Should Jeff Lemire out Storm as LGBT?

[K-Kitsune]

This isn't proof of anything. Just because people don't explore their emotional and sexual feelings every time they are together doesn't mean those feelings aren't there. And Pak was under no obligation to do a big LGBT story, but it doesn't mean the previous relationship wasn't there. Pak's story was highly interesting as it dealt with Storm feeling heart broken over Yukio making such poor choices. I don't think Storm is in love with Yukio anymore, but that's because Storm's a pompous witch.

Storm's not actually a witch, she just has magic potential!

[RandyMcDonald]

Eh :/ anyone could be in the closet.

There's plausibility and there's plausibility.

Why did none of the telepathic lovers of Scott, or Warren, pick up on their lover's closetedness and act accordingly? It's not as if Jean, or Emma, or Betsy are incapable of acting in their own self-interest.

There's a bit more space with Beast, but not that much more. He's established as having long-lasting, if on-and-off, relationhips with women, Trish Tilby and Abigail Brand being his most notable recent partners. In context, his statement that he was gay was pretty clearly a dig at an ex who hurt him badly, and there's also Emma's statement that she knows he's completely straight.

There's none of this with Bobby. There is only a series of relationships with women which keep going nowhere, and a series of behaviours reflective of being deeply in the closet. There has been fan speculation going back to the 1990s that he could be in the closet. Of the four guys, he was pretty clearly the best candidate.

The only other plausible option for an outing would be Jean. Her passionate relationship with Cyclops has been established, but I suppose she could be bi.

Bringing this back to the topic of Storm, I can easily imagine that when Claremont set up the Storm/Yukio relationship he might well have been trying to depict a same-sex relationship as much as was possible, given the limits he was constrained to. This was not explicitly established, and alternative readings--or non-readings, even--are possible. Yukio aside, I'd describe Storm as predominantly and clearly straight. She has entered into relationships with men by her own will, and the failure of these relationships is explicable in terms that do not need her to be closeted. (Forge, Wolverine, and Black Panther come to mind.)

[t hedge coke]

There's plausibility and there's plausibility.

Why did none of the telepathic lovers of Scott, or Warren, pick up on their lover's closetedness and act accordingly? It's not as if Jean, or Emma, or Betsy are incapable of acting in their own self-interest.

As far as Scott, Emma and Jean both regularly have commented on how repressed he is. But, you think either of them would blush or run because someone's repressing part of their sexuality?

There's a bit more space with Beast, but not that much more. He's established as having long-lasting, if on-and-off, relationhips with women, Trish Tilby and Abigail Brand being his most notable recent partners. In context, his statement that he was gay was pretty clearly a dig at an ex who hurt him badly, and there's also Emma's statement that she knows he's completely straight.

Emma didn't say that. She said she knew he'd never had a physical relationship with another man. And, that's all she says, other than that it's dangerous and he likes pranks and testing the edges.

That storyline very carefully doesn't confirm anything about Hank's sexual interests or attractions.

[RandyMcDonald]

As far as Scott, Emma and Jean both regularly have commented on how repressed he is. But, you think either of them would blush or run because someone's repressing part of their sexuality?

If their partner was gay, yes. Why would they develop, or keep going, an intimate relationship if they knew for a fact Cyclops was not into it? I think particularly of Emma, who we can be sure would have discovered this during her initial affair.

Emma didn't say that. She said she knew he'd never had a physical relationship with another man. And, that's all she says, other than that it's dangerous and he likes pranks and testing the edges.

iCXJwzF[1].jpg

Apologies for the poor quality of the scan. You're partly right, in that Emma does not specifically exclude the possibility of homosexual impulses in Beast. She frames his coming out in the context of his prank calling to superhero headquarters. "Always the practical joker, hmm?" Any danger lies in the possibility that the school, already being portrayed as a "boho experiment in mutant sociology", might lose its credibility with Beast's pretense. He goes on, in the portion of the page I cut off, to say that he was making a "statement" about identity.

That storyline very carefully doesn't confirm anything about Hank's sexual interests or attractions.

