The Minority Report! Diversity In DC and the Nu52

[GlennSimpson]

I won't deny DC pushing diversity when the new 52 started, but they should've used other very well known writers to push minority characters and even put them apart of major crossover events for other readers to notice them.

I'm torn on this. I fully understand doing things to get attention to the character, but at the same time I tend to think that if you have to do all that to get the people to buy the character, maybe it's just not a character people want to read.

[Blackfist]

I won't deny DC pushing diversity when the new 52 started, but they should've used other very well known writers to push minority characters and even put them apart of major crossover events for other readers to notice them.

I's not even that, they simply handled the characters badly from the start. When the reboot began many of the books where forced to conform to the ridged universe created in a haste. And now they are gender, seually and racially bending characters in a way seems (seems) out of desperation or just trying too hard.

[Sodam Yat]

When the New 52 launched, I heard many negative responses from readers from these minority books, which is why I mentioned that. The only book that seemed to start off positively from readers was Batwing, who had a good writer and wonderful artwork. The criticisms I heard from readers were targeted towards writers having bad storylines and bad development with those characters. It really sucks.

[BohemiaDrinker]

I have to dispute your "put them in lousy books" - a lot of the books featuring these characters are pretty good, but people still don't want them. There was nothing wrong with The Movement, for example. But nobody bought it.

There was plenty wrong with The Movement if it was to be looked upon as a potential big seller/breakout book. Character designs being the trait jumps more for me. As a superhero book, it was good, as a "product", not so much.

They have also been giving books like Static plenty of time. If people actually liked Static, then they would keep buying it while writing letters to DC telling DC what they needed to change about it. But they didn't even give it enough support to keep in around long enough to get better.

People do like Static, but those people are not necessarily reading comics. And even the ones who are might not get the book because it was, well, crap. The idea that people will buy a comic because of character alone, and write the publisher letters because the book is bad may be true in some cases, but it is, frankly, outdated.

There is a lot of responsibility on the readers' part here too.

Completely agree.

At the end of the day, if readers want minority books, they need to buy them, even if they aren't all that great.

This, I don't agree with. A bad book is a bad book, period. A complaint that the same level of talent being pushed to traditional white characters is not being pushed to minority ones is as valid as any. Sure, DC and Marvel are companies, and they may choose the "safe" way to make cash. "Aquaman" is not historically a safe property, though, and it still got Geoff Johns and Ivan Reis.

[GlennSimpson]

There was plenty wrong with The Movement if it was to be looked upon as a potential big seller/breakout book. Character designs being the trait jumps more for me. As a superhero book, it was good, as a "product", not so much.



People do like Static, but those people are not necessarily reading comics. And even the ones who are might not get the book because it was, well, crap. The idea that people will buy a comic because of character alone, and write the publisher letters because the book is bad may be true in some cases, but it is, frankly, outdated.



Completely agree.



This, I don't agree with. A bad book is a bad book, period. A complaint that the same level of talent being pushed to traditional white characters is not being pushed to minority ones is as valid as any. Sure, DC and Marvel are companies, and they may choose the "safe" way to make cash. "Aquaman" is not historically a safe property, though, and it still got Geoff Johns and Ivan Reis.

Actually, it's that name creators aren't being pushed on new characters of any race. I believe DC perceives the additive nature of name creators to be a multiplier on sales without them. So Vibe or Static with Geoff Johns and John Romita Jr. might go from 15,000 readers to 25,000 readers, but Superman with the same team may go from 30,000 to 50,000. And since those name creators probably have a higher page rate than newer ones, it's harder for those lower selling books to make enough to make the same profit.

It's like this in all sorts of things. I live in the Jackson, Mississippi area, and we rarely get any good music acts here. But if everybody who complained about the lack of good music acts went to all of the shows that DID come here, eventually word would get around that we're a strong market and maybe we'd get the good ones.

[Desh]

Some of the fault falls on fans, yes. I've seen some fans complain and complain fervently, but when DC actually does give them what they're asking for, those fans suddenly disappear. They don't praise DC for what they do right, they don't help promote the titles through word of mouth, and many of them probably don't even buy the books. And those are fans who actually seem to care. Then there are the readers of comics who won't buy any minority led title.

If we want more of these books, I think we should support the ones that we like more, and note what DC does well and give them credit where it's due. Pointing out ways things could be better is fine, too.

The fault does lie with DC, too, though. They just do not push their minority characters often at all. They're often written as background fodder, they never save the day in events that a large percentage of their readership reads, they never put big creators on their books, but as mentioned, they will for Aquaman, and so on. If they want to succeed in the long run -such as interesting a whole new group of people- that's the type of stuff they'll need to do. They've built their (currently dwindling) business with material that is rather alienating to some people, so it's going to take an extra effort to interest those who are apathetic to them.

