The Atlantic: "The Trouble with Superman"

[Prime]

I don't understand why One Punch Man is so popular. Seriously...WHY?

[Kuwagaton]

Probably because it's not taking itself so seriously. Like we see with One Piece, Deadpool, and freaking Harley Quinn.

I can't tell you how down I was about a comic where DP bragged about outselling Superman.

[Lightning Rider]

I'd say this is the core of it - Superman is the FINAL EVOLUTION of the old demi-god tales of old, wherein a mortal man is not quite just that... handing down from Gilgamesh to Hercules to Samson (which is one of the inspirations for Superman).
It's about seeing an extraordinary hero beating impossible odds again and again, standing up to the bullies of the world, and astounding those around him at the same time.

The clues are in his creators - two young nerds who were beat down not just because of that, but because of their jewishness as well - it's something that hails from the very basics of human myth-making - sitting around the camp-fire and hearing tales of do-dare of how the god-hero beat the demon-wolf of the night.
But there's also a clue in the title of his comic...

ACTION COMICS!

Why people read Superman is because of these qualities - we want to see the great hero beat up on the bad-guys. You could say this makes Superman the most generic hero of them all, but I say... that's ok.

Just make sure you do that to the fullest extent supermanly possible, because that's the intent of the character - he's a distillate of the heroic myth.

That's why Superman was so popular in the past, because the heroic myth, the Heroes Journey has a Universal appeal - it's in every culture, it resonates with every single human being in existence.

Just tell that story - to the fullest, brightest most audacious setting possible.


The Japanese get this - that's why Dragon Ball remains popular, and why One-Punch Man has become a break-out hit.



H*ll yes.

That's one of my life-long dreams, to break into the comics-industry and write a reimagining of the first 5 or so years of Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster's Superman - direct retellings of those early stories, but with the gaps filled in, and more of a look into the psychology of Superman, his villains and supporting cast. A slight, slight injection of realism into those early complete fantasies - the grit and hardship of the late 30's and early 40's, sprayed onto a canvas of cosmic joy and madness.

A superman drawn by Dale Eaglesham and painted by Alex Ross... that's the dream.

I won! I won! I knew I would, I just knew it.

[Agent Z]

SUperman has problems, because he's written to succeed over everything that human beings gradually fail to immediately overcome, it's a primal instinct that we must earn our right to overcome obstacles through adversity and determination when we desire achievements over the impossible and also persevere through psychological faults of our lifestyle and motives, Superman is the broadness of achieving anything through having the perfect standards and best pre requites of ultimate power and ultimate character and has no deep vices or ineptness to motive him to do better, he's already the best of anyone as a pillar of idealism and humanity that always win through and through. Captain America is the same and he isn't really a big hit compared to Peter Parker because he's too flawless and white sided of all measures of goodness.

Superman needs a basic reinvention as a captivating protagonist, his basis is to shallow. He's basically space jesus who came to to preach the gospel of jor el and johnathan kent, and it's so predictably obvious he will never have the ability to be wrong/hold no prejudice in a meaningfuly way, meaning he's infallible in his concept and holds no flaws to spread his principles to people who hold their own perspective of morals to a certain situation that Supes is typically praised for, he's also a square who people find boring because he always follows the law and has better hindsight than even beings that transcend human logic and natures.

Superman needs to be basic as in basic with no meaningful messages about being good and doing good as a divine symbol of metaphorical context, have him be relatively good as he hates when people get hurt by threats and he's good because he's going the beat some ass since the bad guy pissed Superman off for doing just that, he loves people and he loves to help people, he also has a bit of a alpha male streak(speaks his mind, takes no shit, and acts like a jock but not a full blown one just one that has to make people like batman loosen up) and prefers to fight threats that try to piss him off(Like threating innocents and being assholes) and ruin his life not because it's the right thing, and he loves to fight, seriously a guy that just clobbers monsters and gets down with elditric abominations should excite him not this I will fight for the sake of being goody goodness and you are evil mc meanscum. Retaliative and simple, his moral imperatives just correlate to what he cherishes most in life not because he must show people how to act good.

I think you've been watching too much DBZ

[HsssH]

What is classical Superman? Initial issues by their original creators before they were derailed by editors?

[Sacred Knight]

I think you've been watching too much DBZ

In a sense he's right. Superman should be all for a good fight. I don't think he should be like Goku, of whom fighting is literally rooted in his genes, if anything its intelligence that's in his DNA (which barely any writers capitalize on anymore), just that as someone who starts as basically a street fighter vigilante, and does love what he can do physically, its absolutely appropriate to portray him as getting a form of rush from a fight. Never to the point that it overshadows trying to protect people, but at the same time he was never designed to be anywhere close to a pacifist.

[Agent Z]

In a sense he's right. Superman should be all for a good fight. I don't think he should be like Goku, of whom fighting is literally rooted in his genes, if anything its intelligence that's in his DNA (which barely any writers capitalize on anymore), just that as someone who starts as basically a street fighter vigilante, and does love what he can do physically, its absolutely appropriate to portray him as getting a form of rush from a fight. Never to the point that it overshadows trying to protect people, but at the same time he was never designed to be anywhere close to a pacifist.

