My very long Secret Wars/NuMU theory

[Spidercide]

Okay....look.

A reboot is nothing more and nothing less than this. A change in the characters/universe’s history wherein they are objectively now a different version from what they were before. it doesn’t matter how big or small those changes are, if there are changes (outside of one particular circumstance I’m gonna get to) it is a reboot. Zero Hour was a soft reboot. Crisis on Infinite Earths was a hard reboot. But they were both reboots, it didn’t matter that the post Zero-Hour universe was very similar to the pre-Zero-Hour universe.

I’m not talking about retcons, those are different.

Norman Osborn being alive after being dead isn’t a reboot because in the same narrative which stated he was dead clear cut explanations were provided detailing how in fact that wasn’t true.

Compare and contrast to say Crisis on Infinite Earths. Superman pre-Crisis was Superboy, saw his parents die, battled his childhood friend Lex Luthor who grew into a mad scientist. Post-Crisis he became a superhero as an adult when he came o Metropolis, his parents were alive when this happened and remained so for years thereafter, Lex Luthor met him when they were adults and was a corporate tycoon not a mad scientist.

It wasn’t as if we were following Pre-Crisis Superman’s narrative and then suddenly there were in-universe explanations telling us Luthor had actually always been a businessman, his parents had always been alive and he’d never been Superboy.

Different versions of the same character with a different history.

Spider-Man in One More Day is the same way. Pre-OMD Spider-Man married Mary Jane, they had a miscarriage, he met Mephisto and sold his marriage. Post-OMD Spider-Man missed his wedding, he and MJ presumably never got pregnant, he never encountered visions provided by Mephisto and never was made an offer and consequently he made no deal.

They are two different versions because they have life experiences which are not the same, although obviously if there was an Earth 617 Spider-Man with the exact same life experiences he’d be a different version too because he wouldn’t be from the same universe in the first place.

You can technically apply this to other Marvel time travel stories as well, such as ASM #500. In ASM #498-499 Spider-Man fought alongside other heroes and their accidentally brought Dormammu to Earth, which then led to Spidey travelling in time, winding back to moments before this happened and preventing it. Technically speaking everyone but him was now a different version because they lived a different life, one where Dormammu never invaded. However, I think for stories like that it is very different because the only things in the histories of the characters/universe that was changed were events that themselves were first established in the very story which was altering them.

That is to say we shouldn’t regard the Cyclops of post ASM #498-500 as a rebooted version because everything that was changed in his life after ASM #500 only happened in ASM #498-500 itself. It’s like something that was self-contained.

So with all this said...WAS the Marvel Universe:

a) Rebooted and now has a different history which you could witness if you time travelled backwards through any characters timeline
b) Was destroyed and the character we are meeting now are new creations based upon the old one, so no better than dirty clones
c) Actually the EXACT same versions of the characters we’ve been following since the 1960s but they simply died and got resurrected and shuffled around. E.g. the Doctor Doom appearing in Invincible Iron Man in late 2015 wasn’t a Victor Von Doom with a personal history different in some way from the pre-Secret Wars Doom. Nor was he a new version of Doom who shared a history/memories identical to the original man who’s story ended in Secret Wars #9. He is the EXACT same guy who played God in Secret Wars #1-9, who got beat by Richards and just got transported to the recreated Marvel Universe with a fixed face and no memory of what happened. Same deal with Tony Stark. He categorically died in the final incursion in Secret Wars #1, but just got brought back to life either by Doom (hence he was in Ultimate End) or by Reed and Molecule Man, and doesn’t realize what happened.
d) It’s still too early to tell.


I haven’t read EVERYTHING Secret Wars related or everything following in the wake of it, but based upon what I have seen I think options C and D seem the most likely as of this writing.

Allow me to elaborate.

Multiple characters Post-Secret Wars acknowledge and remember the events of the Incursions and in some cases Secret Wars itself. The Squadron Supreme book to my knowledge is literally BUILT upon the back of their worlds were destroyed. The Ultimates book makes it clear that people can’t remember exactly what happened 8 months ago and that the universe has been ‘renewed’ (not rebooted, renewed) resulting in a new isotope (or something) showing up that wasn’t around before. And they know that it didn’t previously exist, which is to say they are acknowledging the pre-SW state of things that they clearly remember living through.

