Tim Seeley gives DC ALL ACCESS interview about GRAYSON

[Kid A]

The Spiderman and Daredevil comparisons in my opinion are what hurt the character. It doesn't allow the him to be his own character. He is not as down on his luck as Peter Parker and Brooding as Daredevil. I think he gets compared to them a lot because of the acrobatic fighting style. The problem with keeeping him in that type of box is the character gets perceived as being flaky. I have had multiple DC Comic readers who were not Night Wing fans regard him as coming off that way. A great deal of that is because I don't think a lot of writers play up his strengths beyond being agile and not as dark as Batman. It's a shame. I think he is one of the most balanced and flexible characters DC has. He can fit in various settings and interact with so many other characters because he has a large skill set. I think this new direction has a chance to show case him as Dick Grayson not being written as Spiderman or Daredevil because he is his own character. They just need to play up the characters strengths instead of writing him so mediocre that he barely wins fights in his own book which although I like Higgins he did throughout the majority of his run to be the Spiderman type every man character which killed that run in my opinion. The guy was the first person to every be trained by Batman. Their is no excuse for the poor showings he has had up to this point.

Well said.

I've seen people say Waid's Daredevil is what Nightwing should be, but such a hypothetical Nightwing run would just solidify him as some kind of wannabe Spider-Man/Daredevil.

[Dzetoun]

The Spiderman and Daredevil comparisons in my opinion are what hurt the character. It doesn't allow the him to be his own character. He is not as down on his luck as Peter Parker and Brooding as Daredevil. I think he gets compared to them a lot because of the acrobatic fighting style. The problem with keeeping him in that type of box is the character gets perceived as being flaky. I have had multiple DC Comic readers who were not Night Wing fans regard him as coming off that way. A great deal of that is because I don't think a lot of writers play up his strengths beyond being agile and not as dark as Batman. It's a shame. I think he is one of the most balanced and flexible characters DC has. He can fit in various settings and interact with so many other characters because he has a large skill set. I think this new direction has a chance to show case him as Dick Grayson not being written as Spiderman or Daredevil because he is his own character. They just need to play up the characters strengths instead of writing him so mediocre that he barely wins fights in his own book which although I like Higgins he did throughout the majority of his run to be the Spiderman type every man character which killed that run in my opinion. The guy was the first person to every be trained by Batman. Their is no excuse for the poor showings he has had up to this point.

I think part of the problem is that the DC Universe, whichever version you are talking about, has had a tendency to break down into family groupings sorted not so much by relationships as by power sets. So you have the Krypton Super People, the Speedsters, the Lanterns, the Shazams, the Amazons, the Atlanteans, the Magic People, and the like. For a person without powers, whether inherent or technical, the two main family groups are the Arrows and the Bats. The problem inherent in these families, is that each of them has a dominant figure. That means there is all sorts of pressure on creative teams to maintain that hierarchy. There is nothing in that situation that requires a member of a lineage to be written as struggling or naïve or incompetent or whatever, but I suppose it's natural for writers who want to differentiate and explore a character to seize on their place in a family and run with it, be that place Batman-lite or Not-as-good-as-Ollie or whatever. There are only two ways for characters to overcome that. The first is the legacy path in which they replace the head of the "family." Let's not get into that debate right now, but just agree that ain't gonna happen with the big families (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman). The other is to move outside the family or find a new direction within it.

Well, Dick is a Bat, and he's going to stay a Bat for a while. There really isn't any other place to go right now, since the two main families for non-powered people are the Bats and the Arrows and he certainly isn't an Arrow. But there isn't a family for spies. There are spies around, and espionage, and secret activities, but no distinct family grouping. The people who talk about Bucky Barnes miss an important point, namely that Marvel has a spy family grouping in SHIELD, where as DC really doesn't have anything like that. It's a direction that's close enough to the Bats not to constitute an irrevocable break, but new enough to offer avenue for growth, and if all goes well to independence and the creation of a new family grouping, or at least a semi-independent sub-family.

[K. Jones]

Just on the aside ... Dick is a bird, not a bat. Haha, who complains about living in the shadow of the bat? Only Dick. It's Dick Grayson all the Robins, Red Robins, Redwings, Bluebirds, Larks, Jays, Starlings and even Canaries are trying to live up to.

