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  1. #76
    Incredible Member Kees_L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    Oh I didn't find it lacking because we didn't see him raising hell's army or anything like that but simply because plot wise the story just stops. There's no real ending here, no real emotional impact or sense of catharsis for any of the characters involved or the readers. And I'm not looking for a happily ever after either, or to have everything all wrapped up nicely with a bow...but there has to be something definitive and we just didn't get that despite the beautiful art.
    Wow, I'm reading things totally the opposite from such I'd be to think, in how I feel I never could have guessed the depth and profundity in how

    A) Hellboy comes full circle, as becoming the destined Beast of the Apocalypse but as with bringing it onto the Ogdru Jahad moreso than on humanity, as such remaining uncannily devoted to Prof. Broom as well as any of his human friends;

    B) One of the most shocking outcomes of such being that the World or humanity may be getting more relief than I would have considered possible, depending on how swiftly Hell is to be made operational again (by means of the 'Pluto faction) since if Hell wouldn't be operational than the World would seem devoid of any future only the more;

    C) This level of respite and even some hope for the cause of the B.P.R.D. (although not Abe I'd reckon') appears to indicate to me, that it may come to be that the Bureau is gonna have to be taking on that aforementioned 'Pluto faction', since those dudes/dudettes might still become a threat more rather than a blessing. And if I was to bet on the best new Satan, I'm thinking Liz Sherman, ultimately.

    Although for me the big blind spot seems primarily how the Ogdru Jahad stuff would be to develop, since I'd be feeling clueless on that. I don't think the B.P.R.D. could stand a real chance on battling or containing that, but I feel there isn't much sense of time with those beings. And them on their own, as with their main instrument (being Hellboy) gone, it might take aeons yet for much any doom to come from those critters. And Abe I need to read up on, but as far as I know he seems Darwin's worst nightmare pretty much.
    SLINT / Mike Mignola / Walt Whitman / Arthur Louriι / Dr. Pepper

  2. #77
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    I reread the 10 issues again. I am not sure if this was the end of Hellboy's story. Sir Edward Grey made it seem like there were things left that he had to do. His ex-wife noted that for him to have a new life he had to finish this one. While he has lost his crown and father's sword his ex wife has the ring. I cant wait for a Mignoversity article to shed more light on issue 10 and the future going forward.

  3. #78
    Resistance Is Fertile Junior Wormwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    Oh I didn't find it lacking because we didn't see him raising hell's army or anything like that but simply because plot wise the story just stops. There's no real ending here, no real emotional impact or sense of catharsis for any of the characters involved or the readers. And I'm not looking for a happily ever after either, or to have everything all wrapped up nicely with a bow...but there has to be something definitive and we just didn't get that despite the beautiful art.
    I can absolutely relate with what Guardian is saying here as I felt issue 9 to be a little jarring at first. After having reread the whole HiH series in one go, my feelings on this have changed. I have a few thoughts on this -

    I've been scouring the internet this past week for interviews, write ups, articles on the ending of the series, and what the future holds for Hellboy and the Mignola books. I have a feeling that whatever dangling plot-lines or characters we're left unsure of will be explored in the other books, particularly after reading Mike and Scott's thoughts on what Chris Roberson is gonna bring to the table. I'm hoping the last issues of Abe Sapien will address something of HiH, particularly with Alice, Edward Grey, and the new world tree. I think it would be interesting to hear what everyone feels needs more exploring, or character/story elements that are left unanswered. Thoughts?

    I also find it interesting that all along, Hellboy simply had to decide to become the beast of the apocalypse. There didn't need to be a lot of fanfare around it, he just simply had to say "yes". Once this decision was made, he made incredibly short work of destroying anything and everything in his path (therefore only requiring one issue for ultimate impact). This only emphasizes just how powerful he was, and why the entire pantheon of beings was either scared of him or jockeying for a position in The End he would bring about. Rather brilliant I would say.

    The position that Mike and Hellboy are in now allows the character to become so surreal and abstract it fills my head with insane possibilities should Mike decide to play with the character again in the future. Hellboy could become so malleable and liquid that he could essentially be the stuff of dreams. In my mind he wouldn't even have to resemble the physical Hellboy any longer, but merely the spirit of a being that once existed on the physical plane. Mike could create any world, set any subject or character in it, and that character could be "Hellboy". A whisp of wandering smoke, a hive-mind insect in a strange alien colony, a reincarnated Buddha... The possibilities are endless. In this fashion Mike could draw and write absolutely ANYTHING he wanted, and it could be considered to be a single narrative solely on the fact that the protagonist is now beyond the limits of physics, science, or time and space. I don't know... I like the idea, but I may be alone in this.

    Regardless of any of this, I think there's still much more to come in the last few issues of Abe Sapien and BPRD that will surprise us.
    Last edited by Junior Wormwood; 06-06-2016 at 02:20 PM.

  4. #79
    Incredible Member Kees_L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junior Wormwood View Post
    all along, Hellboy simply had to decide to become the beast of the apocalypse. There didn't need to be a lot of fanfare around it, he just simply had to say "yes". Once this decision was made, he made incredibly short work of destroying anything and everything in his path (therefore only requiring one issue for ultimate impact). This only emphasizes just how powerful he was, and why the entire pantheon of beings was either scared of him or jockeying for a position in The End he would bring about. Rather brilliant I would say.