Also, Silk in her second volume is interacting with her younger brother whom she discovered in her last vol 1 issue, an issue which was all about her dealing with the chaos of the final incursion hitting Earth. In other words, for Silk to be interacting with her brother that issue MUST have happened and so she MUST have experienced the final incrusion.

Additionally Web Warriors has the heroes of that series working together as a result of the Spider-Verse storyline from 2014, which again ONLY happened as a tie-in to the Incursions. Spidey-UK in that series is in fact still in mourning over the incursions killing his world and everyone he knew so they DID happen. Furthermore the roster of the Web Warriors is identical to the characters featured in the Spider-Verse mini-series during Secret Wars, where they came together as a team in the first place. The only difference is that Mayday Parker is also a part time member of the group, but she is sporting her new costume which she got in the Spider Island back up story from Secret Wars. That back up story which ALSO featured the Uncle Ben Spider-Man from Spider-Verse and had her clearly remembering her father’s death in Spider-Verse. Uncle Ben Spider-Man is also set to appear in Web Warriors.

[Spidercide]

All of which means the characters in Web Warriors are literally the same people from Battleworld and by extension the pre-Secret Wars multiverse and have the same history. They began life pre-Secret Wars, lived through Battleworld and then came out the other end into the recreated Multiverse. This is further backed up by the fact that over in Spider-Man 2099, Captain America 2099 from the Secret Wars 2099 mini-series is showing up on present day Marvel Earth and the apocalyptic future Miguel witnessed in Spider-Man 2099 volume 2 #9 is still there post-Secret Wars.

In fact universes that were wholesale destroyed in the Incursions as well as those brought into Battleworld have clearly been recreated. We know this because Spider-Gwen’s world of Earth-65 was destroyed in the incursions and not incorporated into Battleworld, but it has been recreated. At the same time though Mayday Parker’s world of the MC2 universe was part of Battleworld and has also clearly been restored as well.



This logically leads us to the conclusion that the Mainstream Marvel Universe we’re seeing Post Secret Wars is either the EXACT same place as the one before it, or it is an identical copy populated by the same versions of the characters who died in the incursions.

This is backed up by the fact that T’Challa in Secret Wars #9 is implied to remember what happened in Secret Wars and there doesn’t seem to be a different version of T’Challa running around. Which there would be if the post-SW Marvel Universe was a brand new place, particularly one with a brand new history.

Similarly it is very clear in Ultimate End #5 that the Miles Morales who wakes up to hug his mother is the same guy who was in Secret Wars and the same guy who watched his mother die in the Ultimate Universe, long before the incursions happened. We know this because he is both shocked and grateful to see his mother alive. If he was a new version of Miles who’d always been in this ‘new’ Marvel Universe he wouldn’t have those memories or inclinations.

Things get a bit iffy when one turns their attention to Contest of Champions which confusingly has as a battle zone (though I admit I skimmed this) Earth 61610...Ultimate End...as in the merged Earth from the eponymous Secret Wars tie-in.

Things get similarly iffy when it comes to Miles (along with his friends and family) simply being in the mainstream Marvel Universe as well as Wakanda being there when (to my knowledge) it was destroyed in Avengers vs. X-Men in 2012, around a year before ANY of the build up to Secret Wars started.

And yet, it MUST have been destroyed because again T’Challa is clearly happy to see his people alive again and he is also clearly not married to Storm (their break up directly resulting from Wakanda’s destruction). Furthermore status quos in the post-SW Marvel Universe exist off the back of pre-SW continuity which spun out of AvX. There mere fact that any of the time displaced teenage X-Men are still in the MU is testament to the fact that AvX happened as AvX was important to that happening.

Buuuuut...we can’t pass off Wakanda being there as the result of something that happened in the 8 months since Secret Wars. The moment Black Panther is transported to the ‘New Marvel Universe’ from Battleworld he is in Wakanda. This either means there was some time travel mumbo jumbo going on and he was transported there not immediately upon the MU’s recreation, or else Wakanda in this new MU was never destroyed.

But again that doesn’t quite add up...Unless it is what I described with Dr. Doom and Miles Morales. Everyone alive in Wakanda (and Wakanda existing) after Reed and Molecule Man defeated Doom aren’t new versions of those people or a new Wakanda.

It’s the same place with the exact same people, they were just reconstructed/resurrected. Were you to time travel back 10 years into their personal pasts (because there were 2 8 month time skips either side of Secret Wars, with Battleworld existing for 8 years) you’d find those same Wakandan citizens dead. But they and the world at large either don’t remember that they died, think that they came back through a different method, or else have some kind of psychic mindblock preventing them from dwelling too hard on the truth.

