Green Lanterns: Rebirth? Green Lanterns?

[JaggedFel]

Been lurking the forum for awhile, and I agree with DeathFalcon182. And no, I'm not the white fanbase you're talking about as I am an African american man.

It's not about diversity in this case, it's about John Stewart with you. If it was about diversity, you'd support more than just John Stewart. You'd post with the same conviction about characters of other races and background.

Have you supported Cyborg? A book that was written by a black man, and starring a popular black character?

Are you pushing for a book starring Black Lightning or Static? What about having Vixen in the Justice League? Or more character development for Val-Zod? Here's a thought, push for a book starring Kalel, the Black Superman from Multiversity. He was one of the main stars of Multiversity. Did you read that book? Did you support it? Operation Justice Incarnate looked like promising book coming out of Multiversity, but nothing ever came out of it.

What about a bringing back Batwoman? A book that starred a character from the LGBT community. Or Midnighter? One of the best written DCYou books.

If Green Lanterns featured Jessica Cruz, Kyle Rayner, and Simon Baz, it would be one of the most diverse books DC has published. But you've gone on record saying you would not support it because it wouldn't feature John Stewart.

If you're going to talk about diversity, it has to be consistent, line wide. And not just about one specific character.

First Its a Green Lantern Discussion why would all those non GL characters be relevant. What is relevant is Geoff Johns spent years in charge where he did precisely nothing with John Stewart or Kyle (but he was usually in a book with another writer) so what I am believe he cares about Diversity because he wants to use Cruz and Baz...nah I just see him playing favorites because he created those characters. And it gives him more of an excuse to pretend he gives a damn while still sidelining John who its clear he doesnt like.

Now speaking of some of those characters you mentioned a good deal of said minorities have been crippled by poor writing and editorial frak ups so that is Static (Both), Blue Beetle (Writing), Batwoman (Editorial), Val Zod (Earth 2, Both) and since Johns is now management well he has some fault for that. Cass Cain can also be added to the list. That is not even counting the over use of stereotypes that keeps cropping up as an issue for minority characters (I mean Duke and New Wally) spring to mind. And of course part of the destruction of minorities comes down to the total mess that is the Young Justice line where an equal opportunity screwing has damaged lots of characters there be it poor writing, no legacy links, editorial mismanagement and terrible costumes.

Second, why is it people act like Black people and/or other POC and/or Women and/or LGBT have to support every damn character from that group. No one suggest white guys have to like all the white dudes. So does a Black Person have to support Cyborg if they dont like the character, the writing the art, etc? No one says Batman fans have to buy every damn book a Batman Family Member is in. So you wanna talk about consistency how about that? And speaking of Cyborg he was a glorified taxi driver in most of Johns JL where he did very little of note.

[Götterdämmerung]

First Its a Green Lantern Discussion why would all those non GL characters be relevant. What is relevant is Geoff Johns spent years in charge where he did precisely nothing with John Stewart or Kyle (but he was usually in a book with another writer) so what I am believe he cares about Diversity because he wants to use Cruz and Baz...nah I just see him playing favorites because he created those characters. And it gives him more of an excuse to pretend he gives a damn while still sidelining John who its clear he doesnt like.

Now speaking of some of those characters you mentioned a good deal of said minorities have been crippled by poor writing and editorial frak ups so that is Static (Both), Blue Beetle (Writing), Batwoman (Editorial), Val Zod (Earth 2, Both) and since Johns is now management well he has some fault for that. Cass Cain can also be added to the list. That is not even counting the over use of stereotypes that keeps cropping up as an issue for minority characters (I mean Duke and New Wally) spring to mind. And of course part of the destruction of minorities comes down to the total mess that is the Young Justice line where an equal opportunity screwing has damaged lots of characters there be it poor writing, no legacy links, editorial mismanagement and terrible costumes.

