Is the current (new 52-present) Wonder Woman worth reading ?

[Carabas]

About 60K bought the first issue. Less than half of those people stuck around to follow Azz to the finish line. Personally, I'd say based on that it's not worth the risk unless they are in a dollar bin somewhere.

You show some ignorance with regards to how comicbook shops work.

For starters, nobobody has any kind of numbers on how many issues are actually sold to individual readers of any book.
All we know is that retailers ordered 60K, eh, no, 76K of the first issue.
And roughly the same number got ordered of the second issue (which is abnormal in itself because usually the numbers drop about 50% for second issues, no matter what the book is or who is on it).
Early New 52 books being returnable may have had something to do with it.

Of course, all these orders happened 3 months before the first issue even came out. This is how it always is. Usually #4 is the first issue that the retailer can do more about than guess how many he'll be able to sell, which is where you usually see books to start levelling off. The Finches, 11 issues in, are still in wild freefall.

Anyway, you say less than 50% stuck around to read Azz's 36 issues? About 50% has stuck around to read even the first 10 issues of the Finch's run.

[Silvanus]

How this relates to comics...You are more likely to "like" something that 60K bought as opposed to only 30K. It's a percentage thing.

Perhaps, if you tend to like what other people like. But if Azzarello fans such as the OP liked, for example, Rocketman or even 100 Bullets, there's a decent chance that such fans often like comics that sell 30k rather than 60k. (Some of Azz's comics are more niche-market, Vertigo-type books, for which 30k might not be considered so bad--especially since they're likely to do better when collected in trades.) I don't mean to suggest that such a reader should just automatically seek out all the worst-selling comics , but I do think a decision tree like Darius's will probably help more than looking at sales charts.

By the way, I see that you say Azzarello's sales ranged in the low thirties. How many of his 36 issues sold below the mid 30's? Was it the majority? And is "losing half the audience" uncommon, or did it happen to most of the comics that started around the same time (if they were successful enough to last long enough to even make the comparison)?

[Outside_85]

How this relates to comics...You are more likely to "like" something that 60K bought as opposed to only 30K. It's a percentage thing.

Thats not true, it's just you share taste or interest with that many other people. Otherwise we'd all be enslaved to whatever garbage is being pumped out the radio.

Is WW worth Reading?

About 60K bought the first issue. Less than half of those people stuck around to follow Azz to the finish line. Personally, I'd say based on that it's not worth the risk unless they are in a dollar bin somewhere.

Over the course of nearly 40 issues and more than 3 years, I'd say that's pretty good that a story teller can keep people interested for that long. Plus you have to consider the initial 60k also counts in the mildly curious and the old collections that think that shiny first issue will be worth thousands of dollars when they reach 80.

And as a measure of success you might consider that DC didn't do what they often do when they think there is a problem and force Azzarello to write in any of the junk going on in other books, like dating Superman, or one of those stupid events.

[Darius]

Perhaps, if you tend to like what other people like. But if Azzarello fans such as the OP liked, for example, Rocketman or even 100 Bullets, there's a decent chance that such fans often like comics that sell 30k rather than 60k. (Some of Azz's comics are more niche-market, Vertigo-type books, for which 30k might not be considered so bad--especially since they're likely to do better when collected in trades.) I don't mean to suggest that such a reader should just automatically seek out all the worst-selling comics , but I do think a decision tree like Darius's will probably help more than looking at sales charts.

By the way, I see that you say Azzarello's sales ranged in the low thirties. How many of his 36 issues sold below the mid 30's? Was it the majority? And is "losing half the audience" uncommon, or did it happen to most of the comics that started around the same time (if they were successful enough to last long enough to even make the comparison)?

Agreed ... to be honest I'm not a huge fan of Azzarello's other work, but I enjoyed his WW because I enjoy Greek myth, strong female leads and stories that build on themselves ... I can't say that his sales figures ever entered my decision making process. But I would also point out that a much better metric to look at for sales isn't raw sales figures, but rather % decline issue over issue. Azzarello saw a rather steady 1.5%-2.5% decline for most of his run, this is pretty typical as a title matures. Finch on the other hand has seen fairly significant issue over issue declines of 6-10% meaning they are bleeding readers at a significantly faster pace than Azzarello did.

