Don't cancel Grayson

[ABH]

Okay, I won't.

Wait, sorry, I'm being told that it isn't up to me.

Just hope that Nightwing can somehow be as good as Grayson was. Maybe he'll still have a connection to the DC spyworld while returning to hero business.

[Deniz Camp]

I think a lot of the great, vital energy of Grayson can and will be replicated in the new Nightwing book. I'm guess it'll be Seeley writing, perhaps solo. I think you'll get some of the same sci fi global feel, too.

But one that thing I believe a new status quo has to try to replicate, something that was coming to an end anyway, is the moral and emotional friction that being part of Spyral generated. It worked precisely because it was so against his character -- it chafed, and in chafing he had the opportunity to define himself all the more clearly and powerfully, and was imbued with a large amount of pathos.

We had a similar dynamic in Batman and Robin, where Dick was defined in relation to a character who was, in many ways, his polar opposite, who forced him to confront and speak to his morality and method. Spyral and Damian, both, had to either be transformed or defeated, there could be no other outcome, and that Dick transformed Damian and, I think, is moving towards transforming Spyral says a lot about his character.

But once that victory is gained, that friction disappears. It's too comfortable. And, in the case of Spyral, having the resources of a benevolent spy agency at your command would also kill a lot of your drama and any given story's sense of jeopardy.

Interestingly, I think the Green Lantern Corps as it currently functions does the same.

[Badou]

Yeah, again, everything that made Grayson great can be brought over and applied to Nightwing, with an easier and clearer branding and a slightly more flexible (within the DCU, at least) status quo (one that allows for more seamless integration into the Titans, for instance).

The one thing that can't be brought is the friction generated from Grayson being a double agent within spyral but that was, by its very nature, a finite status quo, and we're already starting to see it degrade. Spyral as a semi-antagonist, though, should function quite nicely.

Him running around in a superhero costume calling himself Nightwing is going to have a very different feel from what Grayson is currently. I don't think you can just combine the two and expect it to feel the same as what Grayson is at the moment. Him going back to Nightwing is going to change how the stories are constructed to even how they draw him.

[HLOTS]

Well the comic sales were almost the same. Nightwing's sales were sometimes higher thanks to the Batman events. So yeah Dick can sell almost as many comics as Nightwing under his own name.

Grayson did not sell bad honestly. Especially in an over saturated market.

Bottom line, Nightwing sells better, and obviously DC has no faith in /doesn't believe it will do better with Grayson.

[Badou]

Grayson sold better digitally, but Nightwing did sell better overall probably. Though it had the benefit of the hype surrounding the New 52 to help it and was heavily connected to Synder's Court of Owls story early on, which was the best selling New 52 title/story to date. So maybe it isn't surprising that they are going back to Nightwing and are having him deal with the Court of Owls again (I'm guessing that is what they are going to do) given that was when the title sold its best.

[joybeans]

Bottom line, Nightwing sells better, and obviously DC has no faith in /doesn't believe it will do better with Grayson.

Nightwing launched with the New 52, when DC's success was at its highest in a long time. Nightwing also had the benefit of tying in with Snyder's Bat events.

Grayson, on the other hand, launched right after DC's momentum with the New 52 had subsided. And suffered through the post-Convergence period, when DC's marketshare was dropping hard.

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

DC had no choice really. Nightwing, even when mediocre, sells better than Grayson.

Bottom line, Nightwing sells better, and obviously DC has no faith in /doesn't believe it will do better with Grayson.

not calling you out or anything, but curious as to how accurate that really is.

I've said it for a while, DC really had a potential goldmine w/ Grayson. The spy genre is something that can cross multi-media so well and something they could've established as a mainstay in their core line, or at least had the niche category on lockdown. Bond, Bourne, Jack Ryan, Mission Impossible... Grayson could've easily opened up more opportunities for video games, TV shows, etc than Nightwing.

[SiegePerilous02]

Y'know, people rag on DC having nostalgia for the Silver/Bronze Age, but catering to the nostalgia of the 90s/2000s crowd is just as bad IMO.