Such mental manipulations are not impossible in the MU as the Sentry did something like that to make everyone wholesale forget he existed, Spider-Man in One Moment in Time both erased people’s knowledge of his identity and instituted a mental block on them reconstructing that knowledge (see Norman Osborn in New Ways to Die) and of course everyone in the New Marvel Universe can’t quite remember what the Hell happened 8 months ago.

It’s even implied that similar mind blocks and mental manipulations were in place on Battleworld itself. In Spider-Verse, the various Web Warriors had vague memories of their past lives before Battleworld but couldn’t quite put the pieces together (see Spider-Gwen recalling herself as a drummer for the Mary Janes but not actually knowing who the Mary Janes were).

Additionally, as I said, Mayday Parker remembered her father’s murder at the hand of the Inheritor Daemos and acknowledges the Uncle Ben Spider-Man being a new addition to her family, all of which happened due to Spider-Verse. But if she lived on Battleworld and knows crossing between regions is forbidden and that there are no alternate realities, just Battleworld itself, then her remember Daemos and the events of Spider-Verse don’t make any sense...unless Doom was doing something to distract/rewrite the minds and memories of Mayday and her family.

The integration of Miles Morales and his family goes along with this logic.

He and his family are not from the mainstream universe but they are there NOW and (based upon what we’ve seen) he and his family/friends believe themselves to have ALWAYS been there. Like I said, in Ultimate End #5 the Miles who wakes up in the NuMU and greets his mother is the EXACT same guy who gave Molecule Man a burger and who watched his mother die in 2013 issues of Ultimate Comics: Spider-Man. He and his friends and family, along with everyone around them, just don’t realize they haven’t always been there. Which adds up with how Miles is shocked and happy to see his mother and then acts kind of dazed. We must also remember that he and Peter clearly know one another but they met in Spider-Men and then again in Spider-Verse, which means if we are following the same version of Miles (and since he was also a Liferaft passenger, the same version of Peter Parker) those interactions must have happened.

It’s just that Peter/Miles don’t remember those interactions or believe them to have happened differently.

[Spidercide]

And this wouldn’t be impossible since Dr. Doom using the Molecule Man was able to dupe an entire world full of people into thinking he was their God and the universe had always existed this way when it wasn’t. So the idea that Reed et al reconstructed the MU and then made it so people forgot/didn’t think too hard about Miles Morales/Wakanda being there, or else REMEMBERED the past differently thinking Miles was always there and Wakanda was never destroyed is entirely possible.

The idea that we are just seeing the old characters and universe that was always there reconstructed is also added up when you consider that the Beyonders and Molecule Man work on the basis of manipulating Molecules that are already there. E.g. Kang the Conqueror was vaporized in Secret Wars 1984 and then Dr. Doom with the Beyonder’s power resurrected him. He wasn’t a copy of the original, he WAS the original, his atoms just put back together. He also killed all the heroes (in Captain America’s case, doing it more than once) but he kept bringing them back to life over and over again. He wasn’t creating her versions of them though.

Similarly the Beyonder himself killed the New Mutants in Secret Wars II and then resurrected them as his lackeys. Later he relinquished his control and they remembered everything, including their deaths. Since this is a sequel to both Secret Wars it makes sense that similar rules would apply. That is to say, these are not new or altered/rebooted versions of the characters, merely the same ones with perhaps modified memories that they are ignorant of.

Think of it in terms of buildings.

We have a building called ‘the Marvel Universe’ with 100 rooms in it. One of those rooms is called ‘Wakanda’ and a few years ago it suffered severe flood damage.

Later on something came along and blew our building up. In fact it blew lots of buildings up, including one called ‘the Ultimate Universe’.

Somebody then took lots of bricks from the destroyed MU building and Ultimate Universe building and used them to make another building called ‘Battleworld’.

Then they pulled ‘Battleworld’ apart’ and took the same bricks from the old MU building and used them along with the other original bricks to rebuild the MU building exactly the way it was before it got blown up. Except they decided to put the water damaged ‘Wakanda’ room back the way it was before the water damage. And they also decided to add another room using bricks from the Ultimate Universe building and called that room ‘Miles Morales’.

And then everyone who used to live in the MU building got amnesia and forgot the house was ever blown up, that the Wakanda room ever got water damaged and that that new Morales room wasn’t always there.