    The position that Mike and Hellboy are in now allows the character to become so surreal and abstract it fills my head with insane possibilities should Mike decide to play with the character again in the future. Hellboy could become so malleable and liquid that he could essentially be the stuff of dreams. In my mind he wouldn't even have to resemble the physical Hellboy any longer, but merely the spirit of a being that once existed on the physical plane. Mike could create any world, set any subject or character in it, and that character could be "Hellboy". A whisp of wandering smoke, a hive-mind insect in a strange alien colony, a reincarnated Buddha... The possibilities are endless. In this fashion Mike could draw and write absolutely ANYTHING he wanted, and it could be considered to be a single narrative solely on the fact that the protagonist is now beyond the limits of physics, science, or time and space. I don't know... I like the idea, but I may be alone in this.

    Regardless of any of this, I think there's still much more to come in the last few issues of Abe Sapien and BPRD that will surprise us.
    But doesn't the fact that Hellboy being the Beast of the APOCALYPSE mean that he sets in motion the inescapable total destruction of mankind both as all living things, despite whatever new (Trees Of) Life as forming?

    Or at least that would be and have always been my reasoning.

    I'm positively shocked at how the world could even continue now that Hell is nigh empty and Hellboy is gone.

    But to me it isn't only Hellboy's departure as seeming needed and appropriate albeit very chokingly definitive, but all which this would be representing, namely that all life would now appear in need of ending as a result of Hellboy being Doom, the result of Hellboy being The End of the World.

    It seems the story matter will certainly continue for a good while yet, like another TPB worth of current BPRD plus a Mignola/Roberson teamed writing-wise(?) run of Edward Grey at least, next to possibly more such as well as a boatload of flashback Hellboy & the B.P.R.D. from what I understand, but still.

    I really do think Hellboy has come full circle with his destiny being bringer of Doom onto the World, sooner more rather than later. Not merely as being *his* end, but *The end* even if *new life* would become again due to the creator deity the Ogdru Jahad (which I'm betting will have to be flying monkeys).
    SLINT / Mike Mignola / Walt Whitman / Arthur Louriι / Dr. Pepper

  5. #80
    Rookie Member mscorley's Avatar
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    What I'm curious of now, is if that Memnaa Saa vision of Hellboy returning to BPRD to help them at the end will happen.

    Since he still.. exists, and Hell is.. destroyed? or irrelevant? I'm not sure, but maybe he could leave if he so chose and go to help the crew out and fulfill that photograph.

    Or in the end was it actually just a fake thing for Liz to see.

  6. #81
    Incredible Member Kees_L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mscorley View Post
    What I'm curious of now, is if that Memnaa Saa vision of Hellboy returning to BPRD to help them at the end will happen.

    Since he still.. exists, and Hell is.. destroyed? or irrelevant? I'm not sure, but maybe he could leave if he so chose and go to help the crew out and fulfill that photograph.

    Or in the end was it actually just a fake thing for Liz to see.
    The graphical depicting of Hellboy together with the B.P.R.D. in apparent photographs, eventhough Hellboy clearly departed from being among that outfit,

    (in my view because of understanding that as being the Beast of the Apocalypse he'd be forming the absolute nemesis both as trouble-magnet for the agents of the Bureau,)

    I think it's possible and perhaps even likely that Martin Gylfrid a.k.a. Memnan Saa as being after getting inside Liz's head was either manipulating her,

    or it could be Liz's mind was just pointing out how Hellboy would never pop up on happy reunion photos as how the dreamlike photo visions are making felt?

    With Hellboy gone it seems to me those 'photos' appear further from becoming a reality than ever. But that's just me obviously.
    SLINT / Mike Mignola / Walt Whitman / Arthur Louriι / Dr. Pepper

  7. #82
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    It was a spectacular issue, and i am glad that my befuddlement wasn't due to my not remembering all the particulars about the Hellboy universe.
    This was my impression, (which could be way off base). Hellboy becomes the Beast and defeats all the lords of hell, he then rejects that roll and as the defacto ruler, remakes hell to his desire, now resembling an EBritish seaside village.
    Hellboy is still in hell, but it's the hell he chooses it to be.

  8. #83
    Mighty Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edhopper View Post
    It was a spectacular issue, and i am glad that my befuddlement wasn't due to my not remembering all the particulars about the Hellboy universe.
    This was my impression, (which could be way off base). Hellboy becomes the Beast and defeats all the lords of hell, he then rejects that roll and as the defacto ruler, remakes hell to his desire, now resembling an EBritish seaside village.
    Hellboy is still in hell, but it's the hell he chooses it to be.
    I'm totally cool with that, but I think it was a robbed of a lot of its impact being told second hand. It lacked the punch I felt it needed.

  9. #84
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    My Current Theories

    Has Hellboy caused the apocalypse?

