Is the current (new 52-present) Wonder Woman worth reading ?

[Dr. Poison]

I wouldn't have written her that way. Finch may have--sort of. Of course, Donna didn't just randomly suddenly decide to change; clearly, she didn't have memories of a prior life, and being unable to remember fighting alongside and for men might have made her easier to deceive. I'd like to think, though, that even without specific memories of her prior life, she nevertheless would have had a conscience telling her that even if everything Derinoe said was true, she shouldn't go massacre the Amazons' brothers. I'f like like to think she'd have such a conscience, in fact, even if she didn't have a prior life. But what I'd like to think, or what makes sense to me, isn't necessarily what the book shows me.

Also, of course, Finch may not have known Donna would later be shown to have had a life as Wonder Girl.

By the way, isn't Titans Hunt (which I haven't been paying attention to) a Convergence spinoff? If so, isn't it likely that the Titans' strange memories are a result of the Convergence? Maybe they've somehow absorbed memories from their counterparts from another earth?

As of the latest issue, it's seeming more and more like the Titans were made to forget their encounter with Mr. Twister, not that they are remembering another earth's version of their history.

[Dr. Poison]

Why not?

Don't people come out of the Lazarus Pit stark, raving mad?

The fact is, Donna didn't return via a Lazarus Pit. If anyone drove Donna mad, it was Hecate so I still think the death of the Amazons is on her, not Donna.

[Silvanus]

As of the latest issue, it's seeming more and more like the Titans were made to forget their encounter with Mr. Twister, not that they are remembering another earth's version of their history.

OK. Good to know. But, did all the other Titans slaughter innocents after having their minds messed with to destroy their memories? Again, someone might have given her amnesia, but that wouldn't mean they also gave her psychopathy.

[numberthirty]

OK. Good to know. But, did all the other Titans slaughter innocents after having their minds messed with to destroy their memories? Again, someone might have given her amnesia, but that wouldn't mean they also gave her psychopathy.

Exactly.

If that was what happened, we have nothing to indicate it.

If you suddenly recall something? That might indicate amnesia. If you just popped out of a pit that drives folks nuts? You may have recently died.

What did we see that pointed to anything like Hectate driving Donna mad? Did Donna say anything afterwards to indicate that?

[Dr. Poison]

OK. Good to know. But, did all the other Titans slaughter innocents after having their minds messed with to destroy their memories? Again, someone might have given her amnesia, but that wouldn't mean they also gave her psychopathy.

No, none of the other Titans slaughtered innocents but then again, none of the other Titans have been brought back from the dead by an evil sorceress.

[Dr. Poison]

Exactly.

If that was what happened, we have nothing to indicate it.

If you suddenly recall something? That might indicate amnesia. If you just popped out of a pit that drives folks nuts? You may have recently died.

What did we see that pointed to anything like Hectate driving Donna mad? Did Donna say anything afterwards to indicate that?

Are you suggesting that Hecate brought back Donna to spread peace and love around the world?

[numberthirty]

One other obvious hitch in the "brought Donna back" theory -

Donna is practically Clayface now. That being the case, how am I supposed to by that it's "Old" Donna? Even if it is, how much of her?

That's before you even weigh out that it's not impossible to put ideas or false memories into a creation's head.

[numberthirty]

Are you suggesting that Hecate brought back Donna to spread peace and love around the world?

Actually, I'm not suggesting "brought back" is even what happened.

I'm nowhere near sold on that.

[Silvanus]

Are you suggesting that Hecate brought back Donna to spread peace and love around the world?

We know from the book that she didn't; she brought Donna onto the scene [whether by bring her back or creating her "from scratch," we don't know from the Wonder Woman book] at Derinoe's request to unseat Diana as queen and get rid of the male Amazons. We also know from the book that Donna recalls being deceived by Derinoe into believing that terrible actions were justified. What we don't know of the book--what we don't get a bit of evidence for--is the idea of Hecate "driving her mad," if that means depriving her of free will. Amnesia and deception are not, by themselves, mind control.

Incidentally, I just read the latest Titans Hunt issue. Mr. Twister says that the Teen Titans chose to forget him, but also that "memory sometimes lodges in the strangest places." Strange places like the minds of other-earth counterparts, perhaps?

