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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    Even though USAgent was added to the West Coast Avengers by editorial order (specifically, Mark Gruenwald's order), I thought he was a good addition to the team just because most of the other characters didn't know or like him, which created some real tension in the team. It was almost as if Henry Gyrich was a superhero. Plus it's rare for a political conservative to be a superhero, and that added some tension too, sort of like when Hawkman was the JLA's resident conservative.
    While I'm not politically conservative, I've long wished for some good (non-strawman) representation of that among the superhero community (just as I like representation of other groups I'm not a part of, like racial minorities, or women, or religious groups). I did like USAgents friction with the rest of the team (particularly Hawkeye), since it can add some fun drama when not everyone gets along, or thinks the world of (or is sleeping with / married to) their teammates.

    The point where he really outstayed his welcome was after War Machine joined the WCA. Having the ersatz versions of both Captain America and Iron Man just made the team seem like a B-list team, which it wasn't before (if only because the East Coast Avengers had such weak casts during that period). But by then it was clearly already headed for cancellation.
    Yeah, ersatz teams really have a hard row to hoe, IMO. If a team has War Machine, Winter Soldier and Thunderstrike on it, for instance, that's not going to draw the Iron Man, Captain America and Thor fans, and it's *certainly* not going to draw the fans of *other* Avengers (like Clint or Simon or Hank or Wanda or Jennifer or Monica), who get to see backup Iron Man, second-stringer Thor and Captain America's sidekick-all-grown-up instead. They benefitted a lot from the East Coast Avengers consisting of folk like Wasp, Black Knight, Sersi, Crystal and some losers I don't remember (Gilgamesh? Proctor? Magdalene? Warcry? Whatever. Any 'Avenger' less memorable than Dr. frikkin' Druid needs to go away...), at the time, with the Wasp being the only 'real Avenger' in that line up, but still...

  2. #122
    Justified Ancient of MuMu wonderlad's Avatar
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    Yeah I was rooting for Hank and Janet to reunite. They were the Bobby and Pam Ewing (some may argue the JR and Sue Ellen) of the Avengers :P . And they were mostly together solidly until Disassembled. Glad the movie versions seem to have a Happy Ever After though hope to see a Janet- Wasp at some point.

  3. #123
    Extraordinary Member Fokken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    While I'm not politically conservative, I've long wished for some good (non-strawman) representation of that among the superhero community (just as I like representation of other groups I'm not a part of, like racial minorities, or women, or religious groups). I did like USAgents friction with the rest of the team (particularly Hawkeye), since it can add some fun drama when not everyone gets along, or thinks the world of (or is sleeping with / married to) their teammates.
    I sincerely agree with you on this, and I expect a lot of folks out there aren't super on board with this mentality but I certainly agree. ALL vantage points hold value in representation and opposing vantage points in particular can be wildly entertaining from a narrative stand point. Rahne Sinclair of the New Mutants, for example, in her earlier depictions being in routine opposition with the actions and behaviors of her peers -- particularly Illyana Rasputin -- and having to reconcile her belief system with social pleasantries. I find significant value in identifying the complexities and unique perspective she brought to the group's dynamic.
    I felt the same about intolerant and invulnerable Paulie Provenzano, on Jean Grey's substitute X-Men group, and his and Northstar's feuding.

  4. #124
    Astonishing Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchfan View Post
    Comic Legends: Did Hank Pym & Wasp Almost Marry in West Coast Avengers?
    https://www.cbr.com/hank-pym-wasp-ma...oast-avengers/

    COMIC LEGEND:
    John Byrne was going to have Hank Pym and Wasp get married during his West Coast Avegenrs run

    STATUS:
    True
    That would have been really great. maybe it would have definitely laid to rest the whole slap controversy and spared Hank so much misuse of later years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    I felt the same about intolerant and invulnerable Paulie Provenzano, on Jean Grey's substitute X-Men group, and his and Northstar's feuding.
    I liked that guy. I don't think I've seen him ever since. I actually think there was a lot of potential in that substitute team. Dazzler, Sunpyre, Northstar, Provenzano... Too bad Morrison's arrival killed any momentum for it.

