How Image can break up the Big 2

[Nick Miller]

And they have great creators!

Hickman
Remender
BKV
Fraction
Kelly sue
Brubaker
Millar

And all thier awesome art partners

They all make kickass comics, and the market share is only 10%.

They rule the trades though, so Image has that going.

[dogwelder]

Image only has 9.75% of the trade sales.

[wwise03]

The way DC is behaving towards their readers these days, Image may yet be one of the big 2. Not because they suddenly gain a big market share, but because DC keeps loosing readers.

I may have agreed with you until DC announced $2.99 books. That is huge. Now someone can go into a comic book store and pick up Batman, Detective Comics, Action Comics, and Justice League (4 big DC books probably done by fantastic creative teams) for $12. Someone is far more likely to get those 4 books than try 3 new image books, which are now $3.99 (say The Fix, Cry Havoc, and Renato Jones) for $12.

Speaking of $3.99 image books, I remember Stephenson bragging less than a year ago about how image books are $2.99 or $3.50. I'm not seeing as many of those now. That is not exactly treating fans well.

[JKtheMac]

The issue of the big two is not really about breaking their perceived control of the industry. The issue is more about who makes comics and who profits from them. Recently Image challenged the idea that creator owned comics don't make money. They brokered a number of high profile deals with prominent writers and artists, which pushed their agenda. The big two only share the cash when a comic goes into profit, and that thorny issue is at the heart of all publishing.

Companies create profit and loss accounts for each major work and offset the costs of marketing and printing against profit. They do this in an arcane and often unfair way, such that artists don't get paid properly for their effort. And of course there is the whole issue of 'work for hire' that festers away until somebody finally stands up and challenges the constitutional rulings of the U.S. Courts.

What the Image deals prompted was a reaction from Vertigo, and to some extent Marvel with Icon. We are now seeing equally high profile deals with more creative ownership available across the industry. For some writers and artists the Image deal is not quite so good. If they are not interested in marketing and promotion they will always struggle to push their books, because those things are now mostly their responsibility. Companies like Marvel and Vertigo will offer a certain amount of marketing as part of their creator owned package.

Also there is a suspicion that some of the more favourable deals at Image were loss leaders. They make good headlines and lots of goodwill from high profile media savvy creatives. But, those deals are probably not available for everyone wanting to publish at Image. It's all a big gamble for Image, possibly unsustainable but worth a punt.

Image would hardly want to break the big 2, the idea that competition is bad is intrinsically flawed anyway. Image clearly want to be seen as an alternative, and one that can command a reasonable market share and produce good quality product. Whether offering better deals to the talent will get them that goal is still uncertain.

[HsssH]

For me main "problem" with Image is that they don't own anything. What happens when Kirkman decides to stop writing TWD? Or if Vaughn/Millar decides to move his stuff to some other publisher? Image's market share would drop significantly.

In itself its not a bad thing, I just don't see Image growing much more beyond these 10%.

[Joker]

For me main "problem" with Image is that they don't own anything. What happens when Kirkman decides to stop writing TWD?

Then, as it should, the story ends. Just like any other fiction, outside of American superhero comics and television.

[HsssH]

But we aren't talking about stories here, we are talking about market share.

[Joker]

We're talking about both. You brought up a story ending, and I'm saying that's an okay thing. Hopefully Image can keep good titles on its roster and maintain sales.

TWD and Saga are lightning in a bottle and those don't happen very often. It's on readers to be willing to step outside the superhero titles they've been trained to read and be loyal to. It's on publishers to get good work out to the readers.

[JFP]

We're talking about both. You brought up a story ending, and I'm saying that's an okay thing. Hopefully Image can keep good titles on its roster and maintain sales.

TWD and Saga are lightning in a bottle and those don't happen very often. It's on readers to be willing to step outside the superhero titles they've been trained to read and be loyal to. It's on publishers to get good work out to the readers.

