The Atlantic: "The Trouble with Superman"

[JBatmanFan05]

If you're reading a Superman who can fly, or is married, or exists in a world with other superheroes you're reading an aberration. I'm sorry, but you are.

Do you know how long Siegel wrote Superman comics? Perhaps not.

[Flash Gordon]

If you're reading a Superman who can fly, or is married, or exists in a world with other superheroes you're reading an aberration. I'm sorry, but you are.

Man, this makes me yearn for a book divorced from all of that and just straight up Golden Age Supes.

[Flash Gordon]

Do you know how long Siegel wrote Superman comics? Perhaps not.

Well they are his two dads, there would not be a Kal from Krypton without them.

[JBatmanFan05]

Man, this makes me yearn for a book divorced from all of that and just straight up Golden Age Supes.

I would love that too. Had I an ounce of art skills and a desire to violate the law, I'd make them myself.

[The World]

And it comes back around: http://bgr.com/2016/02/08/superman-vs-batman-dc-comics/

The above piece is even lazier than typical for these, but I bring it up here since it cites the topic article.

Batman doesn’t have any superpowers at all and he’s a somewhat reclusive man haunted by the death of his parents.

So where is the flaw here? All I see is one aspect that used to prove how awesome he is and another one whose impact on his life is negligible beyond turning him into GREATEST SUPERHERO EVER.

[Flash Gordon]

I would love that too. Had I an ounce of art skills and a desire to violate the law, I'd make them myself.

I actually think a very basic Golden Age Superman riff could work well in a modern setting. Toss in a touch of Big Brother and strange black hawk helicopters trailing him and it'd be a wild ride. Though I'd want him to be a real social crusader, no shadow monster cop outs.

[JBatmanFan05]

I actually think a very basic Golden Age Superman riff could work well in a modern setting. Toss in a touch of Big Brother and strange black hawk helicopters trailing him and it'd be a wild ride. Though I'd want him to be a real social crusader, no shadow monster cop outs.

No, I know what you mean. He'd even have to tackle crushing student debt and take down some corrupt university executives.

[Prime]

Im just starting to give up on DC and comics in general.

[JBatmanFan05]

Im just starting to give up on DC and comics in general.

Due to something happening or not happening with Superman comics?

[jimishim12]

SUperman has problems, because he's written to succeed over everything that human beings gradually fail to immediately overcome, it's a primal instinct that we must earn our right to overcome obstacles through adversity and determination when we desire achievements over the impossible and also persevere through psychological faults of our lifestyle and motives, Superman is the broadness of achieving anything through having the perfect standards and best pre requites of ultimate power and ultimate character and has no deep vices or ineptness to motive him to do better, he's already the best of anyone as a pillar of idealism and humanity that always win through and through. Captain America is the same and he isn't really a big hit compared to Peter Parker because he's too flawless and white sided of all measures of goodness.

Superman needs a basic reinvention as a captivating protagonist, his basis is to shallow. He's basically space jesus who came to to preach the gospel of jor el and johnathan kent, and it's so predictably obvious he will never have the ability to be wrong/hold no prejudice in a meaningfuly way, meaning he's infallible in his concept and holds no flaws to spread his principles to people who hold their own perspective of morals to a certain situation that Supes is typically praised for, he's also a square who people find boring because he always follows the law and has better hindsight than even beings that transcend human logic and natures.

Superman needs to be basic as in basic with no meaningful messages about being good and doing good as a divine symbol of metaphorical context, have him be relatively good as he hates when people get hurt by threats and he's good because he's going the beat some ass since the bad guy pissed Superman off for doing just that, he loves people and he loves to help people, he also has a bit of a alpha male streak(speaks his mind, takes no shit, and acts like a jock but not a full blown one just one that has to make people like batman loosen up) and prefers to fight threats that try to piss him off(Like threating innocents and being assholes) and ruin his life not because it's the right thing, and he loves to fight, seriously a guy that just clobbers monsters and gets down with elditric abominations should excite him not this I will fight for the sake of being goody goodness and you are evil mc meanscum. Retaliative and simple, his moral imperatives just correlate to what he cherishes most in life not because he must show people how to act good.

[Kuwagaton]

Whoa. That's.... certainly an opinion to which you're entitled.

It's a shame the way Superman is haunted by bland stories. Spider-Man has some really bad ones and he just walks right through. Batman never shows a particularly nuanced character outside of a few runs, imo. But I wonder why they seem so much more exciting than a guy who can fight a sun.

[Lightning Rider]

That is Superman. I think most people want to have a Superman that is inspiring, not one that is beat down and has basically no friends or family. The current Superman storyline is missing those qualities: purity of heart, an instinctive moral compass, an optimistic outlook, and a symbol of hope.

I definitely get those who say that a character can be interpreted a thousand ways. But there has to be something to make a character minimally constant and distinctive, and for Superman, I think that's it.

[L.R Johansson]

Time to give my 5 cents on this. = )

I hope people answer, because I'm interested in your opinion. I don't think there's any one thing. Like poster A and I can both agree that there needs to be a change in characer direction, but if poster A was willing to sit through more than one issue of Truth, we very quickly fall into two different categories.

Like you say, there's several things that attract people to Superman, and different things that people think is essential to the character.

Me? I think it's something much more basal, something that's close to "that one thing".

