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  1. #31
    Moderator Nyssane's Avatar
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    The First Born is the Jason of Wonder Woman's rogues gallery.

  2. #32
    The Last Dragon Perseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    The First Born is the Jason of Wonder Woman's rogues gallery.
    That's just unfair, Jason is the Jason of Wonder Woman's rogues gallery.
    Zaldrīzes Buzdari Iksos Daor

  3. #33
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Mmmm. I'm thinking his back-story and motivation are the same as Darksied's, if Darksied's were made up on a bar napkin at 3 in the morning after a big night.
    Not to get too far off-topic, but, what the hell is Circe or Ares doing, besides wasting our time and being supervillains, no one outside this WW comic, sees fit to use in a story?

    If FB had been created in Superman, Green Lantern or JLA comics, he would have been used better and in more stories, than we've seen him in, by now.

    At worse, he's one more supernasty stigmatized, by his being created in a WW story.

    First Born is not a supervillain for high-minded sophisticates (and we've plenty of those aboard) and, for that reason, not the sort of villain, that our more verbose postors typically favor. There's much potential here for a simply, irredeemably bad and powerful villain, with a backstory and motivation normal humans can actually read and understand. Comparatively speaking, WW comic has far too few of those.

    Anyway, good thread, all around. You should all be proud of yourselves!
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 08-13-2022 at 04:59 PM.
    COMBINING THE BIGBADITUDE OF THANOS WITH CHEETAH'S FEROCITY, IS JANUS WONDER WOMAN'S GREATEST SUPERVILLAIN?...on WONDABUNGA!!! Look alive, Kangaliers!

  4. #34
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    The first born is gross
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

  5. #35
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    The First Born is the Jason of Wonder Woman's rogues gallery.

    I know Jason was kind of dull but that's just plain mean. I don't think I've ever seen such a dumpster-fire of a character like the First Born before or after him. He was all shock-value and let-downs at the same time.
    Currently(or soon to be) Reading: Alan Scott: Green Lantern, Batman/Superman: World's Finest, Fire & Ice: Welcome to Smallville, Green Arrow, Green Lantern, Jay Garrick: The Flash, Justice Society of America, Power Girl, Superman, Shazam, Titans, Wesley Dodds: Sandman, Wonder Woman, & World's Finest: Teen Titans.

  6. #36
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    I know Jason was kind of dull but that's just plain mean. I don't think I've ever seen such a dumpster-fire of a character like the First Born before or after him. He was all shock-value and let-downs at the same time.
    Nah, conceptually there's some interesting stuff with First Born.

    Jason was bad on both a conceptual and execution level.

  7. #37
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Nah, conceptually there's some interesting stuff with First Born.

    Jason was bad on both a conceptual and execution level.

    What was conceptually interesting about the First Born? The hyena-sex? The canibalism? The burnt-bacon appearance?
    Currently(or soon to be) Reading: Alan Scott: Green Lantern, Batman/Superman: World's Finest, Fire & Ice: Welcome to Smallville, Green Arrow, Green Lantern, Jay Garrick: The Flash, Justice Society of America, Power Girl, Superman, Shazam, Titans, Wesley Dodds: Sandman, Wonder Woman, & World's Finest: Teen Titans.

  8. #38
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterwitcher88 View Post
    That's just unfair, Jason is the Jason of Wonder Woman's rogues gallery.
    Aye. Seconded.

  9. #39
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I have never understood why First Born and Heracles are compared. They have nothing in common besides being sons of Zeus.
    My POV on that is he’s the ultra strong and resilient son of Hera and Zeus. In a basic sense, he’s a super strong and powerful antithesis of Diana within her mythology. Essentially how sometimes Heracles or Hercules was portrayed in the past or referenced to Diana being “stronger than Hercules.” He’s powerful and thematically carried out the classic Greek mythology of the son overpowering the father a la Zeus and Cronus.

    That classic theme *could* be fun to play around with in new ways contemporarily.

    (I’m also a proponent of of bringing back Heracles as an Amazon opponent.)

  10. #40
    Astonishing Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    First Born is back! (At least in thread form.)

    I’ll respond, because I don’t think I responded to it many moons ago and he’s been on my list of characters to assess for my Wonder Woman Series Bible Thingee.

    First Born worked out for the Azz run. IIRC at the time, I thought he was a good stand-in for Heracles, the sometimes adversary of Diana and the Amazons depending on the Wonder era that you're thinking about. He was also the justification of having God-Mode Diana. Way back when, I thought I read that he was based on a mythical character, but I can’t find anything about it now. So, I might be misremembering unless anyone else can confirm it.

    He definitely works for that story and I think he could be used again as an enemy of the Olympians and the rest of his family members (e.g. Diana.) The Father, and potential Oedipus, Complex(es) he exhibits is a classic narrative that’s timeless. Tie that with extreme hubris and you can pull some drama out of the situation. He’s exhibits aspects of Orion of the New Gods within him.

    When I think about him, I think about who on Olympus might empathize with him, who might take advantage of him, who he might form alliances with and if he’s capable of anything other than fury and revenge. If they do any exploration of the gods in the cosmic sense of them, I can see him being a player.

    All in all, I think there’s something within the character that can make him an interesting player from time to time in the Wonder world.
    There was something genuinely menacing about him. A lot of Wonder Woman villains don't share that trait.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    What was conceptually interesting about the First Born? The hyena-sex? The canibalism? The burnt-bacon appearance?
    Yes, yes and yes. It was also cool the way he evolved physically to eventually fit the prophesy's description of him.

  11. #41
    Fantastic Member Natamaxxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    What was conceptually interesting about the First Born? The hyena-sex? The canibalism? The burnt-bacon appearance?
    All of that is way more interesting than yet another ill conceived twin for Diana that was somehow better at everything than she was. I’ll take 10 First Borns over one Jason any day.

  12. #42
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    What was conceptually interesting about the First Born? The hyena-sex? The canibalism? The burnt-bacon appearance?
    I actually liked the final burnt appearance.

    First Born as a prophesized evil chosen one who fits into the Greek cycle of a child killing their parent I find to be an interesting villain, sort of a parody/deconstruction of Kratos from the GoW games. I didn't care for the execution myself but I'd be interested to see someone revisit it.

    Jason is a soap opera cliche.

  13. #43
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    I actually liked the final burnt appearance.

    First Born as a prophesized evil chosen one who fits into the Greek cycle of a child killing their parent I find to be an interesting villain, sort of a parody/deconstruction of Kratos from the GoW games. I didn't care for the execution myself but I'd be interested to see someone revisit it.

    Jason is a soap opera cliche.

    Thanks for sharing. I just found those bits to be a bit too borrowed from Greek myth. I know that Diana has roots in Greek mythology but the First Born seemed too generic to me. Maybe another writer can make him interesting to me some day.
    Currently(or soon to be) Reading: Alan Scott: Green Lantern, Batman/Superman: World's Finest, Fire & Ice: Welcome to Smallville, Green Arrow, Green Lantern, Jay Garrick: The Flash, Justice Society of America, Power Girl, Superman, Shazam, Titans, Wesley Dodds: Sandman, Wonder Woman, & World's Finest: Teen Titans.

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