The Mighty Thor, #4

[jphamlore]

Even in Aaron's first arc he indicated Thor Odinson's approaching destiny was to go live near the Sun and be a cop to the gods.

The way Aaron's story has gone, Thor Odinson cannot intervene because Asgard has not yet been overrun by the forces of evil. When that time comes, I predict Thor Odinson will appear with a host of other gods as allies to help save the day.

[zoch]

Poor Thor! Not only has Marvel made him lose his hammer, his arm, his clothes and his name but also his claim to be Odin's heir.

All of that happened so Aaron can have his publicity stunt in Jane-Thor can't wait until this over so we can have real Thor back hopefully with different writer still can't get over the name it not a mantle its his birth name he had centuries long before even got the hammer doesn't make sense on top of that Aaron written Thor to lose his hammer his name have arm cut off made dress like pathetic hobo with no cloths who apparently can't nothing without hammer which again doesn't make any sense even without the hammer he's still powerful being son of Odin and Gaia (Elder God) which why Odin choose Thor be his Heir due fact that Thor lot more powerful then other Asgardians even his siblings like Angela and Balder.

[Ken Ashcroft]

I don't know exact issue, but it was Fraction's run that a lot of this stuff got added in. He made a lot of tweaks to things, Frigga to Freyja, that a child of her and Odin is the true heir, it all comes from his run. I know his run wasn't the greatest, but... it is canon.

Balder is still Odin and Freyja's son, it's just that since they were not yet married, he loses out on a technicality. (I think, basically, Fraction really wanted the whole Aesir/Vanir prophecy baby thing, so came up with an excuse why Balder did not count... and then Aaron promptly ignored Freyja being pregnant, and left it to Gillen to wrap it up in Angela anyway. ) And he and Tyr are both dead right now, anyway. It seemed like maybe Balder had been brought back, but he's in Hel with Tyr in Angela's book right now. I think the broad strokes of all the siblings origins remain the same, but the order in which they were born is always being changed. A couple of them (Hermod and Vidar) have not been mentioned in many years, just... completely ignored recently, as if they had never existed. They may be dead, they may just have ran off and chosen to ignore their screwed up family, they may no longer be canon, I dunno, they just fell off the table at some point. The only mention of them I know of recently was Hermod being a contact on Loki's phone, but that was just an easteregg type thing.



Eh, we already know he will end up king one day anyway. Not under the best of circumstances, true, but....

All of Odin's children are still heirs to the throne. They are all still princes/princesses. They just can't all be first in line. All it will take is for Angela to be bumped off at some point, or to have Aaron make some changes to the rules of ascension in the story because everyone realizes it would be a really BAD IDEA to let Angela rule due to her being raised as an angel, just like the Frost giants would never accept Loki ruling them even if he IS the biological son of their king and technically is Laufey's heir. But he's spent so much time in Asgard at this point that while he may boilogically be a frost giant, he has virtually nothing in common with them, he's even changed his appearance, and is for all intents and purposes an Asgardian at this point. It's the same deal with Angela, except it's the Angels who raised her. The difference is that Laufey is a complete dick and has no qualms about killing Loki to simplify the situation. Something I don't think Odin would do with Angela, even in his current state of mind. Aaron did co-write the 10th Realm series where Angela was revealed to be Odin's daughter, so he must have realized what it would mean, and then bringing back Laufey... I think he's clearly going to be diving into the whole issue of whether it's who raised you or who birthed you that is important.

I'm surprised that a writer would use or carry on ideas that were done by previous writers .They normally tend to ignore any continunity problems and just use their stories and ideas of how a character should be written. For example when JMS was the writing he had Thor's life force linked to Mjolnir and any damage to Mjolinir could potentially kill Thor. There's been several writers since then yet none one else had been this all. Afterall if it's still in continunity and I can't remember seeing it been retconned then that would have probably been the first thing on Thors mind when Janes runs off with his hammer.

[Ken Ashcroft]

Zoch, I would agree with you on what you posted earlier. also it makes no sense to have Thor going around in the state that he currently is in. Plus how is it that Mjolnir apparently considers Thor unworthy yet it still holds on to HIS powers and giving to to 'worthy' people to use? Why would it grant a unworthy persons power to a worthy person?

[jphamlore]

Zoch, I would agree with you on what you posted earlier. also it makes no sense to have Thor going around in the state that he currently is in. Plus how is it that Mjolnir apparently considers Thor unworthy yet it still holds on to HIS powers and giving to to 'worthy' people to use? Why would it grant a unworthy persons power to a worthy person?

Aaron showed us in his very first arc with the three Thor Odinsons from different times why this one became unworthy: Because he cannot be Midgard's protector against the likes of Roxxon's CEO Dario Agger. Observe the young Thor Odinson just wanted to play with humans on adventures and is unworthy to wield Mjolnir, whereas King Thor in the far future is Earth's protector. I don't know how much more clearer Aaron could have done this within his stories.

[Smoov-E]

Aaron showed us in his very first arc with the three Thor Odinsons from different times why this one became unworthy: Because he cannot be Midgard's protector against the likes of Roxxon's CEO Dario Agger. Observe the young Thor Odinson just wanted to play with humans on adventures and is unworthy to wield Mjolnir, whereas King Thor in the far future is Earth's protector. I don't know how much more clearer Aaron could have done this within his stories.

Just because all that was written doesn't mean people have to comprehend it all when reading it, it gets in the way of complaining

Now be careful before someone comes along and tells you to get the hell off their lawn while saying that's not their Thor

[Alpha to Omega]

Aaron showed us in his very first arc with the three Thor Odinsons from different times why this one became unworthy: Because he cannot be Midgard's protector against the likes of Roxxon's CEO Dario Agger. Observe the young Thor Odinson just wanted to play with humans on adventures and is unworthy to wield Mjolnir, whereas King Thor in the far future is Earth's protector. I don't know how much more clearer Aaron could have done this within his stories.