And that, as of this writing and based upon everything I have read...seems to be what has happened with the Marvel Universe as a result of Secret Wars.

It’s not duplicate copy of what came before.

It’s not duplicate copy of what came before populated by identical copies of people who died in the final incursion.

It’s not a brand new place with a different history, populated by new rebooted versions of the characters who used to exist.

It’s the exact SAME place with the exact SAME history populated by the exact SAME people (plus a few old friends, the Wakandans, and some new residents, Miles) who are unknowingly picking up where they left off before the incursions interrupted them.

[TakoM]

Okay I haven't read it all because I have problem with my concentration today.

1.) The problem why it went wrong mainly is the other authors didn't know how it will all end before. The first ANAD stories came out in November, Hickman completed his work in December.

2.) There was no way to made up for all the crap the heroes did back in NA/TRO but Marvel always undo it stuff to basically go back to status q before. There was only 1 way to do it and that was erase what they have done from the time-stream including the incursion and beyonders. The big catch is Marvel wanted to let the history stay as it was this lead to a huge pile of contradictions by just doing both.( we change the history and we change it not)

I'm not sure if you found a way to entangle this but if so I congrats you mathematically speaking it would be a solve for a huge paradox.

I could add there are also a lot of other contradictions in the MU like switching from non-killing to killing moral view like changing panties for some characters, other thing is time-travel contradiction without end by just using to much time-travel.(e.g O5). There is also the problem that a lot of characters were rewritten by authors to fit just their need at exactly that moment so they ended up OOC -> more contradictions.

So for me every layer of the comic MU is broken at the moment. It can be properly argued about who did this the high-ups, editors or authors


The other thing like many said a lot of universes are gone which played a big story of the MU, AoA, HR, UU, MCU2 and a lot of others. (many by them weren't hit by the incursion the are gone because of other reasons)

I noticed this since some time first a lot of high profile characters went missing/dead like Jean Grey, Adam Warlock, Uatu , Nick Fury and a lot of others , the next thing was they went around destroying all the placed in space which were created by other authors , then on earth(some are back) and finally other dimensions .

In short for me the comic MU is sliced into pieces by an butcher. I don't complain about it but it has some DC 52ish feeling to it .

[ZNOP]

Okay I haven't read it all because I have problem with my concentration today.

1.) The problem why it went wrong mainly is the other authors didn't know how it will all end before. The first ANAD stories came out in November, Hickman completed his work in December.

2.) There was no way to made up for all the crap the heroes did back in NA/TRO but Marvel always undo it stuff to basically go back to status q before. There was only 1 way to do it and that was erase what they have done from the time-stream including the incursion and beyonders. The big catch is Marvel wanted to let the history stay as it was this lead to a huge pile of contradictions by just doing both.( we change the history and we change it not)

I'm not sure if you found a way to entangle this but if so I congrats you mathematically speaking it would be a solve for a huge paradox.

I could add there are also a lot of other contradictions in the MU like switching from non-killing to killing moral view like changing panties for some characters, other thing is time-travel contradiction without end by just using to much time-travel.(e.g O5). There is also the problem that a lot of characters were rewritten by authors to fit just their need at exactly that moment so they ended up OOC -> more contradictions.

So for me every layer of the comic MU is broken at the moment. It can be properly argued about who did this the high-ups, editors or authors


The other thing like many said a lot of universes are gone which played a big story of the MU, AoA, HR, UU, MCU2 and a lot of others. (many by them weren't hit by the incursion the are gone because of other reasons)

I noticed this since some time first a lot of high profile characters went missing/dead like Jean Grey, Adam Warlock, Uatu , Nick Fury and a lot of others , the next thing was they went around destroying all the placed in space which were created by other authors , then on earth(some are back) and finally other dimensions .

In short for me the comic MU is sliced into pieces by an butcher. I don't complain about it but it has some DC 52ish feeling to it .

I'm sure you intended to type untangle

[AnonymousODG]

My opinion: same characters, just resurrected.

A few characters weren't killed and needed no resurrection, just healed and teleported to their rightful locations. Same as Infinity Gauntlet. The events happened, a lot of characters died. Some were resurrected, others like Dr. Strange, Silver Surfer, Starfox who hadn't been killed were just teleported.

