Would the classic suit be better accepted if they worked in the inspirations for it?

[Prime]

Trunks are not coming back. Get over it. That being said, there are better Superman redesigns on Google images than what Jim Lee did.

[Stanlos]

There's also the thing about the current suit not being destroyed every time he goes super-sonic.

This Superman doesnt have that bio-electric aura that was introduced with Bryne, and those early Action issues had him tearing his t-shirt and jeans all to hell almost every issue.

The armor doesnt protect Clark from harm, it protects him from being naked after a fight. And, as Sacred said, he wears it because its from Krypton.

That said, it is a absolutely terrible design and only looks good when artists like Fabok put their own spin on it.

But the idea that its intimidating is just ridiculous. Its bright, shiny blue. Might as well say a Wal-Mart greeter's vest is scary.

I have to agree with Ascended. Further, I would add that SUPERMAN doesn't need to wear anything to be intimidating. The fact that he is SUPERMAN is intimidating.

In fact, I am waiting for an Elseworlds where he is naked save for the cape.

[ManSinha]

Trunks are not coming back. Get over it. That being said, there are better Superman redesigns on Google images than what Jim Lee did.

Co-signed - exactly

[Tra-EL]

The point is he doesn't wear it because its armor. He wears it because its a keepsake of his homeworld that hey, happens to be a suit that can be worn. That's why he wears it. That its armor is entirely happenstance at this point. He's even outright pointed this out in the narrative. He knows he doesn't need it. He doesn't care. Its from Krypton and it reflects that as well as his House.

As far as it being threatening....not even a little bit. Not being identified as being made of cloth fibers does not make something more or less threatening looking. By and large it and the classic costume are nearly identical. If this costume looks threatening, then so does the classic one. When looked at from that angle, the theory falls apart.

I agree that the armor isn't threatening or terrifying in the least bit sense (as well as him wearing it because it's a keepsake from his deceased planet.) In fact, the armor, to the naked eye and to somebody who doesn't necessarily understand Superman's capabilities, would come off as an illusion to do the complete opposite. Armor acts as protection and if Superman is wearing armor, it shows he has weakness and that he can be hurt, thus, easing people's beliefs of what he truly is capable of doing. Armor ultimately shows that one has a weakness hiding under there, so that would give people who are in fear of him a reason to believe he can be hurt and he isn't this this invincible Super-man everyone thinks he is. I agree that if the armor is "frightening" then so is the classic spandex that ultimately hides no potential weakness.

As for a new suit? It's time for the Man of Steel suit; BvS suit to adapt to the strips. It's time for that suit to make its transition to the pages.

[manofsteel1979]

Playing devil's advocate here, but the fact is the classic costume prior to the 1986 revamp was always depicted as being super durable on it's own. In the very early Siegel and shuster stories he actually MADE the suit himself from a special fabric he himself invented. Later it got retconned as them being made from neigh invulnerable Kryptonian fabric. Waid and later Johns also brought that back in recent years once the Byrne bioelectric aura idea faded away. So the explanation for needing the suit to be armor does fall apart somewhat when looking at it from that angle.

My main beef with the idea of Superman wearing armor is not that it makes him seem intimidating. In fact if anything, it actually makes Superman seem less powerful and thus somewhat impotent. Subconsciously armor usually equates in our minds with needing it to protect the wearer. Yes, I know the in story logic for it, but show a picture of armored up Superman to the average layperson who is unaware,of that detail, their first reaction likely would be " why does Superman need armor? He's Superman! ". Or " what's wrong with Superman? I thought he was supposed to be indestructible."

I also think sometimes we overthink things when it comes to these characters. We are obsessing over " how does this power work? " or " how does his suit stay in one piece". Most other people just want to see him do cool stuff and don't bother to get bogged down in such minutiae. We forget sometimes it's supposed to be fantasy. Everything doesn't need an explanation. To quote Frank Miller, " I don't need to see sweat stains under his pits, I just wanna see him fly." His suit is invulnerable because it is. He can fly because he can.

