VILLAINS! Your Thoughts On: First Born

[SteveGus]

That's my issue with him too as well. He feels...generic (for lack of better words).

Given the New 52 changes to Doomsday, he's even more obviously a Doomsday clone.

[SiegePerilous02]

I just feel the need to come in to First Born's defense right here.

Saying that he hates everything because "daddy didn't love him," is grossly oversimplifying his backstory. He isn't the way he is because Zeus never hugged him. He is the way he was brought up in a brutal, savage fashion that nurtured his hateful and destructive nature.

I agree with pretty much everything else you said, but I've just seen several people try to boil First Born's motivations down to "daddy issues." Like First Born just didn't get hugged enough. This just isn't the case. He didn't get hugged AT ALL. He has literally never known a moment's kindness in his entire life. He was raised by beasts. Of course he isn't going to develop any sense of compassion or mercy. All he knows is the rage in his heart and his desire to inflict his pain on the entire world.

That's a little more complex than "Waaah! Daddy didn't spend time with me!"

Perhaps I was a little harsh, his "daddy issues" are a great deal more extreme than most. I also think he enriches Hera's character arc a great deal. However, I still maintain that he isn't a compelling enough character on his own. I think he would have benefited from being one of a group of Big Bads, maybe in service to Cassandra or Apollo. He's carrying the entire arc by himself, and he just isn't charismatic enough to me to make it worth it.

[Vanguard-01]

Perhaps I was a little harsh, his "daddy issues" are a great deal more extreme than most. I also think he enriches Hera's character arc a great deal. However, I still maintain that he isn't a compelling enough character on his own. I think he would have benefited from being one of a group of Big Bads, maybe in service to Cassandra or Apollo. He's carrying the entire arc by himself, and he just isn't charismatic enough to me to make it worth it.

Yes, I totally agree with you on these points.

He's not a very compelling character on his own, and as I said in my first post, I highly doubt he has the staying power to remain a viable Wonder Woman villain after this arc is over.

I also agree that Apollo and Cassandra are much more interesting and nuanced villains and they (especially Cassandra) really deserved more time in the spotlight.

I mostly just felt the need to give credit where credit is due: just saying "daddy issues" does belittle his motivations a bit too much, is all I was saying.

[brettc1]

He's a k-mart version of Mongul.

[Dr. Hurt]

What i really like about Superman, Batman, Spiderman and the Flash is that they have this very specific supporting cast and rogues gallery that sticks around them no matter what. Batman's Arkham videogames are about him going through his entire rogues gallery in one night some forced plot. But it's fun because you enter the Mr.Freeze building and it's frozen, you go to the Ivy building and you find vines, etc.

WW needs to have this halo of characters around her so i do hope that the FB sticks around for that one in a decade "oh crap, the world is ending" story, even if he ends up like a gimmick the way Doomsday has become. It establishes a certain familiar feel and the character might perhaps jump to other books like how Doomsday often features in JL or that Supergirl story that an army of them invaded Themiscyra.

They just need to stop ignoring WW's original villains (update them if they suck, just use them) and to keep the new ones around, not write them off after their story is done, like Devastation for example.

[Mel Dyer]

Best Wonder Woman villain ever.

They're natural enemies! For any girl in a large family, her first and greatest antagonist is the first-born son, ..until she gets a little sister. I think the symbolism ALONE makes him the greatest Wonder Woman villain ever created...

And find one with a better backstory and motivation. Can't...

I liked him better with his dragon armor and weapons, though, and want to see him fully restored. Hate the hamburger look.

[brettc1]

They're natural enemies! For any girl in a large family, her first and greatest antagonist is the first-born son, ..until she gets a little sister. I think the symbolism ALONE makes him the greatest Wonder Woman villain ever created...

And find one with a better backstory and motivation. Can't...

Mmmm. I'm thinking his back-story and motivation are the same as Darksied's, if Darksied's were made up on a bar napkin at 3 in the morning after a big night.

[Redwing]

Mmmm. I'm thinking his back-story and motivation are the same as Darksied's, if Darksied's were made up on a bar napkin at 3 in the morning after a big night.

Mongol, Darkseid, Thanos. Erik Killmonger, yeah there are some villains with similar motivations to that of First Born, so what? He wants to destroy his family of gods and all else...he's a harbinger of the end and can be used anytime again in the future just like those other villains are. why shouldn't WW have a villain specifically her own and rooted in the mythology she represents that is similar to those characters?