[Dr. Poison]

You show some ignorance with regards to how comicbook shops work.

For starters, nobobody has any kind of numbers on how many issues are actually sold to individual readers of any book.
All we know is that retailers ordered 60K, eh, no, 76K of the first issue.
And roughly the same number got ordered of the second issue (which is abnormal in itself because usually the numbers drop about 50% for second issues, no matter what the book is or who is on it).
Early New 52 books being returnable may have had something to do with it.

Of course, all these orders happened 3 months before the first issue even came out. This is how it always is. Usually #4 is the first issue that the retailer can do more about than guess how many he'll be able to sell, which is where you usually see books to start levelling off. The Finches, 11 issues in, are still in wild freefall.

Anyway, you say less than 50% stuck around to read Azz's 36 issues? About 50% has stuck around to read even the first 10 issues of the Finch's run.

The Finches' run is in wild freefall? They just went up from 32K to 35K with the last 2 issues. That's just over a 10% increase.

[Dr. Poison]

Thats not true, it's just you share taste or interest with that many other people. Otherwise we'd all be enslaved to whatever garbage is being pumped out the radio.



Over the course of nearly 40 issues and more than 3 years, I'd say that's pretty good that a story teller can keep people interested for that long. Plus you have to consider the initial 60k also counts in the mildly curious and the old collections that think that shiny first issue will be worth thousands of dollars when they reach 80.

And as a measure of success you might consider that DC didn't do what they often do when they think there is a problem and force Azzarello to write in any of the junk going on in other books, like dating Superman, or one of those stupid events.

How are those things a measure of success when there are a good number of fans who don't care for the Superman/Wonder Woman romance and/or refuse to buy event-related tie-ins. Both are double-edged swords.

[Outside_85]

How are those things a measure of success when there are a good number of fans who don't care for the Superman/Wonder Woman romance and/or refuse to buy event-related tie-ins. Both are double-edged swords.

It's a measure of success because DC often forces things like this into books they either see as failing or as problematic. Take TT for instance, Will was doing ok with what he was doing, nothing exceptional, but nothing everyone hated either, it was decent. But either the numbers weren't with him in sales or DC didn't like where it was going, so they rammed him with the job of once again sorting out Superboy, because they still haven't found out why the pre-FP version was good and still think the New-52 could be that character. And we know it wasn't Will's choice because someone else (think it was Tom King) wrote the annual that crowbared Superboy back into the book. Other examples are all those runs under the New 52 banner thats either had their creators changed suddenly (Green Arrow), abrupt changes in stories from where they were going (TT, Catwoman... Pandora, Demonites) and ofc editoral mandates that creators complain about after they are done (Batwoman, Static).

None of that happened with Azzarello's run. So even if some readers didn't like it or where it was going, atleast Azzarello had the complete faith and support of his employers.

[Ropeburn]

Agreed ... to be honest I'm not a huge fan of Azzarello's other work, but I enjoyed his WW because I enjoy Greek myth, strong female leads and stories that build on themselves ... I can't say that his sales figures ever entered my decision making process. But I would also point out that a much better metric to look at for sales isn't raw sales figures, but rather % decline issue over issue. Azzarello saw a rather steady 1.5%-2.5% decline for most of his run, this is pretty typical as a title matures. Finch on the other hand has seen fairly significant issue over issue declines of 6-10% meaning they are bleeding readers at a significantly faster pace than Azzarello did.

If Azz was still writing WW, he would be selling in the High 20K range because of his slow decline as you say. I should say at best Azz would be selling in the high 20K range. Finch is selling better than that. Even mired in Azz Lore, his sales aren't doing so bad. That says something.

None of that happened with Azzarello's run. So even if some readers didn't like it or where it was going, atleast Azzarello had the complete faith and support of his employers.

