Wonder Woman Villains Sightings

[Agent Z]

I beg to differ. Since Crisis on Infinite Earths, DC has leaned much more towards the Greek myth characters with Ares, Demois, Phobos, and Decay being the first adversaries Diana fought upon coming to Man's world. Circe became also became a major contender for Diana's arch-nemesis alongside Cheetah. The New 52 solo book featured mostly Greek myth adversaries for it's 5 year run with Cheetah and majorly revamped versions of Aegeus and Dr. Poison appearing in a total of 3 stories. Now Justice League Dark is pushing Circe as the major villain instead of an original Wonder-rogue such as Dark Angel, White Magician, or the Queen of Fables.

Barbara Minerva was featured in the seventh issue of the Perez run. The New 52 solo book is the only time in history where the Greek myth villains were the only ones used (unless you count First Born and Cassandra the Mad who aren't from the myths). Yeah Circe became a major contender but let's not kid ourselves; DC will always push Cheetah over her. Dark Angel is more a Donna Troy villain than a Diana one and Circe simply has more clout as a villain than White Magician and Queen of Fables (the latter of whom is also a public domain character).

Circe wasn't part of Villainy Inc. Maybe you're thinking of Godwatch?

You're right she wasn't. My mistake. Still, she was a part of the story that turned Vanessa into a new Silver Swan, so her absence from this film seems odd to me.

[Frontier]

You're right she wasn't. My mistake. Still, she was a part of the story that turned Vanessa into a new Silver Swan, so her absence from this film seems odd to me.

To be honest, unless they treated her like a cameo, Circe would probably have been too big of a threat to put on the group and take the spotlight away from the other villains.

[Vordan]

I beg to differ. Since Crisis on Infinite Earths, DC has leaned much more towards the Greek myth characters with Ares, Demois, Phobos, and Decay being the first adversaries Diana fought upon coming to Man's world. Circe became also became a major contender for Diana's arch-nemesis alongside Cheetah. The New 52 solo book featured mostly Greek myth adversaries for it's 5 year run with Cheetah and majorly revamped versions of Aegeus and Dr. Poison appearing in a total of 3 stories. Now Justice League Dark is pushing Circe as the major villain instead of an original Wonder-rogue such as Dark Angel, White Magician, or the Queen of Fables.

What do those villains bring to the table over Circe though, besides being original Wonder-Rogues? While I share your distaste for the Greek Gods overuse, I don’t really see the problem with using public domain characters. It’s not like DCU Circe shares anything in common with myth Circe besides the name. Loki is Thor’s most iconic villain, and that certainly hasn’t hurt his popularity any, dude has become a widely beloved character. Circe as she exists in the DCU is a product of WW writers shaping her, just as Marvel Loki is a product of his writers. And whether she originated somewhere else or not, as a part of WW’s RG, when she is written well and has a good showing she helps raise the esteem of WW’s RG as a whole by showing it has impressive villains.

[Dr. Poison]

Barbara Minerva was featured in the seventh issue of the Perez run. The New 52 solo book is the only time in history where the Greek myth villains were the only ones used (unless you count First Born and Cassandra the Mad who aren't from the myths). Yeah Circe became a major contender but let's not kid ourselves; DC will always push Cheetah over her. Dark Angel is more a Donna Troy villain than a Diana one and Circe simply has more clout as a villain than White Magician and Queen of Fables (the latter of whom is also a public domain character).


You're right she wasn't. My mistake. Still, she was a part of the story that turned Vanessa into a new Silver Swan, so her absence from this film seems odd to me.

Ok but when have the original Wonder-rogues been the stars of of an entire 3+ year run in any comic?

[Dr. Poison]

What do those villains bring to the table over Circe though, besides being original Wonder-Rogues? While I share your distaste for the Greek Gods overuse, I don’t really see the problem with using public domain characters. It’s not like DCU Circe shares anything in common with myth Circe besides the name. Loki is Thor’s most iconic villain, and that certainly hasn’t hurt his popularity any, dude has become a widely beloved character. Circe as she exists in the DCU is a product of WW writers shaping her, just as Marvel Loki is a product of his writers. And whether she originated somewhere else or not, as a part of WW’s RG, when she is written well and has a good showing she helps raise the esteem of WW’s RG as a whole by showing it has impressive villains.

You said it yourself, they're "original" and not hand-me-downs from public domain. Circe can appear in Wonder Woman, Shazam, Spider-Man, Zena, or heck, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles if the creators want to use her. Yes, she may look/act a little different but in the end, the base of the character is the same one from Greek myths.

[SiegePerilous02]

DC has always pushed the original villains over the public domain ones. Cheetah and Giganta alone have been featured in more adaptations and comics than any of the Greek pantheon. Hell, the cancelled David E. Kelley show was going to use Veronica Cale.

DC isn't doing anything different with this movie. They're doing what they've always done. Keep in mind Circe is absent despite being a Villainy, Inc member and having played a major role in the original story where Vanessa became Silver Swan.

We're really only getting a big push for Cheetah recently. How often are she and especially Giganta treated as anything other than generic grunts in these things? This is also only the second WW centric DTV we've gotten, and the first one featured Ares and Deimos. Ares is the most used villain after Cheetah. Cale had the failed pilot (that hardly counts), and the rest of the women appearing in this movie have had either just wordless cameos or haven't appeared at all.

It's basically down to Ares/the Greek pantheon and Cheetah. This many of her costumed villains being the focus of an other media adaptation is not something they've ever done.

Circe wasn't part of Villainy Inc. Maybe you're thinking of Godwatch?

