Diana Not Revealing The Undoctered Footage of Max Lord

[Baseman]

I know it seems like I'm beating a dead horse, but wouldn't Max being able to control Superman put him in that category of god like being?

Again, the Joker has an even more fearsome reputation despite not having powers.

I mean, the whole point of this was the public didn't even know about Max's powers to begin with.

That's different. Gothams full of crazies.Joker just happens to be the top psycho.So special circumstances apply.

[Agent Z]

That's different. Gothams full of crazies.Joker just happens to be the top psycho.So special circumstances apply.

And the DCU is filled with mega powerful people. Hell, Max himself said he basically did what Luthor had been trying for years.

[Outside_85]

I know it seems like I'm beating a dead horse, but wouldn't Max being able to control Superman put him in that category of god like being?

Again, the Joker has an even more fearsome reputation despite not having powers.

I mean, the whole point of this was the public didn't even know about Max's powers to begin with.

No, that makes him the guy that sold you your car. Thats the point I am trying to make; people of DC Earth believe Superman should be well above the likes of him.

People also know he is crazy and his victims usually aren't any more than regular humans.

This whole thing is about how the public sees people like Diana and Superman, Max and Brother Eye showed those two getting into a fight and then Max broadcast his own death world wide at the hands of Diana; in the public eye it was not Wonder Woman fighting a controlled Superman; it was Superman fighting a Wonder Woman that had gone off the rails. By the time they reached the courts, Diana knew her public rep was in ruins regardless of what the court decided, so she used Max and Eye's scheme and took all of the blame so Superman wouldn't be dragged down with her.

[Agent Z]

No, that makes him the guy that sold you your car. Thats the point I am trying to make; people of DC Earth believe Superman should be well above the likes of him.

People also know he is crazy and his victims usually aren't any more than regular humans.

This whole thing is about how the public sees people like Diana and Superman, Max and Brother Eye showed those two getting into a fight and then Max broadcast his own death world wide at the hands of Diana; in the public eye it was not Wonder Woman fighting a controlled Superman; it was Superman fighting a Wonder Woman that had gone off the rails. By the time they reached the courts, Diana knew her public rep was in ruins regardless of what the court decided, so she used Max and Eye's scheme and took all of the blame so Superman wouldn't be dragged down with her.

There were people defending Diana at the end of the trial though. One of them even mentioned Diana was not the first hero to kill and not all of them had been put on trial.

[Tayswift]

That whole thing was a schamozzle from go to whoa.

It started with Rucka having Wonder Woman argue with Superman and Batman about the need to have Dr Light [the male rapist one] put down like a rabid animal and ended in a title that wasn't even Diana's - mostly, I think, for the sake of expedience rather than telling a good story.

Wonder Woman looks bad for killing Max but not Cheetah or any number of other villains as bad or worse, while Superman looks bad for hiding the truth so that people can continue to see him as the unblemished paragon while Diana's reputation takes a pounding.

And in the end it was completely pointless because, as expected, Max didn't even stay dead.

Awful, awful, awful.

this is the problem of death on comics, majority of characters just don't stay dead

[Outside_85]

There were people defending Diana at the end of the trial though. One of them even mentioned Diana was not the first hero to kill and not all of them had been put on trial.

And while that is true, Wonder Woman is a different kind of hero than most, she joined Superman by setting the bar extremely high for herself by being one of the figureheads... the kind all that would follow in her wake should aspire to be. And it was that level she fell from.
The weird thing is ofc that Diana had killed before Lords, only the deceased were gods and monsters not humans.

[brettc1]

Because Diana is a hero and the others are villains, they had already fallen and Diana had not. Superman doesn't look worse in the public eye because the public doesn't know it was him that had gone south.



Starro is not Maxwell Lords, therein lies the difference. Max was not a gigantic extraterrestrial bit of seafood, he was one human jerk.

Superman looks bad to the reading audience is what I meant. And there is no difference between Max and the guy who stole Supermans body years ago and then used it to trash a city block, which was a matter of public record. The whole argument that people need to see Superman as totally immune to outside control argument is therefore rubbish because it has been shown over and over again that's it's not the case.

[Outside_85]

Superman looks bad to the reading audience is what I meant.

And there is no difference between Max and the guy who stole Supermans body years ago and then used it to trash a city block, which was a matter of public record.