Then how was King Thor worthy? Since he couldn't protect Earth either, seeing as how it was a completely dead world until after the Gorr arc.

[penthotal]

Then how was King Thor worthy? Since he couldn't protect Earth either, seeing as how it was a completely dead world until after the Gorr arc.

Worthy / unworthy it's not winner / loser. Young Thor wasn't able to lift the hammer because he was still not mature enough, King Thor has probably learned the lessons current Thor ignores, the fact than he gets defeated by the God Slayer doesn't mean it's unworthy. It's like saying that a good doctor that understands his mission is, say, to cure people and not to make a lot of money, is not a worthy doctor if he fails some of his surgeries.

[Ken Ashcroft]

Aaron showed us in his very first arc with the three Thor Odinsons from different times why this one became unworthy: Because he cannot be Midgard's protector against the likes of Roxxon's CEO Dario Agger. Observe the young Thor Odinson just wanted to play with humans on adventures and is unworthy to wield Mjolnir, whereas King Thor in the far future is Earth's protector. I don't know how much more clearer Aaron could have done this within his stories.

Sorry if I'm just too stupid to understand buts it's not that clear at all to me. You are saying that Aaron is trying to say that Thor cannot Earth's protector anymore and is not worthy of lifting Mjolnir anymore because his way of helping and protecting the people of Earth is not effective against the likes of Roxxon and the way that corporations like theirs operate?

That's what Nick Fury whispered to Thor that caused him suddenly and instantly to become unworthy?

[whiterabbit]

What are the odds the book relaunches next year to issue #1 with Thor taking his hammer just before his movie comes out?

[Ken Ashcroft]

Or maybe they will keep Jane Foster Forster around as another Thor. It's like Marvel wants to keep everyone happy.We going to have two Captain Americas soon. There's already currently two Spider-Mans so ending up with two Thors wouldn't surprise me at all.

[jphamlore]

Sorry if I'm just too stupid to understand buts it's not that clear at all to me. You are saying that Aaron is trying to say that Thor cannot Earth's protector anymore and is not worthy of lifting Mjolnir anymore because his way of helping and protecting the people of Earth is not effective against the likes of Roxxon and the way that corporations like theirs operate?

That's what Nick Fury whispered to Thor that caused him suddenly and instantly to become unworthy?

TL;DR: Mjolnir chose Jane Foster over Thor Odinson for the moment because Jane Foster is willing to use Mjolnir's powers to protect Midgard to the best of her ability, while Thor Odinson isn't.

I think Jason Aaron has a beautiful unified theory of magic in the Marvel Universe, so I will try to refine what I said.

I believe Aaron's view of magic is that it demands the user go "all-in" at the moment of use. That is why there is a price to pay for using it. He has I believe shown this in his Doctor Strange.

Aaron depicted Thor Odinson losing to Dario Agger and Roxxon, with Broxton destroyed. I believe Aaron in an interview said something about Roxxon being a threat Thor Odinson could not defeat with his fists. And that's the conflict: the Odinson has the immense power of Mjolnir but due to other constraints he is unwilling to use it. That in my opinion enabled Nick Fury to render the Odinson instantly unworthy by a simple phrase, whatever it was.

I believe Aaron communicated this to Hickman during one of Marvel's creative retreats. Thus we see Hickman depicting the Odinson as becoming worthy for one moment: When he knows he is about to die in battle with his ally Hyperion against the Beyonders. At that moment the Odinson is worthy because he would be willing to use the full might of Mjolnir to defend Midgard, thus ironically he became unable to use the unworthy hammer.

I think we see the same dynamic in Aaron's depiction of the god killing weapon that Gorr used and also how Dario Agger as a boy acquired the powers of the Minotaur. I believe the magic artifacts / beings sensed that Gorr and Dario Agger were willing to go "all-in" using these magic weapons to their full power, thus they were given that power.

So Jane Foster is at the moment worthy because she is both willing to pay a tremendous price physically and is willing to use the full power of Mjolnir to defend Midgard.

Incidentally, I suspect Dario Agger made the usual supervillain fatal mistake of explaining his origins. This provides a legal excuse for the Odinson to return and use the full power of Mjolnir against him, especially if as I conjectured a long time ago, the Minotaur is actually channeling something from Mangog.

[Raye]

I don't really have anything to add, but we'll said, jphamlore. To be fair, it is something that takes more than a surface reading to see, so I understand why some people don't get it, especially since a lot of superhero comics are all about the surface. But I am sure Aaron will spell it all out in time. Aaron tends to kind of plant seeds with themes and little clues that aren't always apparent at first, but in hindsight it all ties together. You often go back and see a story you at first thought was kind of filler and suddenly see it in at new light.

[Alpha to Omega]

I don't really have anything to add, but we'll said, jphamlore. To be fair, it is something that takes more than a surface reading to see, so I understand why some people don't get it, especially since a lot of superhero comics are all about the surface. But I am sure Aaron will spell it all out in time. Aaron tends to kind of plant seeds with themes and little clues that aren't always apparent at first, but in hindsight it all ties together. You often go back and see a story you at first thought was kind of filler and suddenly see it in at new light.

Or you get complete crap like Aaron's Hulk run or Original Sin.

[Raye]

I prefer to judge writers at their best rather than their worst. Every writer around, even the very best, has had a dud or two, no reason to let those taint everything else. (also, never read his Hulk run, not a fan of the character) I've enjoyed a lot of Aaron's stuff, including his Thor stuff so far, so I know he's capable of pulling off something great with this.