Avengers Controversial Opinions II

[Nomads1]

Wonder Man is my favorite Marvel character, but I think Vision is awsome also. The design could use an update, maybe (can't say I liked the one he got over at Avengers AI. Too bland and uninspired, IMHO), but Vision is a fantastic character. His powers make him a powerhouse while still giving him incredible versatility. As for his personality, he's different from most other characters, and that in itself makes him great. IMHO, the worst they could have done with him was humanize him too much, such as Englehat eneed up doing. Many people vilify Byrne's desconstruction of the Vision, but, though I do think he went too far, missing completely the point of the character, for me, it was something that needed to be done, the character had hit a creative deadend. That certain coldness and awkwardness need to remain part of the character, an eternal incomprehension of humanity with ocasional glimpses of raw human emotions. Of course, if anybody only knows Vision from the last ten years or so (ever since Geoff Johns Avengers run, really), they really won't understand what the hubba-hubba is all about.

Peace

[Kuwagaton]

I've always thought Wonder Man and Vision both looked good. I like the safari jacket, and Vision looks cool when an artist knows how to make him look haunting or distant.

However, the characters aren't as interesting to me as I'd like, and the associations with Hank and Wanda kinda kill it.

[Nomads1]

Just read about people wanting Remender to be fired for a scene with Jet Black in Captain America #22. Wow, tasteful or not, people really need to get a life, getting worked up over something like this. Really, that has, IMHO, become a serious problem for comics nowadys, it's all become about diversity, representativity, political correcteness, and even using that for shock. In the middle of all that, simply telling an original and exciting story got lost somewhere. It became all about style over substance. Honestly, had the Internet been around then, Marvel might have gone out of business with Avengers #200 with Ms. Marvel's rape by the son she herself gave birth to (admitedly, a badly concieved story), if not with X-Men #1 and Professor X's lustful and pedophille thoughts towards minor Jean Grey. Plus, Colossus and Kitty Pryde's highly improper puppy love? And DC might have faced serious problems due to the Killing Joke and what Joker did to Barbara Gordon there. And I'm not discussing the rightfulness of these acts, just saying that for good stories to be told, somethimes bad things have to happen to good people, and not every story is necessarily a statement.
People really need to chill a bit.

Peace

[CSTowle]

I (for the life of me don't know why but) bought the JRJr run of Remender's Captain America and had no idea in that costume that Jet was supposed to be 14. I don't think this Sam Wilson booty call was "rape", but it's a little iffy. From the Marvel site's "Psych Ward" entry on the character:

She presents in session in inappropriate attire, which seems to be owed to her unfamiliarity with the cultural norms of both therapy and this dimension. The writer has broached the topic with her and attempted to engage her in a discussion about what it would mean to continue to resist the norms around clothing and what it would mean to adapt to them. However, she has remained largely disinterested in engaging in these kinds of emotional explorations. Again, this could be a reflection of the cultural norms of her dimension. It may also be a manifestation of her maturity level, which seems to be much lower than would be expected for someone of her age.

More on Marvel.com: http://marvel.com/news/comics/2013/9...#ixzz36nZ4AWAC

So even if she's "23", she grew up most of her life on the run in an alternate dimension. She seems to have the personality of a young teen. If written by someone who respected the Falcon's character more than cheap shock value this almost certainly never would have happened. I'll agree the calls to fire him are a bit much though, especially if his calling for fan suicide wasn't enough.

[MyriVerse]

I've always thought Wonder Man and Vision both looked good. I like the safari jacket, and Vision looks cool when an artist knows how to make him look haunting or distant.

However, the characters aren't as interesting to me as I'd like, and the associations with Hank and Wanda kinda kill it.

The problem is, I guess, that many people see it as a 70s-style leisure suit jacket. However, I've always taken it for a leather jacket (like the kind Eccelston Dr Who wore.. only red, cuz superhero).

But yes, my love for that jacket is one of my controversial opinions.

