The X-Men Don't Kill, Right?

[Ricochet Rita]

Unless you happen to be this guy...

Or this one...

Still, though, mutants carrying guns and swords? Why not tell them to stop using them? Don't carry that **** into battle in the first place...

I would be totally OK with it. Especially with guns --firearms are not defensive arms: they're designed to kill and that's all.

[Carabas]

I'm pretty sure Xavier had a decent idea what Logan was. At any rate, what about all the people they've recruited since? Don't sign up Deadpool and then get upset when he blows some bloke's head off...

And according to the comics that existed at the time, it wasn't a mass-murdering psychpath.

In Legacy, I remember that Xavier wanted Wolverine on the team because he needed a weapon...

Rationalisations made decades after the fact have no bearing on what Len Wein had in mind in 1975 when he wrote that Giant-Size X-Men.

[Darth Phoenix]

Yep, and Ororo is being a massive hypocrite there, considering she's killed before. Anyone remember Uncanny #325? She tore out Marrow's heart with her bare hands.

Sure, Marrow got better later (I seem to recalle they retconned it so that Marrow had a second heart - but Storm didn't know that when she did it), but it was obvious given the dialogue that Storm had every intention to kill, and showed no regret over the act.

And it's funny how Ororo is going loco on Wolverine killing someone as X-Force, when over the years he's killed hundreds of people in the comics prior to that. His rampage through the Hellfire Club in Dark Phoenix was a good ol' murderfest. He decapitated Sabretooth (and prior to that, stuck a claw through his brain prior to AoA). He killed Magneto/Xorn in New X-Men #150 (in fact, I've lost count of the times he's tried to kill Magneto, only for him to come back later).

Not to mention that he was specifically placed on the Avengers because Cap wanted someone who was willing to cross the line.

Didn't she kill the External Candra as well?

[ExodusCloak]

because he believes that Wolverine can be tamed. Professor X gives people chances to change, to become better individuals and to help him realize his dreams for peaceful coexistence between mutants and humans

That's probably the best answer so far. IMO, anyway. Still, though, mutants carrying guns and swords? Why not tell them to stop using them? Don't carry that **** into battle in the first place...

Nope read X-Men Legacy - Original Sin. If I'm remembering correctly Wolverine was originally planted to kill Charles Xavier. Charles knew this recruited him anyway, destroyed his mind to "break the conditioning" hence Wolverine not knowing about his past, kept him close to keep an eye on him and to used him as his own weapon to kill.

In Legacy, I remember that Xavier wanted Wolverine on the team because he needed a weapon...

Exactly.

Rationalisations made decades after the fact have no bearing on what Len Wein had in mind in 1975 when he wrote that Giant-Size X-Men.

He was a actually a loose canon and claws happy when he appeared. He was just kept in check by Cyclops & Xavier and eventually begrudgingly listened Storm once she found her voice. Although he did actually kill those guards in the Savage Land during one of those Garrok issues(in front of Storm no less) . Thought it was a bit harsh myself.

[Carabas]

He was a actually a loose canon and claws happy when he appeared. He was just kept in check by Cyclops & Xavier and eventually begrudgingly listened Storm once she found her voice. Although he did actually kill those guards in the Savage Land during one of those Garrok issues(in front of Storm no less) . Thought it was a bit harsh myself.

Loose cannon and murderous psyco aren't the same things.
And even that Savage Land story was done by the next writer, not the writer who had Xavier recruit Wolverine.

[ExodusCloak]

Loose cannon and murderous psyco aren't the same things.
And even that Savage Land story was done by the next writer, not the writer who had Xavier recruit Wolverine.

In that scene there he is pretty much a murdering scociopath given Nightcrawler could have taken him out by teleporting. He chose not to. Regardless of what Lein Wein intended Wolverines first and second ongoings were largely defined by Chris Claremonts writing.

[chamber-music]

I remember Wolverine trying to murder Cyclops back back in the Claremont era.