[skyvolt2000]

I'm torn on this. I fully understand doing things to get attention to the character, but at the same time I tend to think that if you have to do all that to get the people to buy the character, maybe it's just not a character people want to read.

(FYI-this is not aimed at you)

You know it's funny how this always gets tossed out when there is talk about minority characters.

It's funny that it's alright to go all out for Harlquinn or Deadpool-two characters that have been shoved down people's throats for years.

Or to keep trying Moon Knight, She Hulk, the variant versions of Wolverine, variant version of X-Men/Avengers or Punisher with 4th to 7th series.

Or keep giving writer after writer a shot after the previous one screwed up-Hawkman & Deathstroke.

Or dig up dead properties like Green Team, Forever Gods, Dial H or All Star Western.

Or keep trying out the same genre like GI Combat.

Or start over again like Teen Titans.

Or give undeserving guys a shot in series that no one wanted like Talon or Magog.

Or take a risk with a series like Rocket Raccoon.

Yet any talk about doing the above with minority characters-fans goes NUTS. Somebody has to have an issue with it. Somebody has to scream how offended they will be if that minority appears in a book that they are reading and in many cases NOT reading.

It's funny how minority character can attract folks who can not explain what issue, storyline or book that they read that caused them to hate said minority.

All they want to point out is SALES and try to use that as some excuse for the minority character to never be used again. Failing to understand every excuse you toss at Static can apply to every single straight white male and female character.

Batman, Hal, Superman, Green Arrow, Wonder Woman, Spider-Man, Thor, Captain America and others have all FAILED at some point.

Nobody gave up on them. They kept trying until they got it right. It might not be a solo book. It might be a team book. It might be a backup story. It might be a team up book.

A Tim Drake & Static book might be your weapon to fight Ms Marvel & Miles.

Putting Cassandra Cain, Conner, Jaime Reyes, Fairchild, Stephanie Brown & Vibe might be your New Warriors for the 2014 like it was for Marvel in the 90s.

But you are not going to be able to do it if you got a set of fans who will complain just to complain. Or stores that won't stock a book because they don't like the skin color of the cast.

[skyvolt2000]

Actually, it's that name creators aren't being pushed on new characters of any race. I believe DC perceives the additive nature of name creators to be a multiplier on sales without them. So Vibe or Static with Geoff Johns and John Romita Jr. might go from 15,000 readers to 25,000 readers, but Superman with the same team may go from 30,000 to 50,000. And since those name creators probably have a higher page rate than newer ones, it's harder for those lower selling books to make enough to make the same profit.

You don't need big names for your books all the time. Look at Ms Marvel. They got a writer (who did Vixen's mini years ago) who RESEARCHED and even converted to the religion of the character that she is doing.

For many of DC's minority population-you got folks who don't care doing the books or guys with track records of writing bad books. See Static & Mr Terrific.

Look at your minority population in DC-why are they vanishing? That tells me you don't want them in your books.

[Crazy Diamond]

(FYI-this is not aimed at you)

You know it's funny how this always gets tossed out when there is talk about minority characters.

It's funny that it's alright to go all out for Harlquinn or Deadpool-two characters that have been shoved down people's throats for years.

Or to keep trying Moon Knight, She Hulk, the variant versions of Wolverine, variant version of X-Men/Avengers or Punisher with 4th to 7th series.

Or keep giving writer after writer a shot after the previous one screwed up-Hawkman & Deathstroke.

Or dig up dead properties like Green Team, Forever Gods, Dial H or All Star Western.

Or keep trying out the same genre like GI Combat.

Or start over again like Teen Titans.

Or give undeserving guys a shot in series that no one wanted like Talon or Magog.

Or take a risk with a series like Rocket Raccoon.

Yet any talk about doing the above with minority characters-fans goes NUTS. Somebody has to have an issue with it. Somebody has to scream how offended they will be if that minority appears in a book that they are reading and in many cases NOT reading.

It's funny how minority character can attract folks who can not explain what issue, storyline or book that they read that caused them to hate said minority.

All they want to point out is SALES and try to use that as some excuse for the minority character to never be used again. Failing to understand every excuse you toss at Static can apply to every single straight white male and female character.

Batman, Hal, Superman, Green Arrow, Wonder Woman, Spider-Man, Thor, Captain America and others have all FAILED at some point.

Nobody gave up on them. They kept trying until they got it right. It might not be a solo book. It might be a team book. It might be a backup story. It might be a team up book.

A Tim Drake & Static book might be your weapon to fight Ms Marvel & Miles.

