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  1. #601
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psy-lock View Post
    That's what rubs me the wrong way about Veronica. Suddenly she's everyone's boss despite being a relatively new character.
    Rucka’s run established her as behind or tied to multiple other characters, so I think that bit is going to stick.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    Same here. I hate it when one villain seems to be over most of the other villains as far as supplying them with powers or technology. Imagine if Luthor was behind Metallo, Bizarro, Brainiac, Atomic Skull, Mongul, Silver Banshee, and General Zod? Or Ras Al Ghul was the benefactor of Joker, Penguin, Catwoman, Mr. Freeze, Clayface, Dr. Phosphorus, and Killer Croc. It gets old real fast.
    I dislike one villain being behind everything (at least outside of “run the gauntlet” storylines) too. But Cale is cast in the Lex mold, and they’ve tied Lex to Metallo, Bizarro, and Parasite, so I guess it’s expected. Frustrating that the one connection I’d like to see explored more, Cale and Cyber, has just been ignored, Cyber hasn’t even show up since Rucka left.
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  2. #602
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Rucka’s run established her as behind or tied to multiple other characters, so I think that bit is going to stick.

    I dislike one villain being behind everything (at least outside of “run the gauntlet” storylines) too. But Cale is cast in the Lex mold, and they’ve tied Lex to Metallo, Bizarro, and Parasite, so I guess it’s expected. Frustrating that the one connection I’d like to see explored more, Cale and Cyber, has just been ignored, Cyber hasn’t even show up since Rucka left.
    Cyber was in Robinson's run; it was brief and a complete contradiction to what we saw before, but she was there.

    Regarding Cale, I thought she worked great for Rucka's run, but now that Ares is free and Themyscira is back in Man's world, she either needs to retire or find a new reason for villainy.

  3. #603
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    Imagine if Luthor was behind Metallo,

    Or Ras Al Ghul was the benefactor of Mr. Freeze,
    About that....

    In DCAU it WAS Lex that turned John Corben into Metallo. Also, in several versions, Metallo's weakness is that his mechanical body can't self repair. Thus Corben eventually needs repairs that he can't get from the US government... so... Lex is an easy option.

    Then in one comic Nora Fries gets tossed into a Lazarus Pit....

  4. #604
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Frustrating that the one connection I’d like to see explored more, Cale and Cyber, has just been ignored, Cyber hasn’t even show up since Rucka left.
    Why has no writer (that I recall) realized the incredible potential that Cyber has?? Cyber could literally be an unstoppable villanous presence in Wonder Woman comics. The stuff that she could do is so dangerous and all-encompassing that she could be the one Wonder Woman villain that becomes a company-wide threat (the kind of threat that would need entire teams of superheroes to suppress and/or contain. Seriously.) And yes, I think that Cyber would not need to be a henchwoman; she could fully be the main event.
    Last edited by FutureWonder; 02-24-2021 at 12:49 PM.

  5. #605
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psy-lock View Post
    That's what rubs me the wrong way about Veronica. Suddenly she's everyone's boss despite being a relatively new character.
    I probably wouldn't mind as much if it was Eviless being the "big bad behind the curtain" as she has had a history in being the leader of Villainy Inc. With Cale, it seems like they have to prop her up at the expense of villains that predated her...by a LOT. The best way would be to have the villains have their own agendas BEFORE running into Cale.

  6. #606
    Astonishing Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    Same here. I hate it when one villain seems to be over most of the other villains as far as supplying them with powers or technology. Imagine if Luthor was behind Metallo, Bizarro, Brainiac, Atomic Skull, Mongul, Silver Banshee, and General Zod? Or Ras Al Ghul was the benefactor of Joker, Penguin, Catwoman, Mr. Freeze, Clayface, Dr. Phosphorus, and Killer Croc. It gets old real fast.
    Hasn't this been a thing they've done with Lex and other Super-Rogues quite a bit in recent years?

  7. #607
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    I'm fine with Veronica being behind a lot of Diana's villains. It reminds me of the Sinister Six in Spectacular Spider-Man: Doc Ock is in charge of a rotating cast of villains in his employ, who still strike out occasionally and have their own stories. I think that's how Godwatch/Villainy Inc should be approached with Cale as the leader.

    Villains like Blue Snowman, Hypnota and Zara work well as "employees." The likes of Cheetah and Circe would be the equivalents to the Green Goblin and Venom to her Doc Ock: Big Bads in their own right who occasionally might work with her, but not for her. Cale has an interesting connection to Cheetah, who turned on her pretty quickly. And Cyber branched out on her own despite getting her start with Veronica.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Rucka’s run established her as behind or tied to multiple other characters, so I think that bit is going to stick.

    I dislike one villain being behind everything (at least outside of “run the gauntlet” storylines) too. But Cale is cast in the Lex mold, and they’ve tied Lex to Metallo, Bizarro, and Parasite, so I guess it’s expected. Frustrating that the one connection I’d like to see explored more, Cale and Cyber, has just been ignored, Cyber hasn’t even show up since Rucka left.
    Seriously. Cyber's the big recent-ish villain who I want to see re-appear the most.