To be honest, unless they treated her like a cameo, Circe would probably have been too big of a threat to put on the group and take the spotlight away from the other villains.

And in the Jiemenz run, Sebastian Ballesteros and Dr. Psycho had more of a hand in Vanessa's transformation than Circe. Rucka's first run is also more prolific, and that's where Cale took over as her puppet master. This film is distilling things down by combining Vanessa's roles in Rucka's first run (puppet of Cale) and Rebirth (her design), and Cale is present as a major character in both runs.

If we get more of these, I hope we do get Circe though.

[Vordan]

You said it yourself, they're "original" and not hand-me-downs from public domain. Circe can appear in Wonder Woman, Shazam, Spider-Man, Zena, or heck, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles if the creators want to use her. Yes, she may look/act a little different but in the end, the base of the character is the same one from Greek myths.

I’m still not seeing the downside here. Marvel’s Loki is specific to Marvel Thor. There are differences there that differentiate him from the myths, and make him his own character. Also I find it kind of odd that you have such a hate for public domain characters when the Amazons are public domain characters. There’s a villainous Marvel Hippolytia who lusts over the heroic Marvel Hercules (they even pointed that difference out in the JLA/Avengers crossover!). WW is deeply involved in public domain myths yet you obviously don’t have a problem with that. What makes Circe such a stickler? If she gets a good showing do you really think anyone is going to think less of Diana for using Circe? I certainly don’t think it’s actually a problem. Of course they should use her other Rogues, but I don’t really see Circe’s presence as a bad thing, DC Circe is as different from Myth Circe as Marvel Loki is different from Myth Loki. They share the name but not much else, especially in Circe’s case.

Of course Circe is one of my top three favorite WW Rogues so I’m hardly unbiased lol.

[Dr. Poison]

I’m still not seeing the downside here. Marvel’s Loki is specific to Marvel Thor. There are differences there that differentiate him from the myths, and make him his own character. Also I find it kind of odd that you have such a hate for public domain characters when the Amazons are public domain characters. There’s a villainous Marvel Hippolytia who lusts over the heroic Marvel Hercules (they even pointed that difference out in the JLA/Avengers crossover!). WW is deeply involved in public domain myths yet you obviously don’t have a problem with that. What makes Circe such a stickler? If she gets a good showing do you really think anyone is going to think less of Diana for using Circe? I certainly don’t think it’s actually a problem. Of course they should use her other Rogues, but I don’t really see Circe’s presence as a bad thing, DC Circe is as different from Myth Circe as Marvel Loki is different from Myth Loki. They share the name but not much else, especially in Circe’s case.

Of course Circe is one of my top three favorite WW Rogues so I’m hardly unbiased lol.

I think the major difference why Loki works for Thor for me and Circe, Ares, Public Domain Character X don't work for Diana for me is because Thor is also from public domain while Wonder Woman is not. I'm not saying the public domain villains should be used, just not so often and so prominently that they often eclipse the original rogues that are totally owned by DC.

[marhawkman]

I think the major difference why Loki works for Thor for me and Circe, Ares, Public Domain Character X don't work for Diana for me is because Thor is also from public domain while Wonder Woman is not. I'm not saying the public domain villains should be used, just not so often and so prominently that they often eclipse the original rogues that are totally owned by DC.

WW's entire mythos is built on public domain elements though. Amazons, even the name Hippolyta are from Greek Mythology. It's very much DC's twist on the setting, but it's fully rooted in Greek mythology.

[Nyssane]

Let's not turn this into another original vs. public domain debate. The topic is about Wonder Woman's villains appearing in any forms of media.

[Frontier]

If we get more of these, I hope we do get Circe though.

We at least know Wonder Woman's fought her before in this film continuity. Wonder Woman mentions the League dealing with her in Justice League Dark.

[Dr. Poison]

We at least know Wonder Woman's fought her before in this film continuity. Wonder Woman mentions the League dealing with her in Justice League Dark.

Now that is a battle I'd probably like to read about as I don't think we've ever seen Circe take on the Justice League solo before and with her power level, that's definitely something she should be able to do. Cheetah is the only Wonder-rogue to do so that I can think of. I know the Queen of Fables also took on the League but that was before she became a more regular Wonder-rogue.

[Gaelforce]

Okay, folks, this is another off-shoot debate that has been done to death and I've had enough.

Public domain versus originally created characters.

Feel free to create a thread specifically for this debate, but I'm not going to see any more threads derailed by this topic.

Thank you.

[Mistah K88]

So... about Bloodlines using characters like Dr. Poison, Dr. Cyber, and Silver Swan. Outside of The Superfriends duo (Cheetah and Giganta) and the Greek characters Wonder Woman's villains don't get a lot of action... This will be the most action we've gotten out of wonder rogues in animation (outside of the mentioned Superfriends and Greeks) since Paula von Gunther in Brave and the Bold. You would have THOUGHT that Dr. Poison would have gotten more action after Wonder Woman's movie...

[Dr. Poison]

So... about Bloodlines using characters like Dr. Poison, Dr. Cyber, and Silver Swan. Outside of The Superfriends duo (Cheetah and Giganta) and the Greek characters Wonder Woman's villains don't get a lot of action... This will be the most action we've gotten out of wonder rogues in animation (outside of the mentioned Superfriends and Greeks) since Paula von Gunther in Brave and the Bold. You would have THOUGHT that Dr. Poison would have gotten more action after Wonder Woman's movie...

Perhaps Dr. Poison will show up on the Young Justice cartoon? Then again, they haven't really used any Wonder-rogues beyond their remixed version of Devastation.