Second, why is it people act like Black people and/or other POC and/or Women and/or LGBT have to support every damn character from that group. No one suggest white guys have to like all the white dudes. So does a Black Person have to support Cyborg if they dont like the character, the writing the art, etc? No one says Batman fans have to buy every damn book a Batman Family Member is in. So you wanna talk about consistency how about that? And speaking of Cyborg he was a glorified taxi driver in most of Johns JL where he did very little of note.

I was psyched to check out the Cyborg title (I believe the artist was Reis, a huge favorite of mine), but was warned off by people regarding a hum drum set of stories.

[JaggedFel]

That is fine. I just think it absurd that people who support more diversity are expected to have to buy every single issue of such characters and the characters get blamed if the book fails despite a whole lot of other factors that could contribute to the book failing. Instead its nope minorities dont sale ergo why try.

[Götterdämmerung]

That is fine. I just think it absurd that people who support more diversity are expected to have to buy every single issue of such characters and the characters get blamed if the book fails despite a whole lot of other factors that could contribute to the book failing. Instead its nope minorities dont sale ergo why try.

Put Morrison, Tomasi, Bunn, or even Bedard on Cyborg and I'd be all over it regardless of artist. I want great stories.

[JaggedFel]

Yeah I care about writing more then art myself. But there are limits.

[acessential]

That is fine. I just think it absurd that people who support more diversity are expected to have to buy every single issue of such characters and the characters get blamed if the book fails despite a whole lot of other factors that could contribute to the book failing. Instead its nope minorities dont sale ergo why try.

You aren't expected to buy every single issue of POC/diverse characters. Buy what you want, spend your money how you see fit. But I believe wanting diversity should be more than wanting your favorite character to star in a book. You should want more POC/LGBT characters pushed to the forefront and be just as vocal about them as your favorite character.

[Götterdämmerung]

What if Alan Scott became the sole Green Lantern and Hal, John, Kyle, Guy, Simon and Jessica all resided inside the lantern, ala Nabu.
That would be new and different.

That would be interesting. I recall during my first time back with comics I had a problem with Alan, too "old school" and usurped by John, Hal, and Guy. But after really enjoying his interactions in JSA and GL I like his character a lot.

However, I do find Baz interesting as well, and I think he would be a fine featured character, anywhere really. Cruz I just don't know enough of, though I'm confident I can get swayed. I love the Corps too much to be easily downed, and that's keeping in mind the only-better-than-good current GL run and the borderline-meh (about to flirt with full-on-meh with the pending departure of Sciver) Edge of Oblivion. To me the Corps didn't suffer as much as the main GL title...bring somebody good to Green Lanterns, from both art and writing perspectives. They had such a good thing with Johns in GL and Tomasi on GLC...they can do it again, I'm confident (though I know I shouldn't be).

Either way they get my money, so go ahead and poop on me for being an unashamed fanbubs.

[skyvolt2000]

You aren't expected to buy every single issue of POC/diverse characters. Buy what you want, spend your money how you see fit. But I believe wanting diversity should be more than wanting your favorite character to star in a book. You should want more POC/LGBT characters pushed to the forefront and be just as vocal about them as your favorite character.

First folks are going to be vocal about characters that they have actually read about.

Second folks have done what you suggested and guess what we got-Black Wally West. You can't just scream we want more POC/LGBT without specifying because you will end up with more OFFENSIVE images than good ones.

Third-look at it like this-why would anyone support a Jessica Cruz book when we have seen the fates of others before her.

Cassandra Cain-72 solo issues-a feat no other minority female at the big two have done. Her nearest competition? 20 solo issues of Ms Marvel.
She is one of TWO POC at Dc that can boast having a crossover to herself with another company's product (Dark Horse's Ghost). The other? Kyle.

Yet for all that look at what it got her-trashed, limbo, edited out of book and wall paper in a Batman book.

Vixen-a online show and guest spot on Arrow-yet she's WHERE at DC Comic?
Bumblebee-wall paper in a girl's toyline.
Where are ll these new minority females at since new 52? Outside of the ones in Batman & Grayson. What has fake Power Girl done in Teen Train wreck?