Putting Cassandra Cain, Conner, Jaime Reyes, Fairchild, Stephanie Brown & Vibe might be your New Warriors for the 2014 like it was for Marvel in the 90s.

But you are not going to be able to do it if you got a set of fans who will complain just to complain. Or stores that won't stock a book because they don't like the skin color of the cast.

Thank you for saying what needed to be said.

I'm not one for ethical consumerism. You know who should be talking to writers at DC about how they handle their books? The editors. I don't work there and I don't own stock there. Instead of waiting for DC and Marvel to get it right (or get it right only to get it wrong later), I just spend more money and time supporting indie creators when I can. Does that mean that I just complain and I don't read? No. I currently read Green Lantern Corps and I read titles like Power Company, Blue Beetle, Firestorm, Manhunter in the past and that was just for their main line. However, regardless of the quality of said books they didn't seem to get much promotion from DC and ended up cancelled. With the New 52, I gave several books a shot. Blue Beetle seemed really odd and mediocre compared to the previous volume. It shocked me to find out that the same guy who wrote Negation for Crossgen did that book. Voodoo was interesting but got cancelled. Batwing started out alright then the premise changed. Mr. Teriffic, gave the first issue a shot but didn't come back to it. Static Shock I tried right up until his arm got cut off and that was before Rozum came out and revealed why the book turned out the way it did. I can't see DC letting a writer and editor who had no interested in say The Flash or Animal Man work on their books but I guess it's perfectly fine for Static.

[GlennSimpson]

Thank you for saying what needed to be said.

I'm not one for ethical consumerism. You know who should be talking to writers at DC about how they handle their books? The editors. I don't work there and I don't own stock there. Instead of waiting for DC and Marvel to get it right (or get it right only to get it wrong later), I just spend more money and time supporting indie creators when I can. Does that mean that I just complain and I don't read? No. I currently read Green Lantern Corps and I read titles like Power Company, Blue Beetle, Firestorm, Manhunter in the past and that was just for their main line. However, regardless of the quality of said books they didn't seem to get much promotion from DC and ended up cancelled. With the New 52, I gave several books a shot. Blue Beetle seemed really odd and mediocre compared to the previous volume. It shocked me to find out that the same guy who wrote Negation for Crossgen did that book. Voodoo was interesting but got cancelled. Batwing started out alright then the premise changed. Mr. Teriffic, gave the first issue a shot but didn't come back to it. Static Shock I tried right up until his arm got cut off and that was before Rozum came out and revealed why the book turned out the way it did. I can't see DC letting a writer and editor who had no interested in say The Flash or Animal Man work on their books but I guess it's perfectly fine for Static.

To be fair, everybody who worked on Static wanted it to be successful. They just disagreed on what needed to happen for that to be the case, and generally guessed wrong relative to what the readers wanted.

[Sutekh]

Or take a risk with a series like Rocket Raccoon.

Clearly we have to be inclusive and make sure that the talking raccoon demographic of comic book readers is respectfully represented.

[Blackfist]

Clearly we have to be inclusive and make sure that the talking raccoon demographic of comic book readers is respectfully represented.

That's coz the other talking rodents have cornered the market on cuteness.

[ed2962]

I can't see DC letting a writer and editor who had no interested in say The Flash or Animal Man work on their books but I guess it's perfectly fine for Static.

This actually happens a lot more than some people realize. Sometimes creators will accept an assignment just because they need the work. It's no different than some actors or directors working on a film even though they don't like the script just cuz they need a gig.

[Crazy Diamond]

This actually happens a lot more than some people realize. Sometimes creators will accept an assignment just because they need the work. It's no different than some actors or directors working on a film even though they don't like the script just cuz they need a gig.

You know what? That's a good point. Never even considered that. I mean, I remember reading a Christopher Priest interview stating that he wasn't a fan of Black Panther before he started writing him. Priest tried and did a very good job though. Rozum just never got a chance to really do what he wanted which is odd considering he worked for Milestone. I don't know why they had Mcdaniel writing.

[ed2962]

You know what? That's a good point. Never even considered that. I mean, I remember reading a Christopher Priest interview stating that he wasn't a fan of Black Panther before he started writing him. Priest tried and did a very good job though. Rozum just never got a chance to really do what he wanted which is odd considering he worked for Milestone. I don't know why they had Mcdaniel writing.

I think with Static it's just a case of the people behind the scenes just not being on the same page from jump and not being able to find any middle ground. Obviously the title suffered and there's bitter feelings all around. I don't think DC management deliberately said, "Ha! We'll put together these guys who don't get along on the same comic and see what happens!LOL!"