Kind of a weird thing since it's usually Babs' show, but post-Spyral, if they wanted to make Dick the sole male member, of the Birds of Prey, I'd be so down.

And I don't know why it took me this long to think of it, and it's totally off-topic, but since I already want them to ditch Tim's awful "Red Robin" codename and call him Redwing ... it occurred to me, and the actual bird that just landed on my windowsill a moment ago ... that Cassandra Cain should be called Blackbird.

[OWL45]

I think part of the problem is that the DC Universe, whichever version you are talking about, has had a tendency to break down into family groupings sorted not so much by relationships as by power sets. So you have the Krypton Super People, the Speedsters, the Lanterns, the Shazams, the Amazons, the Atlanteans, the Magic People, and the like. For a person without powers, whether inherent or technical, the two main family groups are the Arrows and the Bats. The problem inherent in these families, is that each of them has a dominant figure. That means there is all sorts of pressure on creative teams to maintain that hierarchy. There is nothing in that situation that requires a member of a lineage to be written as struggling or naïve or incompetent or whatever, but I suppose it's natural for writers who want to differentiate and explore a character to seize on their place in a family and run with it, be that place Batman-lite or Not-as-good-as-Ollie or whatever. There are only two ways for characters to overcome that. The first is the legacy path in which they replace the head of the "family." Let's not get into that debate right now, but just agree that ain't gonna happen with the big families (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman). The other is to move outside the family or find a new direction within it.

Well, Dick is a Bat, and he's going to stay a Bat for a while. There really isn't any other place to go right now, since the two main families for non-powered people are the Bats and the Arrows and he certainly isn't an Arrow. But there isn't a family for spies. There are spies around, and espionage, and secret activities, but no distinct family grouping. The people who talk about Bucky Barnes miss an important point, namely that Marvel has a spy family grouping in SHIELD, where as DC really doesn't have anything like that. It's a direction that's close enough to the Bats not to constitute an irrevocable break, but new enough to offer avenue for growth, and if all goes well to independence and the creation of a new family grouping, or at least a semi-independent sub-family.

This is spot on. I really don't see the Bucky comparisons myself. Bucky is more of an assassin not a spy. Black Widow is both. I think he could be DC's answer to a Nick Fury type. With him moving more to the outside looking in that's more of what his role in the DC Universe could become as far as his relationship to the hero community. That could lead to the new family grouping your talking about or sub group. I guess Steve Trevor before this new direction for Dick could have somewhat been pushed in that direction but Dicks skill set, history, and personality just completely eclipses Steve Trevor's as a character.

[ABH]

Kind of a weird thing since it's usually Babs' show, but post-Spyral, if they wanted to make Dick the sole male member, of the Birds of Prey, I'd be so down.

hmm, I guess it would be taking a little bit away from the whole "Girl Power" (or "Femme Force" if you'd prefer) of the Birds, but that actually sounds like a pretty good idea. It would be Dick Grayson, surrounded by a bunch of lovely Birds (heh), that works.

And I don't know why it took me this long to think of it, and it's totally off-topic, but since I already want them to ditch Tim's awful "Red Robin" codename and call him Redwing ... it occurred to me, and the actual bird that just landed on my windowsill a moment ago ... that Cassandra Cain should be called Blackbird.

I still prefer Blackbat, for Cass, but since her time as Batgirl doesn't really exist in the New 52, then Blackbird works pretty damn well. I kind of feel like I'd want Canary to be the one to give her that name.

[Dzetoun]

This is spot on. I really don't see the Bucky comparisons myself. Bucky is more of an assassin not a spy. Black Widow is both. I think he could be DC's answer to a Nick Fury type. With him moving more to the outside looking in that's more of what his role in the DC Universe could become as far as his relationship to the hero community. That could lead to the new family grouping your talking about or sub group. I guess Steve Trevor before this new direction for Dick could have somewhat been pushed in that direction but Dicks skill set, history, and personality just completely eclipses Steve Trevor's as a character.

