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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    Considering the most recent version of Ares was a dirty, drunken, old bum who couldn't even hold his own against the First Born, I don't see Ares as being threatening enough to be taken seriously by people who only watch DC cartoons. My point is that every character is subject to a badly written story.
    He held his own just fine for a skeletal old man with a hangover who was facing a guy with a pair of Arnold Scwartzeneggers making up his arms and upper body. He didn't out muscle FB, but he knew exactly where to punch to make it matter... unlike Orion.

    Add to this, if the New 52 version was to be used, you could easily show him similar to the dozens of 'old sensei' characters that's around; 70-90 year old men and women whom the young hero have to train under, after getting their rears handed to them in short order.

  2. #62
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    He held his own just fine for a skeletal old man with a hangover who was facing a guy with a pair of Arnold Scwartzeneggers making up his arms and upper body. He didn't out muscle FB, but he knew exactly where to punch to make it matter... unlike Orion.

    Add to this, if the New 52 version was to be used, you could easily show him similar to the dozens of 'old sensei' characters that's around; 70-90 year old men and women whom the young hero have to train under, after getting their rears handed to them in short order.

    If Ares was holding his own just fine then why did the First Born come *this close* to killing Ares before Diana did? Plus if the First Born was really a force to be reckoned with, how come Diana was able defeat him by tricking him into falling into a pit? Hardly a good showing for someone said to be able to destroy all of creation. As for the sensei angle, that's kind of overused at this point IMO.
    Last edited by Dr. Poison; 02-10-2015 at 05:33 AM.
    Currently Reading:Aquaman, Doomsday Clock, Freedom Fighters, Gotham City Monsters, Hawkman, Justice League, Justice League Dark, Shazam, Wonder Twins, Wonder Woman, & Young Justice.

  3. #63
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    The problem with Ares for me isn't that he was a drunken old man who lost to the First Born. It's that he's inconsistent in his portrayal as a WW villain. He hasn't been a straight up enemy to Wonder Woman for quite some time. In Rucka's run, he was a puppet master who often actually helped Diana. In Simone's run, he had a bit role as a villain where his claim to fame was getting axed in the head. Odyssey had him hiding with the rest of the gods, and now he's dead after being revamped as Diana's father figure/mentor.

    Cheetah teamed up with Diana once or twice, but there has never been a question if she's a WW villain or not. Same with Circe. But Ares is a bit shadier, especially in Rucka's run and the New 52 (Mind you, I like that about Ares... I don't think just because he's the God of War that he has to be depicted as some battle-hungry warrior. Rucka's version was my absolute fave of the character).

  4. #64
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    New 52 Ares would have been a lot more compelling if he had even a fraction of his pre-Flashpoint history as a villain, thus making the tables turning that much deeper.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    If Ares was holding his own just fine then why did the First Born come *this close* to killing Ares before Diana did? Plus if the First Born was really a force to be reckoned with, how come Diana was able defeat him by tricking him into falling into a pit? Hardly a good showing for someone said to be able to destroy all of creation. As for the sensei angle, that's kind of overused at this point IMO.
    Because:
    Ares wanted Diana to kill him.
    The pit was a 7000 year climb.
    As the king of Olympus he would be able to, Zeke had just taken the throne prior to the trip down the hole
    It's overused, because it works.

    As you may have guessed, I will prefer Ares returning in his New 52 guise and persona rather than his Perez incarnation, since I felt the old version definitely lacked in personality beyond a rather cartoonishly evil badguy.

  6. #66
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    So Cheetah's taking orders from the Penguin in the new animated movie now? Yeah, that makes sense, ugh. What's next, Ares doing the Riddler's bidding? Or perhaps Circe working for Hush?

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkKnightReturns View Post
    And Cheetah running away from Catwoman is sad too.
    Let's not forget Batman defeating Circe in a magical duel during Amazon's Attack by using a book/a few magic words that Zatanna gave him. First of all, I love Zatanna, but Zatanna herself shouldn't be able to beat Circe when it comes to magic (JLU got this one right), let alone Batman (who's my favorite character btw) using essentially borrowed stuff.

  8. #68
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    It feels like Flash and Green Arrow were picked due to having their own TV shows while villains were picked based on "lets pick some villains that looks like animals" and Cheetah managed to make the cut. This reminds me of her appearance in that Forever Evil tie-in with Steve Trevor where she was basically running a Zoo of villains. I think many people in "power" see her as villain with animal gimmick and not as something important to Wonder Woman or anyone for that matter.
    Yeah, they tend to focus on the animal part and not on the other things, like her divine nature of her archaeological/treasure hunting background. The FE story was the biggest slap in the face, as she seemed intended to be one of the main characters of the mini and play a role in rescuing the Justice League while Matt Kindt was writing it. Then Gates came on board, had her make a useless appearance with her animal friends, and lavished attention on a bunch of Firestorm villains. The hell?

