

    I thought this was funny. I saw the twitter feed that was posted in the article and wow...it is pretty much shot for shot in that scene the same as Avengers: Endgame. Come on MCU. Stay our of the DCAMU playground
    Well, some DC storyboard artists have actually storyboarded for Marvel movies...

  15. #1215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well, some DC storyboard artists have actually storyboarded for Marvel movies...
    The idea that anybody would have watched Superman/Batman Public Enemies and thought "We need to copy that" is so mindbogglingly unbelievable that this has to just be a coincidence (or an edited clip designed to make them look the same)

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