"Batman and Robin Eternal" #20 Hints at Huge Status Quo Change for Dick Grayson

[CBR News]

In "Batman and Robin Eternal" #20, Dick Grayson learned something that could change his life forever.


Full article here.

[Gotham Thrasher]

I like this. Much better then a deal with the devil. Maybe Dick will do a solid for Clark and put that genie back in the bottle too!

[GDC3]

Johns and Van Sciver Nightwing Rebirth maybe?

[Kurisu]

A huge regression, you mean.

[dan12456]

A huge regression, you mean.

If they have him fill the same role as Nightwing who cares. Nightwing is an infinitely cooler/more marketable identity than Agent 13. The issue is if they take him off the spy/global aspect and put him back on the street as a character whose series has to revolve around Batman crossovers.

(Edit: Or Agent 37. The identity is so unmemorable apparently I can't even remember the number lol)

[JBatmanFan05]

If they have him fill the same role as Nightwing who cares. Nightwing is an infinitely cooler/more marketable identity than Agent 13. The issue is if they take him off the spy/global aspect and put him back on the street as a character whose series has to revolve around Batman crossovers.

This. Nightwing is a big historical beloved persona. And way more marketable. Dick was always gonna go back to Nightwing, no one should have doubted that.

(When there's a Nightwing movie someday, you'll definitely know how right the switch back was)

[sifighter]

With this, Titans Hunt, and Robin Wars DC comics really is trying to set up Dick Grayson's return to being Nightwing, which isn't a terrible thing since even as a spy he was still swinging around and having a lot of fun as he usually would. As long they don't completely do away with his connections to the spy world, meaning I'd like to see some of his supporting cast from Grayson show up from time to time.

[Godlike13]

Whatever. Going back to Nightwing was inevitable, but don't just have him pull out his previous Nightwing suit from the trunk of his car and put it on. Give us an honest to goodness return of Nightwing deal. Im talking new trendy suit (thats blue!), new stakes, new mission, that whole deal. For the love of god incorporate Grayson into Nightwing to give us a new and revitalized Nightwing. Basically don't do what they're doing in Titan Hunt.

[Maxpower00044]

A huge regression, you mean.

I've also agreed with this, but if they can somehow balance the Nightwing persona while keeping this fresh take on Dicky G., I'd be all for it.

As long as the keep the same tone and let Dick have his own corner in the DC, I don't care what they call him. When he goes back to Batman-lite, that's where the problems arise.

[Doctor Bifrost]

I'm sorry, but if Spyral has a device that can actually mind-wipe the entire human population - and, apparently, while we're at it, change all physical evidence in the form of newspapers, TV video archives, articles, and of course every computer memory in existence - then why don't they already rule the world?

Personally, I much prefer Nightwing to Dick Grayson, Agent of Spyral. But using an absurd deus ex machina to get there is cheap, cheap, cheap! It's just a statement that says, "Well, we've had our fun; we didn't bother to think about how to clean it up; so now we'll just find a way to pretend that it never happened." The rough equivalent of Bobby Ewing walking out of the shower.

I think stories are more interesting when characters have to work at dealing with their past choices. Maybe Dick Grayson would have to take on a new name, and create a new civilian life for himself. Maybe he can be Nightwing but make a few changes to convince everybody that this is a new Nightwing. (Like Oliver Queen did on the Arrow TV show - it wasn't utterly convincing, but at least they made a good-faith effort.) Maybe it's time that someone who has been Robin, Nightwing, and Batman should create a new superhero ID. (I'm not allowed to say that, because as an older reader I hate change.) But giving a spy agency the power to do a world-wide mind-and-evidence wipe, which would have been awfully handy in their previous efforts but they didn't bother with, because only helping out Dick is worthwhile? It just feels like the writers are bored with what they've created.

I admit freely that I am only reacting to the contents of this issue. Maybe they will, in actually, do something much more interesting. I'm willing to be wrong. But they put those contents there, so they should expect readers to react.

Why not just use the Rebirth Retcon Reboot Relaunch Rebranding for this, since they're going to do that anyway?

[Dzetoun]

Personally, I much prefer Nightwing to Dick Grayson, Agent of Spyral. But using an absurd deus ex machina to get there is cheap, cheap, cheap! It's just a statement that says, "Well, we've had our fun; we didn't bother to think about how to clean it up; so now we'll just find a way to pretend that it never happened." The rough equivalent of Bobby Ewing walking out of the shower.

I think stories are more interesting when characters have to work at dealing with their past choices. Maybe Dick Grayson would have to take on a new name, and create a new civilian life for himself. Maybe he can be Nightwing but make a few changes to convince everybody that this is a new Nightwing. (Like Oliver Queen did on the Arrow TV show - it wasn't utterly convincing, but at least they made a good-faith effort.) Maybe it's time that someone who has been Robin, Nightwing, and Batman should create a new superhero ID. (I'm not allowed to say that, because as an older reader I hate change.) But giving a spy agency the power to do a world-wide mind-and-evidence wipe, which would have been awfully handy in their previous efforts but they didn't bother with, because only helping out Dick is worthwhile? It just feels like the writers are bored with what they've created.

Well, as Badou has pointed out, it bespeaks that the entire plotline of Nightwing's identity being revealed wasn't well thought out. There seem to have been several plot points like that involving Grayson over the past couple of years. I am not blaming the writers, as these various storylines were handed to them by editorial and they just had to do the best they could. In this case, they were handed the storyline of Nightwing's identity, and likely told to find some way to bring it to an end. What's a writer to do?

Now, I will really set the cat among the pigeons, . King said in his last podcast that the story of Dick and the Owls will be told as part of Rebirth. Grayson is going to end with Dick making his "greatest sacrifice" to save his loved ones. Yes, solicit text is pretty much meaningless. Still, doesn't this all sound kind of like the situation we had going on three years ago with the blonde Nightwing that Tynion was going to write to tie into Batman Eternal? Have we come in a circle and ended up more-or-less where we started?

[Badou]

I've asked this before in other threads and no on really answered it, but why do you want him to be Nightwing again? Is it really just the name and bland suit that you want or is there more to it? Things he can only do as Nightwing that he is otherwise unable to do and it makes it the best path for him to take? That is what I don't understand.

[RoyImpulse]

I've asked this before in other threads and no on really answered it, but why do you want him to be Nightwing again? Is it really just the name and bland suit that you want or is there more to it? Things he can only do as Nightwing that he is otherwise unable to do and it makes it the best path for him to take? That is what I don't understand.

I agree. I don't understand what going back to Nightwing does for him, either.

[JasonTodd428]

I agree. I don't understand what going back to Nightwing does for him, either.

Me neither. Seems like a regressive move to me and a recipe for mediocrity as well. Not to mention a direct invitation to every Bat crossover that happens going forward.

[Pohzee]

I've asked this before in other threads and no on really answered it, but why do you want him to be Nightwing again? Is it really just the name and bland suit that you want or is there more to it? Things he can only do as Nightwing that he is otherwise unable to do and it makes it the best path for him to take? That is what I don't understand.

I'd prefer Dick globetrotting to Batman-lite, but I will say: Nightwing is a more recognizable name than "Agent 37" and the Nightwing suit (in nearly any form) looks better than the Grayson suit, which is to me visually disinteresting. I think most people who dislike Grayson are against it primarily because he's not called Nightwing, which sucks since there much more to a character and a story than a name.