Simon Baz-same question.

Kyle-the most successful biracial hero with 140+ solo issues. At least he gets to lead low selling books.
Steel & Jason Rusch-where are they both coholders of the most solo issues for a black chracter.
Static-he's in that tie as well. A tv show mean nothing for him but every other WHITE chracter that GUEST stars it means a solo or mini or appearance in a book?
Jaime Reyes-Latino/Hispanic solo leader-guest star on tv shows and have toys in stores mean nothing?
John Stewart-let not even go there.

It get to the point of why invest time & MONEY into these POC/LGBT just to see someone screw it up?

If the COMPANY won't take diversity seriously, they need to stop trying. Diversity is not and will never be wall paper minorities. Or racially offensive guys like Wally & even Duke who pander to the stereotypes.

[Trey Strain]

Put John out there in a title as a GL, promoted as equal to Hal, with a good creative team on it. Let's see whether it sells.

[Götterdämmerung]

Put John out there in a title as a GL, promoted as equal to Hal, with a good creative team on it. Let's see whether it sells.

Well, it must have meant something when John held the title back in the late 80s. I'd certainly like to see him lead the main title again. More than anyone else at this point. Hal has had more than his day back.

[DeathFalcon182]

I don't get this, so you should support the minority characters, regardless of the quality of the title? Not that it's wrong with it. It's just fortunate that John has a decent fanbase, who happens to be a minority character. So no, it's nothing wrong arguing about a minority character that DC has a solid answer to one of their diversity problems by successfully leading a title with decent numbers.

No people are still and always making false argument that DC doesn't care about diversity, when DC goes extra mile to keep those books on the shelves. If you really cared about diversity, you would look beyond one character, do people here honestly do? Nope. Most people in this thread care about Johns Stewart and that's fine, just stop pretending you care about diversity. As for the quality of the books, Midnighter is one of the highest rated book, Gotham Academy too, so was Catwoman under Valentine and so is Constantine: The Hellblazer.

I was going to ignore that individual's comment, but I suppose I will address it.

It's all about diversity. John Stewart is arguably DC's biggest 'diverse' character. In discussions like this it's kind of hard to separate him from that, because by focusing on John Stewart, DC will open things up to an entirely different demographic than they would by focusing on some white Green Lantern. John Stewart is a diverse character with a quite diverse and passionate fanbase. If he's pushed aside, quite a few of those people who identify with him will feel alienated, and many of them will probably not buy the products. Not all diverse characters have fanbases as large or passionate as his.

Seeing as how DC could answer many of its diversity woes by focusing more on this character, who already has a strong multimedia presence and is known and accepted by many, it strikes some as strange that they shove him aside. If shoving him aside would boost sales, I would understand it more, but there wasn't any leap in sales from Lost Army to Edge of Oblivion. At least by focusing on John Stewart, DC would, as mentioned, hit an under served demographic. But I'm sure that doesn't matter to some of you, because that's not really an issue that many of you are faced with.

And what underserved demographic is that? People who care about diverse character or people who care about John Stewart. Sounds the latter because people who actually cared about diverse character would be happy that DC has a very diverse slate of diverse character by diverse creator currently on shelves. They maybe somewhat disappointed that John Stewart doesn't have a book but I doubt they would feel underserved.

Some of the discussion here strikes me as people telling fans of different backgrounds to just shut up and accept this thing because they're okay with it, and apparently the people who feel the way these fans of different backgrounds do are just a vocal minority or militants. What I have said is essentially that if DC is just going to have black characters to satisfy white people... many of whom don't really care all that much... (actually, what it is really about is just scratching something off of a to-do list) then they're not doing well with diversity, regardless of whatever the non-caring white person says.