    Peace

  5. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomads1 View Post
    That would have been really great. maybe it would have definitely laid to rest the whole slap controversy and spared Hank so much misuse of later years.

    Jan would have certainly lost my respect. it would have definitely cost her any shot at being an iconic marvel heroine.

  6. #126
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    Jan would have certainly lost my respect. it would have definitely cost her any shot at being an iconic marvel heroine.
    While I respect you'd lost respect for her it wouldn't has stopped her from being an iconic Marvel Heroine many iconic characters have problematic past.

  7. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    Jan would have certainly lost my respect. it would have definitely cost her any shot at being an iconic marvel heroine.
    Not sure I would've gone quite that far, but I agree that it would've been a mistake. Honestly, all the attempts at rekindling their romance feel like mistakes. It's the result of fans and writers being incapable of getting over the past. People who grew up on Hank and Jan being together, and deciding they should always be together, never mind anything that's happened over the years. Let them be friends who care for each other but who both recognize that, whatever their hearts might say, they don't belong together.

  8. #128
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    Not sure I would've gone quite that far, but I agree that it would've been a mistake. Honestly, all the attempts at rekindling their romance feel like mistakes. It's the result of fans and writers being incapable of getting over the past. People who grew up on Hank and Jan being together, and deciding they should always be together, never mind anything that's happened over the years. Let them be friends who care for each other but who both recognize that, whatever their hearts might say, they don't belong together.
    I think being "incapable of getting over the past" is more of an issue when it comes to their breakup then it does when they're together, if only because that seems to get brought up a lot more then any attempt at getting them back together.

    Of course, I'm a fan of them as a couple, so I'm far from unbiased.

  9. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think being "incapable of getting over the past" is more of an issue when it comes to their breakup then it does when they're together, if only because that seems to get brought up a lot more then any attempt at getting them back together.

    Of course, I'm a fan of them as a couple, so I'm far from unbiased.
    it was an issue in the Vegas issue.

  10. #130
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    it was an issue in the Vegas issue.
    I think that's probably one of the times where both points kind of collided there.

  11. #131
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    Not sure I would've gone quite that far, but I agree that it would've been a mistake. Honestly, all the attempts at rekindling their romance feel like mistakes. It's the result of fans and writers being incapable of getting over the past. People who grew up on Hank and Jan being together, and deciding they should always be together, never mind anything that's happened over the years. Let them be friends who care for each other but who both recognize that, whatever their hearts might say, they don't belong together.
    That is how I think it should be, and for a long time it was that way. I grew up with them being a couple, but was perfectly fine with them splitting up for good. I thought the way they talked it all out and laid it to rest in the WCA issues was the perfect ending to their story and left both characters in a good place. It was only when latter writers tried putting them back together and brought up the "slap" again that things go bad.

  12. #132
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    That is how I think it should be, and for a long time it was that way. I grew up with them being a couple, but was perfectly fine with them splitting up for good. I thought the way they talked it all out and laid it to rest in the WCA issues was the perfect ending to their story and left both characters in a good place. It was only when latter writers tried putting them back together and brought up the "slap" again that things go bad.
    I thought Busiek handled them fairly well together .

  13. #133

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    Put a new team in the Pacific Northwest. Make something happen!

  14. #134
    Astonishing Member Mary Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I thought Busiek handled them fairly well together .
    Agreed. Reading the previous comments, you'd think that Jan and Hank didn't have a working loving relationship after WCA, but Busiek wrote them together, genuinely in love and all, and it worked just fine.
    "You don't raise yourself by stepping on somebody else"

    Currently looking for a pull list... Does near-mint West Coast Avengers count?

    #givebackthesuit
    #stopstealinghisstuff

  15. #135
    Astonishing Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I thought Busiek handled them fairly well together .
    I liked it also. Even the way Johns handled them in the Vegas issue was fine with me. It really started to go bad when Austen decided to give it a 180 spin in his run.

    Peace

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