  8. #608
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    I thi k Dr Poison has more potential as the big bad. But I would accept Dr Cyber too. Just not Veronica Cale.

  9. #609
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I mean this is why I like Villany Inc has an idea. It can give everyone a chance to shine. We can also have a secondary group Godwatch. To focus on magically ideas

  10. #610
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    I thi k Dr Poison has more potential as the big bad. But I would accept Dr Cyber too. Just not Veronica Cale.
    I think they both could thrive as the big bad. We don't have to choose. Personally, I'm not much of a fan of Cale. She just feels undercooked compared to other Wondy villains.

  11. #611
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Hasn't this been a thing they've done with Lex and other Super-Rogues quite a bit in recent years?


    And that explains why I haven't bought a solo Superman book in almost a decade. Seriously though, I knew Lex was behind a few of the Super-rogues but having Veronica Cale behind Cheetah, Dr. Cyber, Dr. Poison, and Blue Snowman is getting to be a bit much. No-one else in Wonder Woman's world is smart enough to give themselves abilities or technology powerful enough to take on Diana?
    Currently Reading: Checkmate, Crime Syndicate, Green Lantern, Infinite Frontier, Justice League/Justice League Dark, Sensational Wonder Woman, Suicide Squad, & Wonder Woman.

  12. #612
    Astonishing Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    And that explains why I haven't bought a solo Superman book in almost a decade. Seriously though, I knew Lex was behind a few of the Super-rogues but having Veronica Cale behind Cheetah, Dr. Cyber, Dr. Poison, and Blue Snowman is getting to be a bit much. No-one else in Wonder Woman's world is smart enough to give themselves abilities or technology powerful enough to take on Diana?
    The case here seemed more of a villain team up than anything else, so while I could get those others (except Poison she was just a hired merc in Rebirth) could be annoying this seems to be assuming much.

  13. #613
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    The case here seemed more of a villain team up than anything else, so while I could get those others (except Poison she was just a hired merc in Rebirth) could be annoying this seems to be assuming much.
    Yeah as the Kingpin in Marvel comics likes to phrase it there's a difference between "associates" and employees.

    Employees are people like Mercy working as Lex's bodyguard. She pretty much doesn't do her own thing ever. Associates are cases like Lex working with the Joker or Ra's. Yes, compensation for services rendered may go around, but only on an irregular basis. It's not necessarily an equal partnership, but it's a partnership.

  14. #614
    Mighty Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    And that explains why I haven't bought a solo Superman book in almost a decade. Seriously though, I knew Lex was behind a few of the Super-rogues but having Veronica Cale behind Cheetah, Dr. Cyber, Dr. Poison, and Blue Snowman is getting to be a bit much. No-one else in Wonder Woman's world is smart enough to give themselves abilities or technology powerful enough to take on Diana?
    Wasn't it Phobos and Demos who were behind Cheetah? They forced Cale to fund Barbara's expedition and they said it was to "encourage her apotheosis" since she probably would have found a way to get to Urzkartaga without Cale's help, but it would have taken longer. Plus Barbara found Urzkartaga's whereabouts on her own, she just needed funding.
    I think it was pretty well implied Barbara was doomed to become Cheetah the moment Diana arrived, whether they were close friends or not. Even if they were to never have personally met, it was Diana's existence and the proof that gods existed is was drove Barbara to look for one.

    I guess the second time Barbara turned it was more Cale's doing since she blackmailed Barbara.

    And Dr.Poision is just hired by Cale, Cale isn't responsible for her knowledge or experience, just her income.

    Also Adrianna built the machine that would later turn her into Dr.Cyber. Phobos and Demos just forced her to use it before it was safe.
    Last edited by I'm a Fish; 02-25-2021 at 03:30 AM.

  15. #615
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    Wasn't it Phobos and Demos who were behind Cheetah? They forced Cale to fund Barbara's expedition and they said it was to "encourage her apotheosis" since she probably would have found a way to get to Urzkartaga without Cale's help, but it would have taken longer. Plus Barbara found Urzkartaga's whereabouts on her own, she just needed funding.
    I think it was pretty well implied Barbara was doomed to become Cheetah the moment Diana arrived, whether they were close friends or not. Even if they were to never have personally met, it was Diana's existence and the proof that gods existed is was drove Barbara to look for one.

    I guess the second time Barbara turned it was more Cale's doing since she blackmailed Barbara.

    And Dr.Poision is just hired by Cale, Cale isn't responsible for her knowledge or experience, just her income.

    Also Adrianna built the machine that would later turn her into Dr.Cyber. Phobos and Demos just forced her to use it before it was safe.

    Still, it seems that Cale has been woven into more Wonder-rogues lives than she needs to be. Whether it's funding, a paycheck, powers, or technology, it's from Veronica Cale and it's starting to become overdone IMO.
    Currently Reading: Checkmate, Crime Syndicate, Green Lantern, Infinite Frontier, Justice League/Justice League Dark, Sensational Wonder Woman, Suicide Squad, & Wonder Woman.

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