I think you can show Superman as being capable of fighting without showing he gets some sort of enjoyment from it. Especially, since he's not participating in a spectator sport which has a controlled environment and limits on what moves to make. Many of his fights involve dangerous enemies and collateral damage.

Besides you just know a lesser writer will flanderise this into him being a fight crazy maniac and I'd rather not give them the chance.

[Stanlos]

I don't understand why One Punch Man is so popular. Seriously...WHY?

I don't understand the popularity of the DBZ cartoon. I tried it several times now. I found it insufferable. I did however enjoy the mechanics of the video game.

As for this pitch, anything that has the return of superintelligence and big epic slobberknockers gets my vote. But I do see the validity of an earlier poster's criticism of such in a shared universe. Once again I see another similarity between the Man of Steel and the Amazing Amazon. Like her, in order for him to be more readily maximized, he really needs his own universe. I think this applies to all four of the major estates: Bats, Cap, Supes, and Wonder Woman might benefit from their own verses for a spell.

[Agent Z]

I don't understand the popularity of the DBZ cartoon. I tried it several times now. I found it insufferable. I did however enjoy the mechanics of the video game.

As for this pitch, anything that has the return of superintelligence and big epic slobberknockers gets my vote. But I do see the validity of an earlier poster's criticism of such in a shared universe. Once again I see another similarity between the Man of Steel and the Amazing Amazon. Like her, in order for him to be more readily maximized, he really needs his own universe. I think this applies to all four of the major estates: Bats, Cap, Supes, and Wonder Woman might benefit from their own verses for a spell.

Tbf, with the exception of line wide crossovers, most stories don't have much impact on the rest of the DCU.

[Stanlos]

Tbf, with the exception of line wide crossovers, most stories don't have much impact on the rest of the DCU.

That might be true--but readers may still think how can No Man's Land happen when there are (insert varsity level Superhero name here) could just assist. One can only wonder how such connections might impact the stories on the front end as well; creators are people too.

[Kuwagaton]

I think you can show Superman as being capable of fighting without showing he gets some sort of enjoyment from it. Especially, since he's not participating in a spectator sport which has a controlled environment and limits on what moves to make. Many of his fights involve dangerous enemies and collateral damage.

Besides you just know a lesser writer will flanderise this into him being a fight crazy maniac and I'd rather not give them the chance.

You're right about possible flanderizing.

Pre crisis Superman was surprisingly subtle in his amusement when it came to some physical challenges. Post crisis was less jovial, composed, amd physically capable. He became notorious for battles in the middle of the city that caused huge damage. That's still kinda there, unfortunately.

[Johnny Thunders!]

For me Superman is a character at odds with the times and the modern, older comic reader. On the one hand, at his core Superman is Mr. Impossible. He pushes beyond any limitations.
That is at odds with the need to "relate" to our heroes that are just like us.

[Lightning Rider]

For me Superman is a character at odds with the times and the modern, older comic reader. On the one hand, at his core Superman is Mr. Impossible. He pushes beyond any limitations.
That is at odds with the need to "relate" to our heroes that are just like us..

I think the story should often be about HIM trying to relate to US. Trying to stay human and grounded like his parents raised him to be despite having all this power.

[jimishim12]

I think the story should often be about HIM trying to relate to US. Trying to stay human and grounded like his parents raised him to be despite having all this power.

And an issue with this IMO is that some stories make Superman too melodramatic about not fitting in, really I think Superman has a very tough time being being human because he doesn't believe himself to be one like he has been raised as instead of being identical to one in a psychological sense, he should just be himself and act natural as a human man mentally who just so happens to have space god like powers and can live virtually forever. This is why people like the Crystal Gems from Steven Universe with amethyst being the most human and modern of the three.

I mean Supergirl gets this down and no one says she's a boring and perfect mary sue.

[Sacred Knight]

I think the story should often be about HIM trying to relate to US. Trying to stay human and grounded like his parents raised him to be despite having all this power.

That's actually one of Superman's ongoing problems. Trying to force this too much. Trying to humanize him too much. That's not the point of Superman. Yes he should want to relate to the human race because he was raised as one and loves us, but one, part of his character is that this is something he should NEVER be able to achieve (hence why being married and all that jazz doesn't work), but two, he's at the same time appreciated of the connection he does have to them. He may not ever be able to COMPLETELY relate and completely be immersed, but he can to a degree thanks to beling blessed to be raised by Jonathan and Martha, and having a genuine human side in the spiritual ways that matter the most. This is enough. Instead of wallowing in what he doesn't have he finds solace in what he does have. He finds the balance, and accepts that balance looks on the bright side of what he does have. He shouldn't go out of his way to "be more human", and "grounded" is one of the worst terms used in Superman lore. Anyone who uses that word should be forbidden from writing him its so overused. This is a man who can fly. The symbolism is shoved in your face immediately yet writers still try and deny it and tether him. He loves us, yes. But he also loves himself and his home world He's proud of being Kryptonian too. This is what is lost on so many writers.

He's human in the ways that matter most. In his compassion, his kindness, and his love. He doesn't need to and shouldn't be portrayed as constantly being on some wild goose chase to be "more human" than that. And that's not to say as a blanket rule that there can't be the occasional story of melancholy over a certain situation he can't relate to. Or a story where the berth between him and humanity is highlighted in some fashion. But not all the damn time and not at the expense of losing that he is proud and happy with who he is.