"Batman and Robin Eternal" #20 Hints at Huge Status Quo Change for Dick Grayson

[Mundungus]

Nightwing as the global response "Batman."

[Badou]

DC had 30 years to promote Nightwing and it never really took. Him going back to the identity is a step back and is going to fall into the same trappings as always. It isn't a strong identity or costume. Plus this just hammers home the idea that they never really had a plan in exposing his identity all along.

[JBatmanFan05]

Besides Nightwing being an important and historical and popular and marketable superhero persona, as much as I TOTALLY think spy was fair ground for a Dick Grayson run, Dick Grayson isn't a spy character. Wally West was not a private detective or ace photographer, and maybe you could do a run with him in those roles, but ultimately...that's not him.

[Vinsanity]

Besides Nightwing being an important and historical and popular and marketable superhero persona, as much as I TOTALLY think spy was fair ground for a Dick Grayson run, Dick Grayson isn't a spy character. Wally West was not a private detective or ace photographer, and maybe you could do a run with him in those roles, but ultimately...that's not him.

People know him as Robin not Nightwing. All the major stuff Dick Grayson has been Robin (Batman Forever, Batman and Robin, Batman TV Show). Your normal person on the street will tell you that Dick Grayson is Robin. I would say that NW is not that marketable or popular than what comic book fans really think.

[JasonTodd428]

People know him as Robin not Nightwing. All the major stuff Dick Grayson has been Robin (Batman Forever, Batman and Robin, Batman TV Show). Your normal person on the street will tell you that Dick Grayson is Robin. I would say that NW is not that marketable or popular than what comic book fans really think.

I would have to agree. Years ago when they had the vote to kill off Robin a lot of people on the street thought they were killing off Dick Grayson only comic fans knew it was Jason Todd under the mask at that time and not Dick.

[Doctor Bifrost]

I'm sorry, but if Spyral has a device that can actually mind-wipe the entire human population - and, apparently, while we're at it, change all physical evidence in the form of newspapers, TV video archives, articles, and of course every computer memory in existence - then why don't they already rule the world?

Personally, I much prefer Nightwing to Dick Grayson, Agent of Spyral. But using an absurd deus ex machina to get there is cheap, cheap, cheap! It's just a statement that says, "Well, we've had our fun; we didn't bother to think about how to clean it up; so now we'll just find a way to pretend that it never happened." The rough equivalent of Bobby Ewing walking out of the shower.

I think stories are more interesting when characters have to work at dealing with their past choices. Maybe Dick Grayson would have to take on a new name, and create a new civilian life for himself. Maybe he can be Nightwing but make a few changes to convince everybody that this is a new Nightwing. (Like Oliver Queen did on the Arrow TV show - it wasn't utterly convincing, but at least they made a good-faith effort.) Maybe it's time that someone who has been Robin, Nightwing, and Batman should create a new superhero ID. (I'm not allowed to say that, because as an older reader I hate change.) But giving a spy agency the power to do a world-wide mind-and-evidence wipe, which would have been awfully handy in their previous efforts but they didn't bother with, because only helping out Dick is worthwhile? It just feels like the writers are bored with what they've created.

I admit freely that I am only reacting to the contents of this issue. Maybe they will, in actually, do something much more interesting. I'm willing to be wrong. But they put those contents there, so they should expect readers to react.

Why not just use the Rebirth Retcon Reboot Relaunch Rebranding for this, since they're going to do that anyway?

[Dzetoun]

Personally, I much prefer Nightwing to Dick Grayson, Agent of Spyral. But using an absurd deus ex machina to get there is cheap, cheap, cheap! It's just a statement that says, "Well, we've had our fun; we didn't bother to think about how to clean it up; so now we'll just find a way to pretend that it never happened." The rough equivalent of Bobby Ewing walking out of the shower.

I think stories are more interesting when characters have to work at dealing with their past choices. Maybe Dick Grayson would have to take on a new name, and create a new civilian life for himself. Maybe he can be Nightwing but make a few changes to convince everybody that this is a new Nightwing. (Like Oliver Queen did on the Arrow TV show - it wasn't utterly convincing, but at least they made a good-faith effort.) Maybe it's time that someone who has been Robin, Nightwing, and Batman should create a new superhero ID. (I'm not allowed to say that, because as an older reader I hate change.) But giving a spy agency the power to do a world-wide mind-and-evidence wipe, which would have been awfully handy in their previous efforts but they didn't bother with, because only helping out Dick is worthwhile? It just feels like the writers are bored with what they've created.

Well, as Badou has pointed out, it bespeaks that the entire plotline of Nightwing's identity being revealed wasn't well thought out. There seem to have been several plot points like that involving Grayson over the past couple of years. I am not blaming the writers, as these various storylines were handed to them by editorial and they just had to do the best they could. In this case, they were handed the storyline of Nightwing's identity, and likely told to find some way to bring it to an end. What's a writer to do?

