Will you drop Superman if he is rebooted again?

[Tayswift]

Althought my scenario was short, I thought it was very clear. I wouldn't blame Diana if she left Clark for Steve right now, I still hope that she can forgive him and Clark finally, FINALLY, starts to accept that he still has things to learn and makes it up to her.

only if she is very dumb, he ended things with her and treated her like garbage. I just hope they won't go the route Liz keen from blacklist. I'm pretty sure writers can
also superman clearly has feeling for lois, and WW still loves steve.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/...-9-8-c92cd.jpg


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQGR55rWsAA1LEC.jpg

Drop his ass Diana. Kill him.


EDIT: Instead of all this rant, let me just put this here: There are precedents that a scenario created to ridicule Clark as his relationship with Diana ends could happen. It wouldn't be us Superman fans being 'sexist' against it. Ridiculing Superman, not only his love life and relationships, has happened before and could happen again.

what I see is that fans see superman manhood dependend that he dates wonder woman, and if WW just happen to date another man superman lost his manhood. that is why I am against smww, WW is not his property

To be fair, Unchained doesn't count because...well, Unchained sucks.

Seriously though, aside from it sucking it clearly didn't mesh with anything in the New 52 and shouldn't' have had that label. It was pre-Flashpoint in New 52 clothes.

it's your opinion. I think unchained and lois and clark are the best superman books on new 52. Unchained sold so well, too bad DC decided to end it too early.

[Tayswift]

Except it was Action 46 I believe (one of the recent Superman books) that had Steve telling Clark that Diana and Clark were "made for each other and made each other happy" - so not sure Steve is being shown as ready to jump into that breach anytime soon and a panel from Superman #49 shows Diana saying "We are not done yet, Kal-El" - I may be wearing rose tinted glasses but there are signs of hope there for me - ironic that Pak and Yang give us more heartfelt SM/WW moments than Tomasi

LOl that was ironic, he was being ironic just that, on JL h emade the moves. steve not dead kkk

[ManSinha]

LOl that was ironic, he was being ironic just that, on JL h emade the moves. steve not dead kkk

I stated my opinion and what you are stating is yours - there is a bunch of people out there that have a contrarian view

Again I ask - do have any factual evidence backing up the statement you made other than it is you opinion? I have called you out before and I am calling you out on this again

[dumbduck]

only if she is very dumb, he ended things with her and treated her like garbage. I just hope they won't go the route Liz keen from blacklist. I'm pretty sure writers can
also superman clearly has feeling for lois, and WW still loves steve.

I googled the name, but -

http://the-blacklist.wikia.com/wiki/Elizabeth_Keen

- I'm not going to read all of this to know what you are getting at. It probably has nothing to do with Clark and Diana. Clark went through a very hard time, his house was demolished, the government turned against him, the people closest to him kidnapped. At least he never stopped fighting. He was an idiot, but I hope that Diana can understand his fears and forgive him. If after all of this, writers finally allow the character to move forward, to show growth, then Truth will not have been so bad.

what I see is that fans see superman manhood dependend that he dates wonder woman, and if WW just happen to date another man superman lost his manhood. that is why I am against smww, WW is not his property

I could give a few examples that prove my point, but I know I'd just be spurring on creators that can't help but be immature about this. If my words are not enough for you I'll just let this go.

Even though I think that Yang wanted the reader to read between the lines on his personal stance on the relationship by having Steve recite the most superficial of details as to why they work together, the base narrative is supposed to be Steve basically getting over it and being accepting of the situation. So again just another situation where the right hand has no idea what the left is doing.

Not between the lines, IMO, it was a pretty clear insult to our fanbase, just like in Justice League. Funnily enough a good example of what Superman fans have to endure.