In terms of a possible relationship to the DCnU as a whole, I think of it in terms of the overall structure that seems to be coming together. It would appear that the DCnU is becoming more unified as things finally shake out after the reboot, and whatever the event turns out to be next summer may leave things in a much clearer and more coherent situation. The Justice League titles are the public face of unity, dealing with major threats, and specific jobs around the edges seem to be gravitating to other books. So the Magic People under Justice League Dark can deal with the paranormal; the Lanterns with help from the Super people can deal with space; the Amazons, Atlanteans, and eventually hopefully the Shazams can nail down the mythic and legendary stuff; maybe a revitalized Stormwatch can deal with the Multiverse; Flash can watch out for time disturbances; and the Bats ... can be the Bats. The thing they are missing here is some way to deal with the "underside" of things, the secret and the personal. They really need somebody who can meet with Hal Jordan on Monday to talk about some mysterious conspiracy that seems to involve space, then follow it up with lunch in Metropolis on Wednesday and appear in Central City on Friday to warn Flash that the new company setting up in town bears close watching and be careful. This is the kind of thing SHIELD does in the Marvel universe, and that Oracle did in the old DCU, but the New 52 has nobody to function like that. Like you say, they appeared to be pushing Trevor in that direction, but it didn't work out. And that is where the long-term opportunity for Grayson may be. After all, historically this is the kind of thing that Dick has excelled at. He can become both SHIELD and Oracle, albeit an analog Oracle rather than a digital one.

[OWL45]

In terms of a possible relationship to the DCnU as a whole, I think of it in terms of the overall structure that seems to be coming together. It would appear that the DCnU is becoming more unified as things finally shake out after the reboot, and whatever the event turns out to be next summer may leave things in a much clearer and more coherent situation. The Justice League titles are the public face of unity, dealing with major threats, and specific jobs around the edges seem to be gravitating to other books. So the Magic People under Justice League Dark can deal with the paranormal; the Lanterns with help from the Super people can deal with space; the Amazons, Atlanteans, and eventually hopefully the Shazams can nail down the mythic and legendary stuff; maybe a revitalized Stormwatch can deal with the Multiverse; Flash can watch out for time disturbances; and the Bats ... can be the Bats. The thing they are missing here is some way to deal with the "underside" of things, the secret and the personal. They really need somebody who can meet with Hal Jordan on Monday to talk about some mysterious conspiracy that seems to involve space, then follow it up with lunch in Metropolis on Wednesday and appear in Central City on Friday to warn Flash that the new company setting up in town bears close watching and be careful. This is the kind of thing SHIELD does in the Marvel universe, and that Oracle did in the old DCU, but the New 52 has nobody to function like that. Like you say, they appeared to be pushing Trevor in that direction, but it didn't work out. And that is where the long-term opportunity for Grayson may be. After all, historically this is the kind of thing that Dick has excelled at. He can become both SHIELD and Oracle, albeit an analog Oracle rather than a digital one.

It would be great after the Spyral story line if they moved things in that direction.

[Badou]

Well, that's because Dick was created as a supporting character. That literally is what he was designed for.

That is what he is designed for in the Batman line, but if he was in a different department he could stand on his own more I feel. Jason is under a different department and can pretty much go and do anything the writers want. He isn't really limited to having to cater to whatever Bruce is doing like the other characters in the Batman line.

Though I am mainly talking about the character's solo book being under a different editorial department. He can still appear in Batman line titles, that is to be expected, but I don't think the character can ever truly grow with Bruce there constantly looming over him in the same department. Where all the characters main motivation trickles down from whatever Bruce does rather than what Dick himself is doing, and that is what will keep the character from ever being an A-list caliber character.

Other A-list characters don't really have this problem. Maybe aside from a few X-Men characters as they get pulled around with whatever Cyclops or Wolverine are doing.