It does exclude any possibility of Beast having done anything gay, and it leaves us with the impression that Emma does not take it seriously because she knows Beast is not serious about the claim. She cares about it to the extent that an implausible coming-out might make the school lose credibility.

[forgotten_utopia]

Yeah why not.

[BroHomo]

There's plausibility and there's plausibility.

INteresting?

Why did none of the telepathic lovers of Scott, or Warren, pick up on their lover's closetedness and act accordingly? It's not as if Jean, or Emma, or Betsy are incapable of acting in their own self-interest.

I could see Psylocke not caring, or not thinkng about it being a big deal. ANd did you forget Emma pretty much LIVED in Bobbys head for a few weeks Why didnt it come up then?

There's a bit more space with Beast, but not that much more. He's established as having long-lasting, if on-and-off, relationhips with women, Trish Tilby and Abigail Brand being his most notable recent partners. In context, his statement that he was gay was pretty clearly a dig at an ex who hurt him badly, and there's also Emma's statement that she knows he's completely straight.

so in 60 years Beast had relationship with two women and that excludes him from being gay? I guess if Bobby had one more after Opal he would have been an unlikely candidate?

There's none of this with Bobby. There is only a series of relationships with women which keep going nowhere, and a series of behaviours reflective of being deeply in the closet. There has been fan speculation going back to the 1990s that he could be in the closet.

Opal....Kitty.... Oh Did Beast, Warren, or Cyclops retire to be married and seettle down? None of these relationships go anywhere. And just cause you cant keep a girlfriend you are gay? I dated a chick for 2 years and Im gay as hell. Exactly what sort of behaviors indicate you are in the closet? if the are soooo obvious why arent people outing each other every day? Bobby is a made up character you arent speculating on whether or not he was BORN gay. just if the writer MEANT to write a particular issue where Bobby is seen doing stereotypical gay things.

Of the four guys, he was pretty clearly the best candidate.

uh ANgel...

The only other plausible option for an outing would be Jean. Her passionate relationship with Cyclops has been established, but I suppose she could be bi

.ONce again Sexuality and Sex are two totally different things

If their partner was gay, yes. Why would they develop, or keep going, an intimate relationship if they knew for a fact Cyclops was not into it? I think particularly of Emma, who we can be sure would have discovered this during her initial affair.


It does exclude any possibility of Beast having done anything gay, and it leaves us with the impression that Emma does not take it seriously because she knows Beast is not serious about the claim. She cares about it to the extent that an implausible coming-out might make the school lose credibility.

1.) Maybe they didnt want the leader of the X-Men to be freaking out about his coming out and his repressed homosexuality? How would the masses KNOW it wasn't Plausible?

[WeaponX]

I just get tired of this lets rewrite everything about an existing character because new characters "can't" support this kind of character. It's just so laughably lazy. Especially when in the 80s you have Mystique who was basically in a lesbian relationship in all but name. Have a little faith in your audience. One of the biggest problem in modern comics is the lack of any serious attempts at new characters. People want new characters not lazy retreads.

[RandyMcDonald]

I could see Psylocke not caring, or not thinkng about it being a big deal.

There are many women who are not homophobes. Few of them would enter into a relationship with someone who was gay, especially one who was gay and closeted.

ANd did you forget Emma pretty much LIVED in Bobbys head for a few weeks Why didnt it come up then?

It didn't?

12715633_10106192305012933_7424442502110791775_n[1].jpg

so in 60 years Beast had relationship with two women and that excludes him from being gay? I guess if Bobby had one more after Opal he would have been an unlikely candidate?

Yes. If Bobby had developed and sustained relationships with other women, or at least had them end for explicable reasons, likely this would not have been possible.

Bobby is a made up character you arent speculating on whether or not he was BORN gay. just if the writer MEANT to write a particular issue where Bobby is seen doing stereotypical gay things.

Well, yes.

1.) Maybe they didnt want the leader of the X-Men to be freaking out about his coming out and his repressed homosexuality? How would the masses KNOW it wasn't Plausible?