I'll never understand people having an issue with a character like that while rooting for a chick that grows into a giant and a stereotypical were-woman psycho chick that WW should never have a problem with. Oh yes, because of nostalgia. First Born is one of the few WW villains that actually feels like he is and would be a threat.

[Dr. Hurt]

Mmmm. I'm thinking his back-story and motivation are the same as Darksied's, if Darksied's were made up on a bar napkin at 3 in the morning after a big night.

But Darkseid wants to rule the universe, the FB wants to destroy it.

[Redwing]

But Darkseid wants to rule the universe, the FB wants to destroy it.

FIRST BORN:
"You have no idea what war I bring. It's un-winnable. ALL will lose, including ME."

ORION:
"That's insane"!

FIRST BORN:
"NO. That's who I am."

He said what he was and his intent right there. Dr. Hurt is right...he doesn't want to really rule anything, he wants to bring it all down. In the end, even himself. He also from what he's said seems to be a god of hatred.

FIRST BORN:
"I finally understand, Father! I am nothing!"

Meaning he is the embodiment of nothing, anti-anything, all creation.

Outside of Circe, I can't see any WW villain being this much of a threat, and the comparisons and viewpoints on the character don't seem to really offer any actual comprehension of what's been shown about him.

[Mel Dyer]

WW has been sucky or high-mediocre, for so LONG, ..I don't think it's fair to condemn the inclusion of more traditional supervillains, like First Born, Queen Clea or Janus, because this comic is so far behind the other DC flagship titles. Give us a chance to knock around a Vartox, Terrax or an Absorbing Man, to be developed into something better.

[Gaius]

why did you revive an eight years dead thread?

[WonderScott]

First Born is back! (At least in thread form.)

I’ll respond, because I don’t think I responded to it many moons ago and he’s been on my list of characters to assess for my Wonder Woman Series Bible Thingee.

First Born worked out for the Azz run. IIRC at the time, I thought he was a good stand-in for Heracles, the sometimes adversary of Diana and the Amazons depending on the Wonder era that you're thinking about. He was also the justification of having God-Mode Diana. Way back when, I thought I read that he was based on a mythical character, but I can’t find anything about it now. So, I might be misremembering unless anyone else can confirm it.

He definitely works for that story and I think he could be used again as an enemy of the Olympians and the rest of his family members (e.g. Diana.) The Father, and potential Oedipus, Complex(es) he exhibits is a classic narrative that’s timeless. Tie that with extreme hubris and you can pull some drama out of the situation. He’s exhibits aspects of Orion of the New Gods within him.

When I think about him, I think about who on Olympus might empathize with him, who might take advantage of him, who he might form alliances with and if he’s capable of anything other than fury and revenge. If they do any exploration of the gods in the cosmic sense of them, I can see him being a player.

All in all, I think there’s something within the character that can make him an interesting player from time to time in the Wonder world.

[PopQuezy]

First Born is back! (At least in thread form.)

I’ll respond, because I don’t think I responded to it many moons ago and his been on my list of characters to assess for my Wonder Woman Series Bible Thingee.

First Born worked out for the Azz run. IIRC at the time, I thought he was a good stand-in for Heracles, the sometimes adversary of Diana and the Amazons depending on the Wonder era that you're thinking about. He was also the justification of having God-Mode Diana. Way back when, I thought I read that he was based on a mythical character, but I can’t find anything about it now. So, I might be misremembering unless anyone else can confirm it.

He definitely works for that story and I think he could be used again as an enemy of the Olympians and the rest of his family members (e.g. Diana.) The Father, and potential Oedipus, Complex(es) he exhibits is a classic narrative that’s timeless. Tie that with extreme hubris and you can pull some drama out of the situation. He’s exhibits aspects of Orion of the New Gods within him.

When I think about him, I think about who on Olympus might empathize with him, who might take advantage of him, who he might form alliances with and if he’s capable of anything other than fury and revenge. If the do any exploration of the gods in the cosmic sense of them, I can see him being a player.

All in all, I think there’s something within the character that can make him an interesting player from time to time in the Wonder world.

During Robinson's Children of the Gods arc, I was hoping it would end with Wonder Woman and First Born teaming up to defeat Grail.

[Agent Z]

I have never understood why First Born and Heracles are compared. They have nothing in common besides being sons of Zeus.