[oasis1313]

Wolverine was created to be a mere supporting team member in the X-Men reboot, along with Storm and Colossus, etc. But he took off because Marvel ALLOWED him "be the best there is at what he does." Which, in this case, is selling comic books. Another question is exactly how DO we identify an A-List character at DC? Wonder Woman has never sold much, even with George Perez, Brian Bolland, Adam Hughes, etc artwork; most of the time DC publishes her title just to keep from losing the trademark on her. Superman and Batman--yeah, supporting multiple books by virtue of sales, so they're clearly A-list. Green Lantern is an A-Lister, and even his movie was a stinker. Nightwing has consistently outsold many A-Lister titles, but it seems to boil down to the possibility that maybe he's on the B-team because that's where fanboy editors WANT him to be. If D-Dude said to Seeley and King, "Take this character to the top," and they rose to the challenge, would he PERMIT a Nightwing or Grayson FAMILY or a Spy Family? Even if it sold like hotcakes? If there's not a huge drop in sales after the first issue, we could likely expect creative teams to be jettisoned, issues delayed, all the usual stuff when Editorial decides a B-List character needs to be kept in his place.

[byrd156]

Wolverine was created to be a mere supporting team member in the X-Men reboot, along with Storm and Colossus, etc. But he took off because Marvel ALLOWED him "be the best there is at what he does." Which, in this case, is selling comic books. Another question is exactly how DO we identify an A-List character at DC? Wonder Woman has never sold much, even with George Perez, Brian Bolland, Adam Hughes, etc artwork; most of the time DC publishes her title just to keep from losing the trademark on her. Superman and Batman--yeah, supporting multiple books by virtue of sales, so they're clearly A-list. Green Lantern is an A-Lister, and even his movie was a stinker. Nightwing has consistently outsold many A-Lister titles, but it seems to boil down to the possibility that maybe he's on the B-team because that's where fanboy editors WANT him to be. If D-Dude said to Seeley and King, "Take this character to the top," and they rose to the challenge, would he PERMIT a Nightwing or Grayson FAMILY or a Spy Family? Even if it sold like hotcakes? If there's not a huge drop in sales after the first issue, we could likely expect creative teams to be jettisoned, issues delayed, all the usual stuff when Editorial decides a B-List character needs to be kept in his place.

I hate it when people say a character is stuck in someones shadow like Dick Grayson for example. When Dick lead the Titans and became Nightwing he was out and has been out ever since. The only reason people are saying it now is because A) They don't know the character very well and only know him as Robin or B) The New 52 stripped all his history away from him so now he is in Batman's shadow again and people only know the current version.

[oasis1313]

I hate it when people say a character is stuck in someones shadow like Dick Grayson for example. When Dick lead the Titans and became Nightwing he was out and has been out ever since. The only reason people are saying it now is because A) They don't know the character very well and only know him as Robin or B) The New 52 stripped all his history away from him so now he is in Batman's shadow again and people only know the current version.

Dick is only "Trapped" in Bruce's shadow because that's where DC WANTS him to be. Dick's fans want him at the top of the heap, where he belongs.

[byrd156]

Dick is only "Trapped" in Bruce's shadow because that's where DC WANTS him to be. Dick's fans want him at the top of the heap, where he belongs.

Why DC, Why?

[LoneNecromancer]

Dick is only "Trapped" in Bruce's shadow because that's where DC WANTS him to be. Dick's fans want him at the top of the heap, where he belongs.

Dick's creator created him to be in Bruce's "shadow".

[bluearcher180]

Why DC, Why?

Exactly.

Combine the fact that there are too many Robins (and side-kicks) and you see that the DC creative teams are stuck NOT knowing where to go with Nightwing.

DC should have taken a less popular character (Red Robin) to use for the is "spy game" story arc but decided to use Dick so as to pander to more interest and better sales. Nightwing has too many story arcs and "roots" establishing his character and place in the DC Universe that Red Robin lacks.

Did I mention that Dicks identity exposure also blows massive holes in the continuation of Batmans secret identity?
You cannot distance Dick from Bruce in the same way as distancing Tim Drake and with the exposure of Dick as Nightwing...only a fool wound NOT trace that back to Bruce Wayne.

[Claude]

DC should have taken a less popular character (Red Robin) to use for the is "spy game" story arc but decided to use Dick so as to pander to more interest and better sales.

It's DC's job to create series that attract interest and sales. If they thought "y'know, let's use a less popular character for this" and told this story with Tim? 1) You'd have a series with a protagonist that didn't suit the genre. Tim is many things, but he isn't a swashbuckler. And 2) You'd have a lower-selling book.

Neither are desireable to DC.