[Bl00dwerK]

Nope read X-Men Legacy - Original Sin. If I'm remembering correctly Wolverine was originally planted to kill Charles Xavier.

Yeah, alot of bullshit's been written about the X-Men over the last decade or so. Retcons, if you ask me...

[phantom1592]

A common theme with the old-school X-men is 1) X-men don't kill 2)The school teaches you to control your powers and make you a better person. 3) Keep a leash on Wolverine.

Wolverine was always a psycho who had no problem killing if it was convienient... Scott and him came to blows quite a few times with Scott trying to cool him down and not get killed in the process. Logan's Berserker rages were a core of the character. X-men were there to help him get past them.

They have since flushed all that noble and heroic stuff. There were the occasional rare death... but for the most part they took their role as heroes pretty seriously trying to NOT give the public a reason fear them and live in peace...

They don't care about that so much anymore

[phantom1592]

Yeah, alot of bullshit's been written about the X-Men over the last decade or so. Retcons, if you ask me...

Definitely agree with this.

It was bad enough that they thought 'character growth' involved going kill happy. But these mindless retcons that state they were ALWAYS jerks and faking all this time.... that's so annoying to me...

[Agent Z]

Yep, and Ororo is being a massive hypocrite there, considering she's killed before. Anyone remember Uncanny #325? She tore out Marrow's heart with her bare hands.

Sure, Marrow got better later (I seem to recalle they retconned it so that Marrow had a second heart - but Storm didn't know that when she did it), but it was obvious given the dialogue that Storm had every intention to kill, and showed no regret over the act.

And it's funny how Ororo is going loco on Wolverine killing someone as X-Force, when over the years he's killed hundreds of people in the comics prior to that. His rampage through the Hellfire Club in Dark Phoenix was a good ol' murderfest. He decapitated Sabretooth (and prior to that, stuck a claw through his brain prior to AoA). He killed Magneto/Xorn in New X-Men #150 (in fact, I've lost count of the times he's tried to kill Magneto, only for him to come back later).

Not to mention that he was specifically placed on the Avengers because Cap wanted someone who was willing to cross the line.

Which makes no sense as Steve has killed before without much of an issue

[phantom1592]

Which makes no sense as Steve has killed before without much of an issue

Also changes to the core character. Regardless of his WWII roots, Steve had a long held belief that killing was wrong and the avengers were above that. He once broke the team up and disbanded it because they wanted to vote to kill Superme Intelligence. His weapon was always the Shield and he was a 'defensive' character... not a gun/grenade toting aggressive 'soldier'.

I HATED the discussion of 'We need wolverine to do the stuff that we can't'. It went against so much of what they stood for. Now Steve has Deadpool on the Avengers...

/Sigh....

[ExodusCloak]

Definitely agree with this.

It was bad enough that they thought 'character growth' involved going kill happy. But these mindless retcons that state they were ALWAYS jerks and faking all this time.... that's so annoying to me...

Xa ier was always a Jerk from #1.

[phantom1592]

I don't think he was so much a jerk... he really did have his dream of peace and wanted to teach kids to protect themselves. That's pretty noble.

I DO think he was misguided and irresponsible considering that day of class he's dressing them up in spandex and sending them after terrorists... I suspect there weren't a lot of permission slips or waivers signed for these field trips... O.o

[ExodusCloak]

I don't think he was so much a jerk... he really did have his dream of peace and wanted to teach kids to protect themselves. That's pretty noble.

I DO think he was misguided and irresponsible considering that day of class he's dressing them up in spandex and sending them after terrorists... I suspect there weren't a lot of permission slips or waivers signed for these field trips... O.o

No no he was a jerk Xavier was not the same person as TAS.

Just in the 60's he mind wiped everyone without their permission, sent teens to battle, faked his death and forced the X-Men to mourn him twice. And lusted over Jean Grey. He also mind wiped Beasts family and friends to forget he ever existed. These aren't retcons these are what happened at the time in the issue. Claremont stated in X-Men Companion that Xavier's cruelty is equal to Magneto.