Dick back as Nightwing isn't an inherently bad idea in itself provided it was with the same creative team and they were allowed to experiment, but I have this fear he's just going back to Bludhave (or something similar) and interacting with bland civilians and fighting crappy villains. And the news that Matron might be erased in favor of Helena B/Huntress also has me worried. I'm really not thrilled at the idea of her whining about Batman judging her as she tries to kill people again.

Don't mess this is up DC. There's a middle ground here that could be reached, but I fear they're gonna miss the mark (again).

[jules]

Nightwing launched with the New 52, when DC's success was at its highest in a long time. Nightwing also had the benefit of tying in with Snyder's Bat events.

Grayson, on the other hand, launched right after DC's momentum with the New 52 had subsided. And suffered through the post-Convergence period, when DC's marketshare was dropping hard.

It probably didn't help that Grayson was one of the books that had a price hike after Convergence. Or that its trade paperback release schedule was so badly botched. Nothing but a hardcover release until 18 months after the book's launch? Really? All the people I recommended it to had probably lost any interest by then.

And yet in spite of all that it still managed to pull in fairly respectable numbers. There's no easy way to compare it with Nightwing though, because they existed in such completely different market conditions.

[RoyImpulse]

All I want is for Nightwing to basically be Grayson just with a title change. This was not a concept that needed to be "fixed" so I hope they wised up and realized that. They do have a nasty habit of "fixing" what isn't broken though so I'm skeptical.

I'm with you on this. But, I just don't see how it'll be this way from the writing to the drawing. Dick in a Nightwing suit is a different vibe than Dick in the Grayson outfit.

[Dzetoun]

He's already losing the artist and then the writers who made the book what it was, so what's the difference?

Well, Seeley, King, and Janin have said that they'll be back to Dick stories in some form. We just don't know if that means something like King taking over Batman and including Dick as a supporting character, or something like Janin drawing Titans, or even Seeley on Suicide Squad which starts with a Nightwing crossover, etc.

Well, take this as you will, but Matt Santori Griffith, the senior editor of COMICOSITY, has posted this on his Twitter over the last couple of days:

https://twitter.com/FotoCub/status/700691698670817280

More recently, he posted this:

https://twitter.com/FotoCub/status/701085082149257216

Make sure you open up the full conversation on the first link.

[comicstar100]

Perhaps his book could be split between being a secret agent and Nightwing, nobody says he can't do both.

[SiegePerilous02]

Well, take this as you will, but Matt Santori Griffith, the senior editor of COMICOSITY, has posted this on his Twitter over the last couple of days:

https://twitter.com/FotoCub/status/700691698670817280

More recently, he posted this:

https://twitter.com/FotoCub/status/701085082149257216

Make sure you open up the full conversation on the first link.

Well this is encouraging.

I'd be bummed about Orlando on Suicide Squad though, because I really liked Seeley's first issue and wanted it to keep going past this arc.

[Agent Z]

Y'know, people rag on DC having nostalgia for the Silver/Bronze Age, but catering to the nostalgia of the 90s/2000s crowd is just as bad IMO.

Dick back as Nightwing isn't an inherently bad idea in itself provided it was with the same creative team and they were allowed to experiment, but I have this fear he's just going back to Bludhave (or something similar) and interacting with bland civilians and fighting crappy villains. And the news that Matron might be erased in favor of Helena B/Huntress also has me worried. I'm really not thrilled at the idea of her whining about Batman judging her as she tries to kill people again.

Don't mess this is up DC. There's a middle ground here that could be reached, but I fear they're gonna miss the mark (again).

Tbf, DC doesn't do a whole lot of catering to 90s/2000s nostalgia.

[joybeans]

Well, take this as you will, but Matt Santori Griffith, the senior editor of COMICOSITY, has posted this on his Twitter over the last couple of days:

https://twitter.com/FotoCub/status/700691698670817280

More recently, he posted this:

https://twitter.com/FotoCub/status/701085082149257216

Make sure you open up the full conversation on the first link.

I think he knows only about as much as we know. Which could very well be as much as DC knows right now.