[MeloDet]

My initial reaction to your post was hell no, but thinking about it some more I think I'd be willing to give quite a few versions a try. I'd be more than ok with option A for example and since I jumped on with the New 52 I'm not as reboot fatigued as everyone else, so I'd definitely give option C a shot to. Where they might lose me though is if they went for option B or if they brought back Pre-Flashpoint Superman entirely. I'm willing to give most versions a try (especially since I'm loving American Alien even though Landis' Clark is far from my ideal), but what I'm not willing to do is be dropped right into the middle of a character's timeline. I've really enjoyed being able to read N52 Superman from the beginning so if they went for option B I wouldn't want much more than a few personality traits/minor backstory retcons to come from Post-Crisis Supes. Take the marriage for example; I have no issue with the Clark having a relationship with anyone but I NEED to see it progress, so if they were merged I wouldn't want the marriage or kid to carry over. I don't have any issue with either element (Superman is absolutely a character that I can see getting married eventually), but to me he's not a "married character" like Animal Man where his marriage is a part of his character from the onset. Similarly I wouldn't want the character to drastically jump to ANY new status quo. If the two were to be merged I'd want them to treat it as something of a fresh start. Combine the elements they want from each version and start a NEW incarnation and his story from the beginning.

[Tayswift]

I stated my opinion and what you are stating is yours - there is a bunch of people out there that have a contrarian view

Again I ask - do have any factual evidence backing up the statement you made other than it is you opinion? I have called you out before and I am calling you out on this again

It's not opinion, Steve made his moves. he never said he stopped loving wonder woman

I googled the name, but -

http://the-blacklist.wikia.com/wiki/Elizabeth_Keen

- I'm not going to read all of this to know what you are getting at. It probably has nothing to do with Clark and Diana. Clark went through a very hard time, his house was demolished, the government turned against him, the people closest to him kidnapped. At least he never stopped fighting. He was an idiot, but I hope that Diana can understand his fears and forgive him. If after all of this, writers finally allow the character to move forward, to show growth, then Truth will not have been so bad.

the wikia has nothing relevant. I used Liz keen as a example of bad writing of female protagonists. A girl said tat when she grow up she doesn't want to be dumb and a fool like Liz. I could only agree, let's stop making female characters dumb as hell because men? it isn't even love, it is obssession and fear to be alone.
whatever happened with superman is not his right hurt people that loves him, he is a complete jerk and I see no reason WW has to put up with this kind of behavior. If superman loved her, he would treat her better.

I could give a few examples that prove my point, but I know I'd just be spurring on creators that can't help but be immature about this. If my words are not enough for you I'll just let this go.

ok so

[ManSinha]

It's not opinion, Steve made his moves. he never said he stopped loving wonder woman

What part of provide evidence do you not get IF this is not your opinion?

[ssupes]

what I see is that fans see superman manhood dependend that he dates wonder woman, and if WW just happen to date another man superman lost his manhood. that is why I am against smww, WW is not his property

Sorry but where have you seen fans saying that superman's manhood depends on him dating Wonder Woman? Because I haven't seen it. The only fan I saw mocking Superman's manhood was a Steve Trevor fan. Also you claim to hate fans that see Wonder Woman as a piece of property? Then you must Really hate the BM/WW thing seeing as I see endless comments describing here as "Batman's Chick".

It's not opinion, Steve made his moves. he never said he stopped loving wonder woman

Yes but the action comic issue was released after that Justice League issue so your going to have to do a little better then the usual "it's the way I say it is and there is nothing you can do to prove me wrong".

[ManSinha]

Sorry but where have you seen fans saying that superman's manhood depends on him dating Wonder Woman? Because I haven't seen it. The only fan I saw mocking Superman's manhood was a Steve Trevor fan. Also you claim to hate fans that see Wonder Woman as a piece of property? Then you must Really hate the BM/WW thing seeing as I see endless comments describing here as "Batman's Chick".



Yes but the action comic issue was released after that Justice League issue so your going to have to do a little better then the usual "it's the way I say it is and there is nothing you can do to prove me wrong".

I called this poster out a couple of times - time for them to labeled a troll on Superman / WW discussions

[Tayswift]

What part of provide evidence do you not get IF this is not your opinion?

you didn't read JL 46

[Tayswift]

Sorry but where have you seen fans saying that superman's manhood depends on him dating Wonder Woman? Because I haven't seen it. The only fan I saw mocking Superman's manhood was a Steve Trevor fan. Also you claim to hate fans that see Wonder Woman as a piece of property? Then you must Really hate the BM/WW thing seeing as I see endless comments describing here as "Batman's Chick".

allright. the post that I first quoted really seemed like WW wih another guy is a humiliation to superman manhood. the op weightned on it and explained to me.
good that batman's chick is catwoman or talia, but I'm not a BMWW shipper even if I think it has chemistry.