The whole argument that people need to see Superman as totally immune to outside control argument is therefore rubbish because it has been shown over and over again that's it's not the case.

Hate to say it, but how we think and feel has no bearing on how people perceive things in the books, we readers are semi-omniscient observers while most people in the books can only see whats in front of them.

Never heard of that one.

You seem to overestimate what the public in DC actually knows about their heroes and underestimate the impotence of the symbols they provide.

[Carabas]

During the trial of Diana for killing Max, Kate Spencer (Manhunter) was given an undoctored version of the footage of Max Lord threatening to turn Superman loose on the populace. This was provided to her by Sasha Bordeaux. Diana says her reason for keeping this footage under wraps was to protect Superman's image.

Firstly, how did Kate not know of this tape's existence. In fact, how did she not know what Max did to Superman? Without that knowledge, there is no reason for her to believe Diana's innocence.

No. Why on earth would Kate know what went down in the headquarters of a superspy organisation? And why would she have access to footage of that?

Secondly, how did Diana get acquitted without this tape ever becoming public knowledge?

Ehm... I don't recall...

Thirdly, Diana's reason keeping this tape secret makes no sense. This is not the first time Superman was mind controlled. If Starro didn't ruin his reputation, how would this do that?

This was not Superman engaging in some standard comicbook supervillainous naughtyness.
This was the head of a US government agency saying he will use Superman to murder entire nations. It really is different.

[brettc1]

Hate to say it, but how we think and feel has no bearing on how people perceive things in the books, we readers are semi-omniscient observers while most people in the books can only see whats in front of them.

Never heard of that one.

You seem to overestimate what the public in DC actually knows about their heroes and underestimate the impotence of the symbols they provide.

Superman acting like a villain is a matter of record in the DCU in the same way people in the real world know the histories of high profile figures in our own. Since he wasn't arrested for the time the guy stole his body and attacked the city it's only common sense that people were told what really happened.

[brettc1]

No. Why on earth would Kate know what went down in the headquarters of a superspy organisation? And why would she have access to footage of that?


Ehm... I don't recall...


This was not Superman engaging in some standard comicbook supervillainous naughtyness.
This was the head of a US government agency saying he will use Superman to murder entire nations. It really is different.

No it isn't. Murdering nations is standard comic book villainy.

[Outside_85]

Superman acting like a villain is a matter of record in the DCU in the same way people in the real world know the histories of high profile figures in our own.

Since he wasn't arrested for the time the guy stole his body and attacked the city it's only common sense that people were told what really happened.

What you know about high-profile figures of our world is very much dictated what they and the people around them want you to know. Like take Jimmy Saville, now dead BBC presenter that for 2-3 decades were the hottest name on British TV was only recently revealed to be a pedofile.

What guy? And when did this happen? And what did Superman actually do?

[Carabas]

No it isn't. Murdering nations is standard comic book villainy.

It is now, perhaps. Eleven years ago, I recall them usually being a bit more restrained. In mainstream DCU books anyway.

And they never ever used mind-controlled superheroes to kill countries.

[brettc1]

What you know about high-profile figures of our world is very much dictated what they and the people around them want you to know. Like take Jimmy Saville, now dead BBC presenter that for 2-3 decades were the hottest name on British TV was only recently revealed to be a pedofile.

What guy? And when did this happen? And what did Superman actually do?

The very first issue of Action Comics are the Byrne reboot



Superman's body is stolen by the guy crutches, who transfers Supe's consciousness into his own human body. He then goes on a rampage and demolishes several city blocks as the Teen Titans try to restrain him. He is finally subdued by Jericho - which, incidentally, is yet another example of Superman [or at least his body] controlled by somebody else.

[brettc1]

It is now, perhaps. Eleven years ago, I recall them usually being a bit more restrained. In mainstream DCU books anyway.

And they never ever used mind-controlled superheroes to kill countries.

Villains have been known for decades to put the entire planet in danger. The entire cities of Bludhaven and Star City were obliterated by villains. You could argue that there's a difference between a city and a country but New York has a population as great as many of the world's independent nations, so really its just a question of size.

Meanwhile, way back in the 1990s, the Eradicator was trying to use Superman to destroy Earth's natural environment to make it into a copy of Krypton my manipulating his mind.