Something like Greg Pak's first arc.

We're getting there... ; )

I think we all want the same thing....A return to the Silver Age Superman!

No, not really.

I think if you want to distill Superman's essence, it's a god trying to be a man, and as good a man as he can be. It doesn't matter as much whether he feels more like Kal or Clark, but what does matter is that he loves his family, and wants to do everything possible to help humanity. And whether comfortable with it or not, he shoulders the responsibility of being the world's inspiration and who they look to for leadership and guidance in times of peril. Purity of heart, an instinctive moral compass, an optimistic outlook, and a symbol of hope. That's how Superman should be portrayed, regardless of the context or circumstances which surround him. Now that leaves a lot of wiggle room, which has been well explored. But at their core, I think the definitive Superman stories all share this portrayal.

That is Superman. I think most people want to have a Superman that is inspiring, not one that is beat down and has basically no friends or family. The current Superman storyline is missing those qualities: purity of heart, an instinctive moral compass, an optimistic outlook, and a symbol of hope.

I'd say this is the core of it - Superman is the FINAL EVOLUTION of the old demi-god tales of old, wherein a mortal man is not quite just that... handing down from Gilgamesh to Hercules to Samson (which is one of the inspirations for Superman).
It's about seeing an extraordinary hero beating impossible odds again and again, standing up to the bullies of the world, and astounding those around him at the same time.

The clues are in his creators - two young nerds who were beat down not just because of that, but because of their jewishness as well - it's something that hails from the very basics of human myth-making - sitting around the camp-fire and hearing tales of do-dare of how the god-hero beat the demon-wolf of the night.
But there's also a clue in the title of his comic...

ACTION COMICS!

Why people read Superman is because of these qualities - we want to see the great hero beat up on the bad-guys. You could say this makes Superman the most generic hero of them all, but I say... that's ok.

Just make sure you do that to the fullest extent supermanly possible, because that's the intent of the character - he's a distillate of the heroic myth.

That's why Superman was so popular in the past, because the heroic myth, the Heroes Journey has a Universal appeal - it's in every culture, it resonates with every single human being in existence.

Just tell that story - to the fullest, brightest most audacious setting possible.


The Japanese get this - that's why Dragon Ball remains popular, and why One-Punch Man has become a break-out hit.

Man, this makes me yearn for a book divorced from all of that and just straight up Golden Age Supes.

H*ll yes.

That's one of my life-long dreams, to break into the comics-industry and write a reimagining of the first 5 or so years of Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster's Superman - direct retellings of those early stories, but with the gaps filled in, and more of a look into the psychology of Superman, his villains and supporting cast. A slight, slight injection of realism into those early complete fantasies - the grit and hardship of the late 30's and early 40's, sprayed onto a canvas of cosmic joy and madness.

A superman drawn by Dale Eaglesham and painted by Alex Ross... that's the dream.

[Prime]

Remember that Serman is also a character, not just as symbol.

[Kuwagaton]

I'd say this is the core of it - Superman is the FINAL EVOLUTION of the old demi-god tales of old, wherein a mortal man is not quite just that... handing down from Gilgamesh to Hercules to Samson (which is one of the inspirations for Superman).
It's about seeing an extraordinary hero beating impossible odds again and again, standing up to the bullies of the world, and astounding those around him at the same time.

The clues are in his creators - two young nerds who were beat down not just because of that, but because of their jewishness as well - it's something that hails from the very basics of human myth-making - sitting around the camp-fire and hearing tales of do-dare of how the god-hero beat the demon-wolf of the night.
But there's also a clue in the title of his comic...

ACTION COMICS!

Why people read Superman is because of these qualities - we want to see the great hero beat up on the bad-guys. You could say this makes Superman the most generic hero of them all, but I say... that's ok.

Just make sure you do that to the fullest extent supermanly possible, because that's the intent of the character - he's a distillate of the heroic myth.

That's why Superman was so popular in the past, because the heroic myth, the Heroes Journey has a Universal appeal - it's in every culture, it resonates with every single human being in existence.

Just tell that story - to the fullest, brightest most audacious setting possible.


The Japanese get this - that's why Dragon Ball remains popular, and why One-Punch Man has become a break-out hit.

I'm not sure Superman is the final evolution, or the latest evolution, when you consider the titles you just mentioned. What the Japanese get is that no one are needs to be left behind. The huge shonen stories (the Japanese equivalent of superheroes) will frequently incorporate the life cycle and highlight adolescence. It will also typically accommodate humor, so you end up with all of these cool heroes with goofy puns for names. I haven't really gotten into OP Man but I'm a lifelong fan of DB and One Piece, with considerable knowledge of others like Ranma 1/2 and Toriko. These stories don't get embarrassed to embrace fun. Even Fist of the North Star is rife with gallows humor.

Because the stories occupy such bizarre spaces, you'll see more generic or archetypical heroes. They'll share whatever distinct quirks they even have. That's okay, too. You need flexibility, which is what "boring old" Superman really has. Last but not least, they get power level leaps through struggle. While Superman is an infinite comic, people do like to see a character stretch to fill an action story. Bigger and better.

As for the core idea of Superman beating up the bad guys... well, I like Superman against nature and stuff like that, too. I like it when writers can get away from an antagonist, but they rarely do and I never outright expect it.