That doesn't require them to enter into a sexual relationship with him. Why would Emma, in particular, opt for this?

[Confuzzled]

Yeah why not. She had a thing for Yukio for sure.

Though what I'd really like is Illyana's asexuality to be confirmed. It's a bit sad that the "+" part of LGBT+ is treated as near non-existent, not just in fiction but also in real life. Would be groundbreaking to have Magik come out as asexual in the same year as Jughead.

[BroHomo]

There are many women who are not homophobes. Few of them would enter into a relationship with someone who was gay, especially one who was gay and closeted.







That doesn't require them to enter into a sexual relationship with him. Why would Emma, in particular, opt for this?

It happens more than yo think. and Why would Emma opt for what exactly? The second in command of the X-men/mutant race?? Well Because she's Emma and not an idiot.

It didn't?

12715633_10106192305012933_7424442502110791775_n[1].jpg

I was around 12 when I got my hands on this issue. closeted, Living in coastal Alabama and still rolled my eyes at that joke. If immature associations based on the hetero-normative assumption that gay men are far more interested in "feminine" jobs/hobbies is your logic than I have no more to say

Yes. If Bobby had developed and sustained relationships with other women, or at least had them end for explicable reasons, likely this would not have been possible.

Wow dude, the logic here is flawless. apparently if youve dated more than 2 women you can't be gay!!!

[RandyMcDonald]

It happens more than yo think. and Why would Emma opt for what exactly? The second in command of the X-men/mutant race?? Well Because she's Emma and not an idiot.

That would be incompatible with, among other things, the active sexual relationship between Scott and Emma and Emma's apparently wholly uncomplicated love for Scott. If she had entered into a relationship with a deeply closeted man in the pursuit of power, she certainly didn't act like it.

I was around 12 when I got my hands on this issue. closeted, Living in coastal Alabama and still rolled my eyes at that joke. If immature associations based on the hetero-normative assumption that gay men are far more interested in "feminine" jobs/hobbies is your logic than I have no more to say

That actually isn't the page I showed. Please read it.

Wow dude, the logic here is flawless. apparently if youve dated more than 2 women you can't be gay!!!

If you choose to ignore how the relationships went, and the backstory around the characters involved, that's your prerogative. I just don't think you should get to contribute much to this exchange. What is the point in talking to someone who ignores what other people say?

[rutog98]

Making her LGBT would go against the culture of both her maternal and paternal side. Proportionally speaking, I would bet dollars to donuts that African Americans are much more conservative than White Americans. The only reason Black Americans don't vote republican/conservative is because of the existence of a strong racist vein in the republican party. While not all republicans are racist, there are enough of them in the party to affect the party platform in ways that drive potential Black voters away to the democratic party. Black Americans, by and large, do not support the gay agenda. As a matter of fact, Obama almost lost the 2012 electrion because he pushed this agenda. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB5ECWgHXgs. Many blacks were not going to vote in the 2012 election because Mitt Romney was and is a mormon (a religion that is historically very racist against blacks as well as other people of color...I can go on and on about this) and much of the republican platform does not speak to the black struggle in this country. As a matter of fact, much of that platform works against Blacks (I can type forever on this). On top of these facts, Obama was pushing the gay agenda which goes against African American culture and religion. The game changer in 2012 that turned out black voters to exercise their right to vote in record numbers and to support Obama was when the republicans tried to use voter restriction in an attempt to intimidate blacks from voting. On top of that they sought to shorten early voting days that blacks tended to use to make it harder for them to participate in the democratic process. This republican strategy awoke within the black community the old civil rights spirit and sent black voters to voting booths in droves as pastors preached from their pulpits "souls to the polls".