Just strikes me that Secret Wars resolution isn't all that different from other universe-ending events that Marvel has gone through. Genis-Vell destroyed the universe and changed bits of history. Reed did same with the Ultimate Nullifier during the Abraxas storyline. It's happened before and it'll happen again.

It’s the exact SAME place with the exact SAME history populated by the exact SAME people (plus a few old friends, the Wakandans, and some new residents, Miles) who are unknowingly picking up where they left off before the incursions interrupted them.

Yup.

[jackolover]

It's very good Spidercide, and makes sense.

I just want to know how Ultimates says this is the 8th version of reality, now, and this is why the Iso-8 exists, and this is why magical artifacts slipped through the cracks, why magic is not working right.

It sounds like the Buildings reconstructed in the 8th reality are from another universe, and been put into this new inverse, and the rules of this new universe are different, now.

[Spidercide]

Okay I haven't read it all because I have problem with my concentration today.

1.) The problem why it went wrong mainly is the other authors didn't know how it will all end before. The first ANAD stories came out in November, Hickman completed his work in December.

2.) There was no way to made up for all the crap the heroes did back in NA/TRO but Marvel always undo it stuff to basically go back to status q before. There was only 1 way to do it and that was erase what they have done from the time-stream including the incursion and beyonders. The big catch is Marvel wanted to let the history stay as it was this lead to a huge pile of contradictions by just doing both.( we change the history and we change it not)

I'm not sure if you found a way to entangle this but if so I congrats you mathematically speaking it would be a solve for a huge paradox.

I could add there are also a lot of other contradictions in the MU like switching from non-killing to killing moral view like changing panties for some characters, other thing is time-travel contradiction without end by just using to much time-travel.(e.g O5). There is also the problem that a lot of characters were rewritten by authors to fit just their need at exactly that moment so they ended up OOC -> more contradictions.

So for me every layer of the comic MU is broken at the moment. It can be properly argued about who did this the high-ups, editors or authors


The other thing like many said a lot of universes are gone which played a big story of the MU, AoA, HR, UU, MCU2 and a lot of others. (many by them weren't hit by the incursion the are gone because of other reasons)

I noticed this since some time first a lot of high profile characters went missing/dead like Jean Grey, Adam Warlock, Uatu , Nick Fury and a lot of others , the next thing was they went around destroying all the placed in space which were created by other authors , then on earth(some are back) and finally other dimensions .

In short for me the comic MU is sliced into pieces by an butcher. I don't complain about it but it has some DC 52ish feeling to it .

Yes there are other contradictions. I try to untangle some of those. Usually I simply say

“You established this back here. You are now going against it. Therefore what you are doing now is invalid unless we No. Prize this sucker...or if the present day stuff is more additive than it is deductive.” E.g. Harry Osborn clearly wasn’t a drug addict before the Drug Trilogy. It came out of nowhere..but it was VERY additive (and addictive to the series/character it’s allowable. Stuff like arbitrarily going to a “It’s okay to kill” policy isn’t unless the circumstances justify it. E.g. not killing Doc Ock because it’s immoral is fine, but it doesn’t mean that if Spider-Man was in the heat of battle and has to choose between moving fast to save his own lifeor letting a bad guy take a hit, he’s gonna sacrifice himself.

But with the tangles like this, when they get REALLY bad I simply say you allowed to build upon those contradictions for the sake of ‘course correction’. E.g. Norman Osborn was OOC in the Gathering of Five which means EVERYTHING with him therafter should be invalid, but thhe very next story was not only good but put his character back into a creatively healthy place so we let it slide.

I addressed the removal of universes in my post. The MC2 universe has clearly been restored as has Spider-Gwen’s world. It stands to reason EVERY destroyed universe was restored exempting ones specifically acknowledged as remaining destroyed. Potentially though it’s a time thing. Universes destroyed before a certain point remain gone (for now) but universes after that are now back.

Age of Apocalypse and House of M were never ‘gone’. Once time/reality was fixed they were spun-off into their own thing.


I think this isn’t much like the New 52 reboot. The Multiverse got destroyed and then put back with changes that were not egregious. We mostly came out ahead of where we were before.

My opinion: same characters, just resurrected.

A few characters weren't killed and needed no resurrection, just healed and teleported to their rightful locations. Same as Infinity Gauntlet. The events happened, a lot of characters died. Some were resurrected, others like Dr. Strange, Silver Surfer, Starfox who hadn't been killed were just teleported.