    Yep. Unless a work around can be fabricated, he has directly or indirectly caused the deaths of all of The Watchers barring Pluto. These were the beings who both created and imprisoned the Ogdru Jahad the first time out, and without them to assist the possessor of the secret fire (Liz) wielded by the Watcher's right hand (Hellboy) imprisoning them again is very unlikely.

    Are all of the Ogdru Jahad free?

    It's inevitable. They are the seven that are one. Now that one is free, they all are.

    Is Hellboy dead?

    Sort of, I guess? Death for Hellboy seems to be an incredibly fluid thing. On Earth, he suffered mortal death several times, and just came back to life. His "death" at the end of The Fury seemed to have more to do with the removal of his heart that anything else, but I don't think it's that simple. I think he's in Hell because that's where Nimue is, and she still has his heart. I think that if he gets it back from her, he could go back to Earth.

    What?

    I mean, why not, right? Hellboy seems to be the only demon for whom death follows these weird rules. All of the other demons, Watchers included, get one death in Hell. When they're torn apart by the servants, or get their throats slashed while reclining on their awesome brooding-thrones that's it. Dunzo. Hellboy follows different rules. He lets himself get impaled on a tree just to see if he can die in Hell, but finds out he can't. Why? The former-human denizens can die. The demonic denizens can also expire. Is his life being artificially maintained by Nimue, who is keeping his heart as a trophy in Hell someplace?

    And could he travel back to Earth? Demons don't seem to have that much difficulty travelling to Earth anywhere else in the Hellboy universe. Varvara just chose to stay without any actual preamble, and Hellboy's uncle used to appear out of the blue with alarming ease. Why couldn't Hellboy do the same?

    What do the shapes mean?

    I have four theories.

    1. The shapes mean Hellboy is dead and finally at rest. Mignola is the snake, who feels torn by the end of his time with his "best friend" and doesn't really want to let go, but will always remember his time with the character fondly.

    2. Hellboy is witnessing Mignola's encounter with the shapes. For the creator of such an arguably successful character who has time and time again said he expected to release just one Hellboy miniseries and then to end up going back to DC and doing occasional one off creator owned projects, he must have felt like he was the Magician, who overextended his powers and pulled off a trick far beyond his capabilities. He's now at a point in his career where it is time for an ending, and Hellboy, as a surrogate for all of us, doesn't want Mignola to go.

    3. Hellboy is literally dead. Any other appearance will be in flashback form.

    4. My favourite theory, and the one that I want the most, is that the shapes aren't at all representing what we would expect. In The Magician and the Snake, the shapes return to a magician who had previously sent them away using his magic, vanished from his world for years. Is it possible that these shapes are currently waiting for Hellboy to arrive so that they can return to whichever magician sent them away, bringing Hellboy along on the journey and returning him to Earth for the final cataclysm? Is Hellboy done as the beast of the apocalypse? Is the apocalypse ultimately a mercy kill that Hellboy is doomed to perform?

  10. #85
    Rookie Member mscorley's Avatar
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    You know what I was thinking after I re-read issue 10, if the final panels with Hellboy walking to that house, if he had two normal arms/hands.. that would be profound.

    The weight finally being gone, literally.


    (not saying I could improve on what Mike did! Just thinking out loud)

  11. #86
    Incredible Member topfueluhl's Avatar
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    After reading issue #9 and coming to realize the snake in issue #2 guiding Hellboy down the stairs to kill Satan is his ex-wife, I think maybe that could also be her on the #3 cover where his hand is dripping blood. What does anyone else think of my theory?

    Hellboy_in_Hell_03.jpg
    Last edited by topfueluhl; 06-09-2016 at 06:56 PM.

  12. #87
    Resistance Is Fertile Junior Wormwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mscorley View Post
    You know what I was thinking after I re-read issue 10, if the final panels with Hellboy walking to that house, if he had two normal arms/hands.. that would be profound.

    The weight finally being gone, literally.


    (not saying I could improve on what Mike did! Just thinking out loud)
    Years ago I did a couple of Hellboy sketches. One of him visiting Trevor's grave, and another in which there's someone or something off-panel removing the stone hand, tears running down Hellboy's face. I'll dig them up and post them if anyone's interested.

    And topfuelhl, I think that's perfectly reasonable, although I imagine Mike would simply say, "Sure!"

    Speaking of Mike... He just said the following on Facebook -

    "It wasn't intended to be Harry's place but if you guys want it to be it certainly can be. That ending is open to all kinds of personal interpretation."

    And there you go.

  13. #88
    Astonishing Member Joker's Avatar
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    Yeah, it didn't look exactly like Harry's place. The layout of the building was different, but similar.

    As for the snake on #3, it wasn't intended. He said that was all a retcon once he got to 9. If you go back, there are plenty of snakes, some of which could certainly be her if you want. As Mike said, some of it is open to interpretation.

  14. #89
    Incredible Member topfueluhl's Avatar
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    I know Mike said he never planned the snake to be her before he got to issue #9. I'm also glad he said so much is open to interpretation, because I want it to be her.

  15. #90
    Astonishing Member Joker's Avatar
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    Even if it wasn't planned to be, it seems to very much be her now.

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