That being said, I don't care about the trunks. Most people don't care about the trunks or give much thought to it either way. If you are embarrased about the prospect of reading a story where the protagonist dresses like a circus strong man, or are afraid someone is going to ridicule you for being an adult are In fear of being seen reading a comic book with a Superman in the old uniform, well perhaps you shouldn't be reading superhero comics in the first place, or at the very least rethink your priorites( not saying anyone here is using that as a reason they want to see the classic uniform stay in the mothballs, but that mentality does exist out there in fandom.)


The fact is and remains that the Jim Lee armor was just a terrible design and created a solution to a problem that never really existed. It sucked in 2011 and it sucks now and will still suck in 10 years should they decide to keep it. The sensible thing would be to either bring back the old suit and just remove the trunks from the design, or just port over the MOS design. The later seems to be the popular compromise.

[Agniwolf]

Playing devil's advocate here, but the fact is the classic costume prior to the 1986 revamp was always depicted as being super durable on it's own. In the very early Siegel and shuster stories he actually MADE the suit himself from a special fabric he himself invented. Later it got retconned as them being made from neigh invulnerable Kryptonian fabric. Waid and later Johns also brought that back in recent years once the Byrne bioelectric aura idea gaded away. So the explanation for needing the suit to be armor does fall apart somewhat when looking at it from that angle.

My main beef with the idea of Superman wearing armor is not that it makes him seem intimidating. In fact if anything, it actually makes Superman seem less powerful. Subconsciously armor usually equates in our minds with needing it to protect the warer. Yes, I know the in story logic for it, but show a picture of armored up Superman to the average layperson who is unaware, their first reaction likely would be " why does Superman need armor? He's Superman! ".

I also think sometimes we overthink things when it comes to these characters. We are obsessing over " how does this power work? " or " how does his suit stay in one piece". Most other people just want to see him do cool stuff and don't bother to get bogged down in such minutiae. We forget sometimes it's supposed to be fantasy. Everything doesn't need an explanation. To quote Frank Miller, " I don't need to see sweat stains under his pits, I just wanna see him fly."

That being said, I don't care about the trunks. Most people don't care about the trunks or give much thought to it either way. If you are embarrased about the prospect of reading a story where the protagonist dresses like a circus strong man, or are afraid someone is going to ridicule you for being an adult and are seen reading a comic book with a Superman in the old uniform, well perhaps you shouldn't be reading superhero comics in the first place, or at the very least rethink your priorites( not saying anyone here is using that as a reason they want to see the classic uniform stay in the mothballs, but that mentality does exist out there in fandom.)


The fact is and remains that the Jim Lee armor was just a terrible design and created a solution to a problem that never really existed. It sucked in 2011 and it sucks now and will still suck in 10 years should they decide to keep it. The sensible thing would be to either bring back the old suit and just remove the trunks from the design, or just port over the MOS design.

agreed, but i must say im one of the rare people who like the cba, colar and everything. it makes sense as a relic and memento, and yes i accept you questioning my taste when i say it looks cool to me

[manofsteel1979]

agreed, but i must say im one of the rare people who like the cba, colar and everything. it makes sense as a relic and memento, and yes i accept you questioning my taste when i say it looks cool to me

Hey taste is all subjective. I happen to think the Lee suit is an eyesore...others don't. Doesn't mean either of us wrong.

[ManSinha]

But the pivotal question this little exchange brings up is "Would either of you still buy the books if the decision went the other way" - reason I ask is that many consider Superman's fandom so divided that the creators on the book are hamstrung over direction (I know it is not an excuse) but since I saw opposite viewpoints on a zero sum game - thought I'd ask

[Agniwolf]

But the pivotal question this little exchange brings up is "Would either of you still buy the books if the decision went the other way" - reason I ask is that many consider Superman's fandom so divided that the creators on the book are hamstrung over direction (I know it is not an excuse) but since I saw opposite viewpoints on a zero sum game - thought I'd ask

a very hard question, you see the suit itself would "bring the answer" on what kind of superman will be writen from here on, the clasic suit, for me, would mean that they turned backwards toward the depiction of the char, and as such i would probably avoid it, so it is a very subjective and hard question by the end of the day