Seriously? DC putting out a book featuring black man by a creator of black ethnicity(Cyborg), DC putting out a book of gay character by a bisexual man(Midnighter), DC putting out a book of bisexual character by bisexual writer and a female writer(Constantine), DC putting out a book of bisexual character by a female creator(Catwoman), DC putting out book a book about diverse cast of teenagers where central character is of black ethnicity by a black artist, all of this is just a scratch off to do list for DC because they can't successfully pander to John Stewart's fanbase. Yeah your argument is not as well thought out as you may think. These are all not attempts by DC to just scratch off the to do list, these are genuine attempts to diversify their lineup featuring diverse and unique characters by right creators and if you choose to see it any other way just because you as a fan of John Stewart and not genuine diversity isn't satisfied, pity.

I'll say it again, I have no problem with people asking for books of certain characters. I would very much like to read a well done book about Vixen, Black Lightning and Statick and I do feel like these creators should get some spotlight and DC can do more but that doesn't mean I'm trying to do what a lot of people here are trying to do, disregard DC's attempt at diversity.

[Trey Strain]

Well, it must have meant something when John held the title back in the late 80s. I'd certainly like to see him lead the main title again. More than anyone else at this point. Hal has had more than his day back.

Get away from the whole "main title" approach. That automatically limits how much every comic except the "main" one can sell. Put them out there in three equal titles along with Guy and let's see what happens.

[Götterdämmerung]

Get away from the whole "main title" approach. That automatically limits how much every comic except the "main" one can sell. Put them out there in three equal titles along with Guy and let's see what happens.

This is a good idea.

[Sodam Yat]

No people are still and always making false argument that DC doesn't care about diversity, when DC goes extra mile to keep those books on the shelves. If you really cared about diversity, you would look beyond one character, do people here honestly do? Nope. Most people in this thread care about Johns Stewart and that's fine, just stop pretending you care about diversity. As for the quality of the books, Midnighter is one of the highest rated book, Gotham Academy too, so was Catwoman under Valentine and so is Constantine: The Hellblazer.

I don't think DC don't care about diversity. The problem is their preference seems to be more catered towards nostalgia (like pushing Babs, while Cass barely made an appearance) and they may not be pushing these characters enough (like John Stewart). Minority characters doesn't seem to have a strong presence or even being centered in huge DC events, other than white characters. You're going to need more than just "quality" in their titles to have a strong appeal, because it will be harder to appeal someone to read about a character if they never had a real strong presence anywhere else. When Sam Wilson became the new Cap, he appeared in multiple titles, which is pretty much like an advertisement in a business sense. It's impressive, considering he always been regarded as a mediocre character even among minority readers. Excuse my ignorance (please don't laugh at me), but honestly I had never heard of books like Gotham Academy and Constantine: The Hellblazer, until I read the comments from users in this forum a while ago.

Another thing to think about is that a reader may not be a fan of the concept than the character. Which is why it's easier to create legacy characters.

[skyvolt2000]

I don't think DC don't care about diversity. The problem is their preference seems to be more catered towards nostalgia (like pushing Babs, while Cass barely made an appearance) and they may not be pushing these characters enough (like John Stewart). Minority characters doesn't seem to have a strong presence or even being centered in huge DC events, other than white characters. You're going to need more than just "quality" in their titles to have a strong appeal, because it will be harder to appeal someone to read about a character if they never had a real strong presence anywhere else. When Sam Wilson became the new Cap, he appeared in multiple titles, which is pretty much like an advertisement in a business sense. It's impressive, considering he always been regarded as a mediocre character even among minority readers. Excuse my ignorance (please don't laugh at me), but honestly I had never heard of books like Gotham Academy and Constantine: The Hellblazer, until I read the comments from users in this forum a while ago.

Another thing to think about is that a reader may not be a fan of the concept than the character. Which is why it's easier to create legacy characters.

Sam Wilson has had a STEADY presence in all forms of media. No matter what minority readers thought of him-he was always around in toys, books and tv.

Sam Wilson was Harley before Harley was created. Both of them represent the proper way to do a character to get mass appeal.

Now you are seeing with Miles, Ms Marvel, BP & Luke Cage.