  9. #69
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    My favorite Ares are Rucka and Azzarello, he is much better played on the gray side. makes a much more complex villain.

    I can only expect flash to take out cheetah in the animated movie, no trick arrows or batarangs

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    Because:
    Ares wanted Diana to kill him.
    The pit was a 7000 year climb.
    As the king of Olympus he would be able to, Zeke had just taken the throne prior to the trip down the hole
    It's overused, because it works.

    As you may have guessed, I will prefer Ares returning in his New 52 guise and persona rather than his Perez incarnation, since I felt the old version definitely lacked in personality beyond a rather cartoonishly evil badguy.
    The same can be said of Ares as a villain if you want to use that logic.

  11. #71
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    I'd like to see measure Circe's magic skills against someone like Zatanna or Dr Fate. It could be an interesting fight.

  12. #72
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    Doctor Fate would probably be a match for her. Zatanna, she's not no shot against Circe in a straight-up magic fight (and I say that as someone who really likes her character).

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    Doctor Fate would probably be a match for her. Zatanna, she's not no shot against Circe in a straight-up magic fight (and I say that as someone who really likes her character).
    The myths seem inconsistent with whether Circe is a goddess, a witch or a nymph. I think that's why writers have issue portraying her as a consistent threat because they don't know what she's supposed to be.

  14. #74
    Extraordinary Member Vanguard-01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksun View Post
    My favorite Ares are Rucka and Azzarello, he is much better played on the gray side. makes a much more complex villain.
    Ares does not work as a gray character. There's nothing gray about him. Especially not in Diana's world.

    Ares is the direct antithesis of everything Diana stands for. She works for peace. He wants endless war and bloodshed.

    He can be more complex than just being "Ares smash! Grrrr!" But there should be no real gray area between him and Diana.

    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    Doctor Fate would probably be a match for her. Zatanna, she's not no shot against Circe in a straight-up magic fight (and I say that as someone who really likes her character).
    I would say that Zatanna is like the "Batman" of magic. She can beat almost any magical foe if she has adequate time to prepare for him/her.

    Can Zee beat Circe in just a spur of the moment throwdown? No. Highly unlikely. But if she knows she'll be going up against Circe and has time to prepare for her, she might at least have a chance. Maybe she gets her hands on some moly, or figures out some spells that are custom built to stymie Circe's magic. But I wouldn't say Zee has no chance at all against Circe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The myths seem inconsistent with whether Circe is a goddess, a witch or a nymph. I think that's why writers have issue portraying her as a consistent threat because they don't know what she's supposed to be.
    Story of Diana's entire existence. Her villains, too.

    I'll never understand why DC can't just TELL their writers "Nope! Sorry, but that villain is too powerful for that to work on. She just took on the entire Justice League, for crying out loud! She doesn't go down to one stupid trick arrow."
    Though much is taken, much abides; and though
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

    --Lord Alfred Tennyson--

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard-01 View Post
    Ares does not work as a gray character. There's nothing gray about him. Especially not in Diana's world.

    Ares is the direct antithesis of everything Diana stands for. She works for peace. He wants endless war and bloodshed.

    He can be more complex than just being "Ares smash! Grrrr!" But there should be no real gray area between him and Diana.



    I would say that Zatanna is like the "Batman" of magic. She can beat almost any magical foe if she has adequate time to prepare for him/her.

    Can Zee beat Circe in just a spur of the moment throwdown? No. Highly unlikely. But if she knows she'll be going up against Circe and has time to prepare for her, she might at least have a chance. Maybe she gets her hands on some moly, or figures out some spells that are custom built to stymie Circe's magic. But I wouldn't say Zee has no chance at all against Circe.



    Story of Diana's entire existence. Her villains, too.

    I'll never understand why DC can't just TELL their writers "Nope! Sorry, but that villain is too powerful for that to work on. She just took on the entire Justice League, for crying out loud! She doesn't go down to one stupid trick arrow."

    Which is why Ares is the perfect nemesis for Wonder Woman. I'm sorry but too many DC writers over the years made a joke out of Cheetah for to taken be seriously as a valid enemy for Wonder Woman now. Ares is perfect and he will resonate to the general audience if he is used in the upcoming Wonder Woman. I mean you don't need to know a lot about Greek mythology to know that Ares is the God of War. Thats why no DC writers on other books think about using him because they know he is a god and therefore cannot be takedown by powerless humans with their stupid batarangs and trick arrows. Plus he has strong visuals that scream hey guy I'm THE bad guy. Cheetah ? Nope.

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