And that got DC a very Low Selling Title! Kudos to DC for having faith in something that disgusted some readers and had a sect of WW fans that couldn't fill a football stadium.

[Darius]

If Azz was still writing WW, he would be selling in the High 20K range because of his slow decline as you say. I should say at best Azz would be selling in the high 20K range. Finch is selling better than that. Even mired in Azz Lore, his sales aren't doing so bad. That says something.

Finch's numbers will look to be sunk into the mid-teens after 35 issues of the kinds of decline she has seen thus far. Azzarello at the same point in his run was still selling in the high 40s and didn't have the benefit of variant covers until much later in his run.

We're well and truly off topic now, but if you want to continue the conversation we should head over to the sales thread.

[Carabas]

The Finches' run is in wild freefall? They just went up from 32K to 35K with the last 2 issues. That's just over a 10% increase.

The bigger picture tells a tale that is a bit more nuanced.

11/2014: Wonder Woman #36 -- 58,965 (+ 63.9%)
12/2014: Wonder Woman #37 -- 43,066 (- 27.0%)
01/2015: Wonder Woman #38 -- 39,669 (- 7.9%)
02/2015: Wonder Woman #39 -- 42,634 (+ 7.5%)
04/2015: Wonder Woman #40 -- 45,172 (+ 6.0%)
06/2015: Wonder Woman #41 -- 45,284 (+ 0.2%)
07/2015: Wonder Woman #42 -- 36,668 (- 19.0%)
08/2015: Wonder Woman #43 -- 39,646 (+ 8.1%)
09/2015: Wonder Woman #44 -- 36,151 (- 8.8%)
10/2015: Wonder Woman #45 -- 33,885 (- 6.1%)
11/2015: Wonder Woman #46 -- 34,042 (+ 0.6%)
12/2015: Wonder Woman #47 -- 40,123 (+ 16.5%)
01/2016: Wonder Woman #48 -- 32,687 (- 18.5%)
02/2016: Wonder Woman #49 -- 35,398 (+8.3%)

It's skipping up and down, depending on however many covers it has in any given month (5 for #47, 2 for #48, 3 for #49), but overall is it slinking rapidly. Of course it is the big 50 this month, so that'll distort things more than a bit.

[Outside_85]

And that got DC a very Low Selling Title! Kudos to DC for having faith in something that disgusted some readers and had a sect of WW fans that couldn't fill a football stadium.

And gratz for basically describing the size of the audience of nearly every book DC is putting out that is not Batman. Also, it's not low, it's still in the top 100 which is more than can be said for most of what the independent labels put out. Also those figures you have don't count in digital sales. So whats your argument again?

[Dr. Poison]

None of that happened with Azzarello's run. So even if some readers didn't like it or where it was going, atleast Azzarello had the complete faith and support of his employers.

Given that he had dinner with Didio and managed to talk him out of the previous plan for the New 52 Wonder Woman, that doesn't surprise me one bit.

[Ropeburn]

And gratz for basically describing the size of the audience of nearly every book DC is putting out that is not Batman. Also, it's not low, it's still in the top 100 which is more than can be said for most of what the independent labels put out. Also those figures you have don't count in digital sales. So whats your argument again?

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomi...4/2014-01.html

Green Lantern is now a Batman book?

Digital Sales are guessed at increasing a book's sale by 10% - and that's being generous. That's not gonna help Azz's critically acclaimed title...at all.

[napolid]

I'd say this threads about done.

[Outside_85]

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomi...4/2014-01.html

Green Lantern is now a Batman book?

Digital Sales are guessed at increasing a book's sale by 10% - and that's being generous. That's not gonna help Azz's critically acclaimed title...at all.

Calendar read 2014 last I checked.

Generous? More like conservative pessimistic.
The numbers you (and Carabas) have posted, are the sales from Diamond to US stores only. It doesn't take in the sales to international or the digital market.

And if the Diamond numbers is all that matters to you, perhaps you should rmemeber just how low Wonder Woman was for a long time before Flashpoint arrived, when the book was struggling to reach 30k readers.