[Dr. Poison]

We know from the book that she didn't; she brought Donna onto the scene [whether by bring her back or creating her "from scratch," we don't know from the Wonder Woman book] at Derinoe's request to unseat Diana as queen and get rid of the male Amazons. We also know from the book that Donna recalls being deceived by Derinoe into believing that terrible actions were justified. What we don't know of the book--what we don't get a bit of evidence for--is the idea of Hecate "driving her mad," if that means depriving her of free will. Amnesia and deception are not, by themselves, mind control.

Incidentally, I just read the latest Titans Hunt issue. Mr. Twister says that the Teen Titans chose to forget him, but also that "memory sometimes lodges in the strangest places." Strange places like the minds of other-earth counterparts, perhaps?

Yes. I re-read my copy as well. Lilith is actually the one who used her powers to help the Titans forget Mr. Twister so that his threat would be diminished. I don't think that they're remembering an alternate earth version of the themselves due to the roster included in the book otherwise someone would be asking where red-headed Wally West/Kid Flash is by now. Plus Robin is wearing his New 52 costume in the flashbacks.

[Silvanus]

Yes. I re-read my copy as well. Lilith is actually the one who used her powers to help the Titans forget Mr. Twister so that his threat would be diminished. I don't think that they're remembering an alternate earth version of the themselves due to the roster included in the book otherwise someone would be asking where red-headed Wally West/Kid Flash is by now. Plus Robin is wearing his New 52 costume in the flashbacks.

Seems like it will be a mess either way, whether it shoehorns the Teen Titans into New 52 continuity or imports memories from an alternate earth that doesn't quite match any we've seen before. The latter would seem less disruptive of the present continuity. It may not matter vey mch gong forward, depending on how much "Rebirth" canges things. IN any case, I don't think it sheds any light on whether Donna was mind-controlled or deceived in Finch's book. All the evidence in that book points to deception, not mind control.

[Darius]

So then how do you explain the Titans(including Donna) having memories of her being called Wonder Girl, having similar powers to Diana, bracelets, and a magic lasso? Just because Titans Hunt debuted after Donna Troy's first appearance in the New 52 that doesn't mean that Finch and Abnett didn't plan this out ahead of time.

I think the other posters (Silvanus, Carabas and numberthirty) have hit all the salient points

[brettc1]

Never been a WW reader but love Azzarello and am somehow intrigued .

Looking at just the first page of the thread, I am seeing a lot of "Yeah, Azzarello is AWESOME!" With the caveat "But then it's awful!"

Which got me wondering, just what does the question mean?

Does it mean the book? I can see some value in the quality of Azzarello's writing. And buying it in trade is certainly a better financial option than the month to month progression.

Or are we talking about the character on the whole?

Across the new52,WW's presentation has been a mish mash to say the least. Pre Flashpoint there was some ambiguity about her power levels but her character generally remained solid with just a few hiccups.

But if those years were marked by hiccups, the last half decade has been a case of severe stomach cramps with the occasional bout of dry retching.

From the Justice League "I'm here to FIGHT!"...

...To being Superman's 'plus one'...

...to "I am the God Of War and the Avenger of Vegetative Injustice!"...

...It's just been a generally horrible time for me and a fair few others.

I would say the New 52 Wonder Woman herself I'd like eating one of those poisonous Japanese puffer fish. PARTS of the last five years merit some attention, if prepared with extreme care by experts. But on the whole you are getting served up quite a lot of potentially toxic fare presented by the eighteen year old who just started at the sushi diner last week.

[Silvanus]

Looking at just the first page of the thread, I am seeing a lot of "Yeah, Azzarello is AWESOME!" With the caveat "But then it's awful!"

Which got me wondering, just what does the question mean?

Since the OP says he or she hasn't previously followed Wonder Woman but "love Azzarello and [is] somehow intrigued," I figured the question was mainly about whether the book Azzarello worked on is worth reading. I agree with you that not everything Wonder Woman appeared in after Flashpoint is equally worth reading.

[gwhh]

I've enjoy that series. And WW & Sm series a lot.