Now, I will really set the cat among the pigeons, . King said in his last podcast that the story of Dick and the Owls will be told as part of Rebirth. Grayson is going to end with Dick making his "greatest sacrifice" to save his loved ones. Yes, solicit text is pretty much meaningless. Still, doesn't this all sound kind of like the situation we had going on three years ago with the blonde Nightwing that Tynion was going to write to tie into Batman Eternal? Have we come in a circle and ended up more-or-less where we started?

[Badou]

I've asked this before in other threads and no on really answered it, but why do you want him to be Nightwing again? Is it really just the name and bland suit that you want or is there more to it? Things he can only do as Nightwing that he is otherwise unable to do and it makes it the best path for him to take? That is what I don't understand.

[Rakiduam]

Well, as Badou has pointed out, it bespeaks that the entire plotline of Nightwing's identity being revealed wasn't well thought out. There seem to have been several plot points like that involving Grayson over the past couple of years. I am not blaming the writers, as these various storylines were handed to them by editorial and they just had to do the best they could. In this case, they were handed the storyline of Nightwing's identity, and likely told to find some way to bring it to an end. What's a writer to do?

Now, I will really set the cat among the pigeons, . King said in his last podcast that the story of Dick and the Owls will be told as part of Rebirth. Grayson is going to end with Dick making his "greatest sacrifice" to save his loved ones. Yes, solicit text is pretty much meaningless. Still, doesn't this all sound kind of like the situation we had going on three years ago with the blonde Nightwing that Tynion was going to write to tie into Batman Eternal? Have we come in a circle and ended up more-or-less where we started?

Well, at the time it was more the general suspicion that Tynion writing Dick wasn't a good idea or good for the character, now it's a certainty.

[Godlike13]

People know him as Robin not Nightwing. All the major stuff Dick Grayson has been Robin (Batman Forever, Batman and Robin, Batman TV Show). Your normal person on the street will tell you that Dick Grayson is Robin. I would say that NW is not that marketable or popular than what comic book fans really think.

With people who have a passing interest of Batman theres a good chance they know of or at lest heard of Nightwing. I mean yes, Robin is more known, but between the cartoons, video games, and even the recent string of animated films Nightwing is out there. Not out there as much as Robin, but still nevertheless out there. Not that im in any hurry to see Dick go back to Nightwing. Even though its inevitable.

[RoyImpulse]

I've asked this before in other threads and no on really answered it, but why do you want him to be Nightwing again? Is it really just the name and bland suit that you want or is there more to it? Things he can only do as Nightwing that he is otherwise unable to do and it makes it the best path for him to take? That is what I don't understand.

I agree. I don't understand what going back to Nightwing does for him, either.

[Pohzee]

I've asked this before in other threads and no on really answered it, but why do you want him to be Nightwing again? Is it really just the name and bland suit that you want or is there more to it? Things he can only do as Nightwing that he is otherwise unable to do and it makes it the best path for him to take? That is what I don't understand.

I'd prefer Dick globetrotting to Batman-lite, but I will say: Nightwing is a more recognizable name than "Agent 37" and the Nightwing suit (in nearly any form) looks better than the Grayson suit, which is to me visually disinteresting. I think most people who dislike Grayson are against it primarily because he's not called Nightwing, which sucks since there much more to a character and a story than a name.

[JasonTodd428]

I agree. I don't understand what going back to Nightwing does for him, either.

Me neither. Seems like a regressive move to me and a recipe for mediocrity as well. Not to mention a direct invitation to every Bat crossover that happens going forward.

[gwangung]

I'd prefer Dick globetrotting to Batman-lite, but I will say: Nightwing is a more recognizable name than "Agent 37" and the Nightwing suit (in nearly any form) looks better than the Grayson suit, which is to me visually disinteresting. I think most people who dislike Grayson are against it primarily because he's not called Nightwing, which sucks since there much more to a character and a story than a name.

Yeah, pretty much this.

Nightwing and the costume are visually distinctive. But most of the adventures in Bludhaven are pretty much Batman-lite in their very conception.

I don't mind the return of the costume as long as they do something DIFFERENT than costumed superhero. Espionage is different. Counter-espionage against the various DC intelligence agencies is different. Somebody who can battle black ops on their ground is different.

Do something, do anything....just don't have hime set up shop in a city as the resident crime fighter....

[The Kid]

I agree with what everyone is saying about him being a spy being a better fit. I hope that if he is Nightwing again, he doesn't just move to Bludhaven and become Batman-lite. I wanna see Dick traveling the world and interacting with all parts of the DCU without getting bogged down by Bat-crossovers.

Also, although I'm not surprised, I kind of wish they didn't remove everyone's memory of Dick's identity. I don't see why Nightwing couldn't be a public hero like Captain America.