Speaking of her mother's people, the people of Kenya are also strongly against homosexuality. As a matter of fact, when Obama went there last summer to try and promote the gay agenda, they shut him down. They had public demonstrations against him, the president of Kenya, Kenyatta, straightened him out publically when he brought up the gay agenda during their public discourse, and the pastors of the country wrote an open letter to Obama with one stating that if Obama came there with" the gay talk" (their words, not mine), they shall tell him to "shut up and go home". They criticized him severely for not respecting their culture and religion in bringing this up. (see links below) Both the African American community (Storm's paternal side) and Kenyans (Storm's mother's side) are against this both culturally and religiously. Rather than trying to make Storm bisexual, I would rather they explore her cultural roots. I know that much of her fanbase have been clamoring for the exploration of her roots to happen for many years. There are so many other things to explore with Storm than to take a very controversal turn like this which many people will never accept.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...p-and-go-home/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rprOreiMwmg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bnkw7f5AscI
http://www.churchmilitant.com/news/a...mas-gay-agenda
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/was...ights-comments

There seems to be a push from a certain part of the fanbase to make Storm a bisexual lesbian (and to make most characters bisexual, it seems). With Storm being the most prominent black character in all of comicbook history, regardless of the company's name, and the only black character to attain the prominence she has (with T'challa being perhaps the only second place followed by a huge gap before you can bring up anyone else), I think this LGBT thing should not be applied to Storm (or Panther). Its very controversal and it would make the character less marketable in many ways as it would restrict the audiences she could potentially appeal to. To be black, female and LGBT would be trying to make her the ultimate minority and it would definitely hold her back in potential future endeavors like say a possible successful solo movie.

Storm has never been intimate with Yukio. To say otherwise is wishful thinking on the part of some people, to be honest. She has only been sexually affectionate with men and she has a strong track record with this (Arkon, Dr. Doom, Loki, Forge, T'challa, Khan, Wolverine (ugh!), Nightcrawler...) A bisexual Storm would have worked with an alternate reality version of the character and nobody would have complained about that (an example of this would have been if Marvel had introduced the Ultimate reality incarnation of the character as bisexual from the start).

I speak merely factually on this matter. I do not hate gays (or anyone, for that matter). To be honest, of everything in the Bible, the one thing I wish most that were not the case is homosexuality being categorized as a sin. However, much as I wish otherwise, it does not alter the facts in this matter. Gay people just want to be able to love and be loved just like anybody else. Its a tough pill to swallow, but its reality. God is real and many people will prioritize what He says above all else.

[RandyMcDonald]

Making her LGBT would go against the culture of both her maternal and paternal side.

And yet, there are non-heterosexual African-Americans and Africans notwithstanding this. For that matter, there are non-heterosexuals everywhere.

[rutog98]

And yet, there are non-heterosexual African-Americans and Africans notwithstanding this. For that matter, there are non-heterosexuals everywhere.

I agree with this, but it is a very small minority, not the majority by any stretch of the imagination and it is countercultural to these communities. We only have one Black character with Storm's stature. Lets not do this to her. If Marvel wants to make one of their premier female characters bi, there are plenty of white females they can choose from be it Sue Richards, Jean Grey, Ms. Marvel, etc. Don't make this move with the only Black character who is a true A-lister in all of comicdom. It will limit Storm's potential broad appeal and restrict potential opportunities for the character. I would love for Storm to get her own series of solo movies. That will never happen for a gay black female superhero.

Instead of taking the gay route with the character, Marvel should flesh out her ancestral roots and build up her mythos so that the material exists to create a movie franchise with her character. If they had done this already, there is no doubt in my mind that Storm would have had her own solo movie a long time ago. I know it was an idea that was being seriously considered at one point. I think the reason it hasn't yet come to fruition is because of the lack of her background being explored in canon.

T'challa is going to get his solo movie in about 2 years or so. Do you think he would be getting his solo movie if he were a gay black king of a mythical African country? No way! Fortunately for him, like Wolverine, Thor, and Hulk, he has had several solo series which provides a lot of material to build off of to make movies out of. Marvel needs to do the same for Storm and flesh her out outside of the X-Men mythos so she can get her movies, too.

[Conn Seanery]

Once again: Folks, be sure to keep your comments about what you think, no judgments about other people because of what they think. Keep it civil.