Just strikes me that Secret Wars resolution isn't all that different from other universe-ending events that Marvel has gone through. Genis-Vell destroyed the universe and changed bits of history. Reed did same with the Ultimate Nullifier during the Abraxas storyline. It's happened before and it'll happen again.



Yup.

I forgot Infinity Gauntlet but yes this is very much like that. Also House of M and Age of Apocalypse.

In AoA Storm and Bishop are somehow back in the present day but they were in Cairo in the past when Legion killed Xavier. When time was fixed they were back home and had vague memories of what happened.

And in House of M, Wanda put the universe back except Spidey woke up with MJ in Avengers Tower, not on Genosha where he was when the world changed.

It's very good Spidercide, and makes sense.

I just want to know how Ultimates says this is the 8th version of reality, now, and this is why the Iso-8 exists, and this is why magical artifacts slipped through the cracks, why magic is not working right.

It sounds like the Buildings reconstructed in the 8th reality are from another universe, and been put into this new inverse, and the rules of this new universe are different, now.

I suspect the ‘8th iteration’ thing might be referencing other times the MU has been messed up and renewed in masisve ways, E.g. House of M and Age of Apocalypse. I dunno what the other times might be, but point is this is the same universe. Like I said its the same building made from the exact same materials arranged in basically the exact same ways...this is just the 8th time it’s been rebuilt...so basically it’s like the Xavier instittute.

As for ISO-8 existing now...meh. Maybe it’s just like a by-product of the ‘renewal’. Or maybe it’s lke because this renewal is only 8 months old this stuff now exists.

Or maybe it’s just a Molecule Man trick. It’s something he could do after all.


Now I think on it this also squares with Dan Slott's Silver Surfer ongoing series wherein Eternity told the Surfer that the reconstructed marvel Universe is the Universe he knew and yet is also not.

If this were a truly all different universe there would be a different Silver Surfer. And if IS-8 can now exist in this reality and Miles has been added and so has a rebuilt Wakanda then technically it isn't 'the same'.

Again it's not the house you grew up in because it has an extension. Really it IS the same house but a bit extra. The same but not the same.

[Spidercide]

There is this brilliant podcast called Spectacular Radio and on thier latest episode Greg Weisman (who writes Starbrand and Nightmask for Marvel) was asked about some of the ins and outs of the post-Secret Wars universe.

Basically he said he doesn’t quite know the ins and outs and the depth of what happened but essentially elements from other alternate universes were combined into the mainstream Marvel universe but he stated that it is to his understanding that all the history DID still happen. It is why in his Starbrand and Nightmask series Kenny Kong from Ultimate Spider-Man under Bendis is a supporting character attending Empire State University. He did however state even the history where Starbrand and Nightmask died still happened but they are simply back now. It wasn’t like they were never dead to begin with.

He used the word reboot but said he isn’t personally sure what the correct term would be to apply to the situation, whether it was soft reboot or what.

I think though based upon this what I suggested on another thread basically holds up. This is the same Marvel universe and all the history is exactly the same, it’s just post secret wars now there are characters from alternate universes living there too, having migrated over. But it isn’t like they have a tangible history within Earth 616.

Kenny Kong in a sense went to high school with Ultimate Peter Parker and Ultimate Mary Jane and Ultimate Gwen Stacy, but he just doesn’t remember that apparently and believes he has a new history. It even adds up that he is attending ESU in Starbrand and Nightmask. In Ultimate Spider-Man Peter Parker transitioned from 15 to 16 by the time he ‘died’.

Kenny was in his class so Kenny at the time Peter died was also probably 16. Combine that with the one year time skip after Miles’ mother died, the elapse of time during the 8 months after Secret Wars, the 8 months before the final incursion and the amount of time that elapsed from Peter’s death up until that point and yeah Kenny would probably be about 18 or 19 and college age by the time of Starbrand and Nightmask.

Or else he is simply the 616 universe version of Kong.

Point is, if a reboot by it’s definition is a change to past continuity then Secret Wars is not a reboot.

Really Secret Wars was just Age of Apocalypse turned up to 11. Marvel Universe is wiped away. New universe/timeline replaces it. Things go back to normal with people not really rememebring what happened, maybe a few events specifcially tying into the destrouctive event being altered and then some characters migrate over into 616.

Miles Morales and the Maker are to the Post-SW Marvel Universe what X-Man and Holocaust were to the post Age of Apocalypse Marvel Universe.