When you say "it's on the publishers to get good work out to the readers", are you talking about Image? If so, Image actually doesn't do that. They'll publish it and that's it. It's the creators who get the work out to people. Creators are in charge of promoting the work and selling them to the retailers. That's what I was talking about before with other posters: expecting creators to have the resources to challenge the Big 2 by themselves is unrealistic. I've read some disheartening stories about indie creators trying to get comic stores to take on their comics only to be met with scorn an derision. I posted a link to some pictures of my LCS. The product space for the Big 2 in that store is easily 75% of the store. There are many stores across America where more than half the store is dedicated to Big 2 products. In addition, many times I've gone to comic stores and asked for recommendations, only to be given Marvel or DC recommendations. When I ask for something besides superhero titles they give a few titles but don't seem interested in getting me interested in some of their other titles. I find it amazing how the staff at most comic shops I've been to have little or no interest in titles outside the Big 2.

It's not entirely the reader's fault they can't get into comics outside superhero titles. How can you expect readers to step outside the box when the comic shops promote the Big 2 far more than they promote indies?

[Joker]

It's still on the publisher to know what is good work and publish that and let readers know it exists. Image will market your book, I believe. That money just comes out of your back end pay. You want a preview in the back of The Walking Dead? You have to pay for it, but there isn't a better book to get seen in. It's not an ideal situation, but you reap all the rewards. Pros and cons.

As for shitty retailers, that's an individual problem, and outside of preordering what you're interested in from said retailer, I don't have an answer. I'd be willing to wager that most people who can afford comics can afford and have the internet, so it's not like your retailer's racks is the only place to find out what's out there.

Part of that is on the publisher, which is what Image+ is attempting to do, and why they've gone with TWD origin story as a reason to look at it.

[HsssH]

We're talking about both. You brought up a story ending, and I'm saying that's an okay thing. Hopefully Image can keep good titles on its roster and maintain sales.

TWD and Saga are lightning in a bottle and those don't happen very often. It's on readers to be willing to step outside the superhero titles they've been trained to read and be loyal to. It's on publishers to get good work out to the readers.

I don't disagree with anything you said, but really, I'm not talking about that. My point is very simple, if Image is to "overtake" big two they need lots of high selling series. Since big sellers aren't owned by them they can't keep pushing new stuff with them forever like DC or Marvel. As such they need to find more "hits" than any other publisher to maintain their market share. Possible, but in my opinion unlikely.

[Dark-Flux]

But a title doesnt become a bit hit by virtue of being work for hire.

[HsssH]

Batman comic having bad writing and bad art is likely to sell more than good comic from Image featuring some new things. Absurd, but thats how things are.

[Galerion]

Batman comic having bad writing and bad art is likely to sell more than good comic from Image featuring some new things. Absurd, but thats how things are.

Im wondering why that is even an discussion. I see this trend among some people that they talk about "quality" and that the comics they are reading from some smaller companies are so much better. The thing is that that stuff is irrelevant and doesn't matter at all when it comes to sales. Everywhere you go you see people praising Vision for example but it's actually not one of Marvel better selling titles.
Franchises and characters matter. A lot. If I for example want to read about Batman then I will go out and buy Batman and I couldn't care less about how good and how much work was put into a random indy comic. It doesn't contain Batman so it's automatically uninteresting to me.
That's why Image will never be able to beat the big two. Their stuff won't have the mainstream attention and the amount of passionate fans that sustain them the same way things like X-Men, Avengers, Batman, Spider-Man, etc. have.
Is that sad and even outright unfair to all the people who put all their hard work in the stuff they are producing? Yes, it is but that's how the industry works.
This is the case for most industries though. Many musicians can work as long and hard as they want, they will still never attain the legendary status of a Michael Jackson for example. That's just how it is.

[Javasaurus]

Granted, the discussion here is centered on the question of whether Image can ever reach a market share that will offset that of the Big 2. I also concede that franchises and characters can make a difference in that game. Yes; people who want Batman books or X-books will only ever find them in the respective kingdoms of DC and Marvel. But I start to cringe when I read statements bordering on "quality of work is irrelevant." If quality of work is truly not important in the big picture (and mediocrity becomes the accepted norm) then the comics industry deserves to fade into nonexistence; as does any industry.

What matters to me is a comics industry that is strong, thriving, and sustainable for the long-term. I'd venture a guess that others here feel the same. I'd also venture to add – as a part of achieving that goal – the industry needs to strive for high standards of storytelling and creativity.