Yes but the action comic issue was released after that Justice League issue so your going to have to do a little better then the usual "it's the way I say it is and there is nothing you can do to prove me wrong".

one thing has nothing to do qith another. a comic can be published first but be forward on the timeline. and JL war is forward on the timeline

I see that I derailed the thread, sorry for the OP

[ManSinha]

and JL war is forward on the timeline

Where is the evidence that is anything but an opinion? And he never said "love" it could be "care", "remember" or even "hate" not likely but again - you are putting things down as fact without evidence when it is merely your opinion

[Tayswift]

Where is the evidence that is anything but an opinion? And he never said "love" it could be "care", "remember" or even "hate" not likely but again - you are putting things down as fact without evidence when it is merely your opinion

it is pretty obvious. Darkseid war solicits says that the event sets the stage for the future of DC. truth and any book right now doesn't meantion a epic event like DS, it would make the even redundant and without any consequence.

[Sacred Knight]

Its far from obvious. If you're going to call out people pointing out they're giving an opinion all the time (as if that isn't obvious in the first place), its best not to try and make everything you say seem like fact. It is in fact a complete unknown and might not ever be known. Quite possibly they didn't even think ahead of time where it fits in the narrative of continuity, because the failed DCYou project tried to diminish continuity in the first place. There's continuity issues no matter where you place Darkseid War.

Though, amusingly enough, the one piece of evidence we might have, Janin's Super League panels showing a course of events, has DS events occurring first.

[dumbduck]

the wikia has nothing relevant. I used Liz keen as a example of bad writing of female protagonists. A girl said tat when she grow up she doesn't want to be dumb and a fool like Liz. I could only agree, let's stop making female characters dumb as hell because men? it isn't even love, it is obssession and fear to be alone.
whatever happened with superman is not his right hurt people that loves him, he is a complete jerk and I see no reason WW has to put up with this kind of behavior. If superman loved her, he would treat her better.

I can't really defend against this. I saw that the SM/WW #22 scene would be badly written when it 1st appeared back in May 2015.


http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/...-sm-ww-jpg.jpg

(05-27-2015)

From the solicit I was afraid it would mean a weak minded Clark, I was not wrong. I don't think people forgot, but in the end of doomed he let doomsday kill him. He didn't have the spirit to just 'free' doomsday, but let it outright 'kill' him. Only Brainiac later ressurrected him. This kind of characterization is getting tiring.

Here's what the bait stopped people from discussing:

This story is already a bad sign for continuity and consistency. Clark shouldn't be desperate to jump into the sun. This is right after the BM/SM annual. Clark has the wound in his torso still bleeding. Why would he be so desperate? He was perfectly fine using the solar flare knowing he would be powerless for the next 24 hours. He shouldn't be desperate, but instead in an hospital to get the wound fixed. If too much time had passed since then he would have bled out. Wouldn't make the least sense.

Someone can say that he has the T-shirt and new haircut. Yes, but the only preview where he gets such a wound is BM/SM annual. So yeah, not good signs for consistency. Or characterization for Clark.

About the final page. I don't like it, not because I believe it, but because it makes him weak minded and whiny. Tomasi, Pak, Yang, if anyone is reading this... I'm begging. I'm literally on my knees typing this, begging for better characterization for Clark. No, don't avert your eyes. I'll do this every time until we get better characterization for Clark. You brought this upon yourselves.

I'm just trying to come up with reasons to defend Clark. The government betrayed him, he lost access to the FOS, Lois revealed his Id... But then I stumble again - I thought that Lois revealing the Id was stupid from the start. Unfair to the character and her fandom. Creating drama to prop up controversy amongst the Lois fandom. I saw it from the start.

But well, what a start. I thought about writing to Misslane that Lois' role probably would be of a great supporting friend to Clark. It's a bad sign for me if DC is already drumming up drama like that.

I thought losing access to the FOS *again* after Doomed was stupid. Clark suddenly having moral problems with Diana's lasso came out of nowhere. His treatment of her after she saved his friends made no sense.

Yet still I defended Truth because I thought that we would get a 'positive' story for Clark. That he would at least be allowed to fight 'real' social issues. Not even that. In and out of universe I have no defense to this disaster.