As is my opinion that Simon is a better Avenger than Janet.
And Hank Pym has fully overcome any bad stuff he's ever done... like decades ago (our time).
And Spidey and Wolvie make excellent Avengers.
And Uncanny Avengers is Xavier's "dream" team, even if the roster could be better.

[Nomads1]

Controversial opinion: the Avengers have way too many big guns.
I mean, sure, you need firepower to deal with big threats, but it just leaves you to believably deal with one kind of threat. Look at all the HUGE guns that the team currently has: Thor (constantly jobbed so that other big guns can shine, or a villain can prove what a bas ass he is), Starband, Hyperion, Hulk, Doc Strange, Captain Universe, Rogue/Wonder Man, Blue Marvel (plus, what's with the gult of Superman analogues? Hyperion, Sentry, Blue Marvel, not to mention Wonder Man... How many do they need?), Photon, etc... Plus other big guns that haven't been used in a while, such as Sersi, Vision, Hercules, Ares, Gilgamesh, etc....
Not that I want them to go back to the Bendis days' of street level team. The teams need to be better dosed, better balanced, and, IMHO, a house clean up should be done. which brings me to my next controversial opinion: Writers should stop bringing in new members and recycle more older line-ups. Be creative, and bring back older members to fill the story need you have, instead of fitting it with your perfect piece.

Peace

[TheMadTitan]

Controversial opinion: the Avengers have way too many big guns.
I mean, sure, you need firepower to deal with big threats, but it just leaves you to believably deal with one kind of threat. Look at all the HUGE guns that the team currently has: Thor (constantly jobbed so that other big guns can shine, or a villain can prove what a bas ass he is), Starband, Hyperion, Hulk, Doc Strange, Captain Universe, Rogue/Wonder Man, Blue Marvel (plus, what's with the gult of Superman analogues? Hyperion, Sentry, Blue Marvel, not to mention Wonder Man... How many do they need?), Photon, etc... Plus other big guns that haven't been used in a while, such as Sersi, Vision, Hercules, Ares, Gilgamesh, etc....
Not that I want them to go back to the Bendis days' of street level team. The teams need to be better dosed, better balanced, and, IMHO, a house clean up should be done. which brings me to my next controversial opinion: Writers should stop bringing in new members and recycle more older line-ups. Be creative, and bring back older members to fill the story need you have, instead of fitting it with your perfect piece.

Peace

I think you just need to spread them out a bit more. More units, each with a bruiser or two.

[XPac]

I think you just need to spread them out a bit more. More units, each with a bruiser or two.

Well, the thing about Hickman's Avengers team is that they USUALLY don't operate as one massive unit. Against an uber threat like Thanos or the Builders they all assemble... but generally speaking the seem to break up into smaller units.

And I actually think that makes sense. Having a large pool with many interchangable parts allows for a lot of versatility both from an in-story and from a storytelling perspective. It's SORT OF like the old Justice League Unlimited cartoon (though not to quite the same scale) vs the regular Justice League cartoon. Rather than the same 8 guys dealing with mission after mission, teams could be formed dependent on the situation. You can have 5 Avengers show up, or 25 Avengers show up depending on the threat level.

[Nomads1]

I think you just need to spread them out a bit more. More units, each with a bruiser or two.

Actually, I would also go for lesser units. I would prefer a larger team that can split up when necessary (though perhaps not as large as Hickman's Legion of Avengers).

Peace

[Knight of DC]

Well, the thing about Hickman's Avengers team is that they USUALLY don't operate as one massive unit. Against an uber threat like Thanos or the Builders they all assemble... but generally speaking the seem to break up into smaller units.

And I actually think that makes sense. Having a large pool with many interchangable parts allows for a lot of versatility both from an in-story and from a storytelling perspective. It's SORT OF like the old Justice League Unlimited cartoon (though not to quite the same scale) vs the regular Justice League cartoon. Rather than the same 8 guys dealing with mission after mission, teams could be formed dependent on the situation. You can have 5 Avengers show up, or 25 Avengers show up depending on the threat level.