[manofsteel1979]

But the pivotal question this little exchange brings up is "Would either of you still buy the books if the decision went the other way" - reason I ask is that many consider Superman's fandom so divided that the creators on the book are hamstrung over direction (I know it is not an excuse) but since I saw opposite viewpoints on a zero sum game - thought I'd ask

Oh of course. As long as the stories were good. Hell, I've kept buying the Superman titles for 4 years even though I've not liked the costume (and you I'm sure are aware of my feelings over the ship in your avatar.) I have been buying Superman comics in some form since I was 12 years old and I don't see myself stopping after 26 years of following this guys adventures. I've seen him Die. I've seen him come back with a mullet. I've seen him marry and then not be married. he's looked like an electrofied smurf and a street brawler and everything in between. I've read great stories and horrible stories. I'm either a devoted fan or a sadist, take your pick. Technically Im on a temporary hiatus of reading the main titles as i got fed up with TRUTH and SAVAGE DAWN,but I'm still reading Lois & Clark, JUSTICE LEAGUE and AMERICAN ALIEN, and I will likely eventually read the rest of what I missed at some point. Going Digital has made that easier.

There are times I've whined and moaned and threatened to stop reading at times, and the last 10 years there have been times I've REALLY been tempted to hang it up,but ultimately my love for this character and his mythology keeps roping me in.

Again....I'm either really devoted or I am a glutton for punishment. Either is true from a certain point of view.

[ManSinha]

Oh of course. As long as the stories were good. Hell, I've kept buying the Superman titles for 4 years even though I've not liked the costume (and you I'm sure are aware of my feelings over the ship in your avatar.)
Again....I'm either really devoted or I am a glutton for punishment. Either is true from a certain point of view.

Thanks - I guess other than the ship portion we may agree on quite a few things

I am at a loss - much as I want to continue supporting my favorite character and yet I am torn between that and "voting with my wallet"
Guess I have not decided
I have not renewed my subscriptions as most of what I was buying is coming to an end - so some time for me to contemplate
I do agree that a strong creative team given some freedom to innovate is key to success.

Wonder who we shall end up getting .....and for how long

[Last Son]

Trunks are not coming back. Get over it. That being said, there are better Superman redesigns on Google images than what Jim Lee did.

You have no way of knowing that for sure. As many times as they've gone retro in other respects, the classic suit returning would not surprise me at all. And really, there's no need to be rude just because some of us prefer a suit style that you dislike.

[Agent Z]

The problem with the "Armor": It comes across as threatening. A guy who has all the powers Superman has.... and he's armored up? It would look unnecessarily scary to the average person. Yeah, yeah it makes him look more "badass" to some comic book readers, but scary isn't what Superman does. That's Batman's thing, he's supposed to look bigger and scarier than he is. Armor makes sense for Wonder Woman given the martial world of the Amazons. Armor plating Superman always reeked of 90s overthink. One possible in-universe explanation of the Trunks: we already live in an age of Retro-Hipness. If the kids are now walking around with 'staches and beardos from the late 19th / early 20th century a Superhero who invokes the "Super-Man" of the Charles Atlas/Circus Strongman era really isn't out of place in 21st Century America. It would be "Ironic Hipster" to be sure, but Superman isn't trying to terrify or be too formidable in appearance. This is a guy who moves planets and can burn you with his eyes (and occasionally snap Kryptonian necks :-) ).

Really? If anything it makes him look like he can be hurt.

[manofsteel1979]

Really? If anything it makes him look like he can be hurt.

Exactly. As I said, it's the main sticking point I've had with the concept. If anything, the fact the non armored suit appeared to be simple cloth underlined how indestructible he is. If anything THAT is more intimidating.

[jimishim12]

Exactly. As I said, it's the main sticking point I've had with the concept. If anything, the fact the non armored suit appeared to be simple cloth underlined how indestructible he is. If anything THAT is more intimidating.

Still won't stop characters like Spider-Man, Dante from Devil May Cry or Dr. Who from making jokes about it and looking completely silly.