Also, it's worth remembering that the team is intentionally designed to be this damn powerful. This team should be able to handle any threat that comes at them, whether Thanos, the Builders, e.t.c. All so Tony can focus on the true threat, the Incursions. This incarnation has been the mask so the Illuminati can work in secret, at least until now.

[Wellman]

I actually think the Avengers big guns are actually under utilized.

Now we know the likes of Thor, Hyperion, Captain Marvel, Starbrand and a few others are heavy hitters capable of destroying most armies but we rarely if ever get to see them cut loose. Personally, I think this should change and I am not saying they need to face a Count Nefaria style threat every month, I would just like see the bigger guns used as such. Especially the new ones like Smasher, Starbrand and the like who could use a few good action scenes to build themselves some fan support.

[XPac]

Also, it's worth remembering that the team is intentionally designed to be this damn powerful. This team should be able to handle any threat that comes at them, whether Thanos, the Builders, e.t.c. All so Tony can focus on the true threat, the Incursions. This incarnation has been the mask so the Illuminati can work in secret, at least until now.

And I think that sort of shows the difference in how Stark is handling the Avengers.

Historically, the Avengers have sort of used a core group (Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Wasp, etc) with "fate" dealing with major roster changes. Steve in particular was a big believer in fate making up Avenger line ups anytime the team was disassembled.

I think Stark was more pragmatic in terms of team design by building up a machine that could handle pretty much anything. And it makes sense from an in-story perspective to do that, though I can understand not every writer wanting a team like that. Teams like Hickmans often makes it harder to tell more character driven stories (hence we getting satelite books like Avengers Assemble and Avengers World to fill that gap). But on paper at least it DOES make sense to have a big team filled with uber heavy hitters. It almost seems stupid not to in the world they live in.

[Nomads1]

And I think that sort of shows the difference in how Stark is handling the Avengers.

Historically, the Avengers have sort of used a core group (Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Wasp, etc) with "fate" dealing with major roster changes. Steve in particular was a big believer in fate making up Avenger line ups anytime the team was disassembled.

I think Stark was more pragmatic in terms of team design by building up a machine that could handle pretty much anything. And it makes sense from an in-story perspective to do that, though I can understand not every writer wanting a team like that. Teams like Hickmans often makes it harder to tell more character driven stories (hence we getting satelite books like Avengers Assemble and Avengers World to fill that gap). But on paper at least it DOES make sense to have a big team filled with uber heavy hitters. It almost seems stupid not to in the world they live in.

I actually think that Stark's approach makes much more sense than Steve's "let's leave it in the hands of fate" one (which does seem kind of strange for such a master tactician, but maybe it's supposed to emphasize his more idealistic side). Not of filling the team with übber-cannons, but to actually plan the team you are building (such as they did around Avengers #220, when Thor, Iron Man, Cap and Wasp argue about what the team needs). It also makes sense in front of something Iron Man also used to say a lot (especially during Busiek's run). The units are to small to be diversive. Most of the times, when we fans are team-building in these threads, we go for what the team needs in term of power much more than in terms of personality (of course, we always try to dose that with characters we like, and think will have good chemestry with each other, harmonical or disruptive chemestry). A good Avengers team always has to have a couple of übber-bricks, two or three powerful, yet diverse members, another three or four low-powered or costumed athlets, and you also have to find a way to throw in a magic-user (which they don't always do, but, IMHO, they should) and you can't forget, of course, a couple of tech/science guys. It's a formula, that, IMHo, works quite well when selecting an interesting team of earth's Mightiest Heroes.

Peace

[Dark Chris]

Vision is the heart of the team and Captain America is the soul. These are the two absolutely essential Avengers. And then Hawkeye and Iron Man (and probably Thor).

Spider-Man had to be a full-time Avenger a long time ago.

Wasp is not that essential to the team.

But there has to be an Ant-Man/Giant Man/whatever. And I would prefer Pym.

When Marvel decides to make Cyclops a good guy in the eyes of the rest of the Marvel Universe, he should lead a team. For example, the Unity Squad. He is as good a strategist as Cap and even more powerful.