The Minority Report! Diversity In DC and the Nu52

[leo619]

Thanks for your insight. I agree.



I believe creating heroes (or minority heroes for that matter) takes a lot of time and risky investment. But how can you succeed without taking risks? I thought it was awesome that Kevin Grevioux took the effort to create Blue Marvel. It was sad that Blue Marvel's sales weren't all that good as I heard a while ago. I do see the other poster's points, concerning minority heroes identities are being copied by white ones that can be a bit of a lazy tactic. I think this it's because it's easier for companies to have a minority hero based off of a previous identity for probably easier appeal and promotion off of successful ones.

This is exactly why legacy characters are created, only a small portion of it is the companies fault. Most of the fault lies with the current fanbase, as they only purchase what they've been purchasing since childhood, leaving new characters to most of the time travel to the land of Limbo unless a writer has an interest for the character and tries desperately to make a pitch (*cough* Rememder and Brother Voodoo *Cough*) That's why I never sided with that idea of just creating new characters. If new characters sold, they would be making new characters. But the current demographic does not support new characters. In fact, they barely support legacy characters unless some major press is placed behind them. Notice how every success story for new characters that came out is from a legacy character, and many of them had to replace the character which already has a demographic.

That's why I say the comic book companies in a way are very smart. They know very well the current demographic won't support new characters or minority characters if they have their own book. But comic book readers are some of the biggest creature of habits I've ever seen, they will continue to read a book even when they despise it. As such, by inserting that character into an already established demographic, this seems to be currently the only way of success, as folks who were picking up Thor before, are not going to stop reading the book just because a female may replace the hero temporary, no matter how much they hate it, because they have to own the series. It's Marvel playing the cards they are given.

With that said, neither company is without fault, DC much more than marvel in my eyes, and that's because IMO, neither company is trying hard enough to bring in new readers. With new readers who weren't originally comic book readers, you have a greater chance of readers giving new and minority characters a shot who are original characters. For my upcoming comics, I'm not even going to try and go after the comic book demographic due to how restrictive their taste are. Now Marvel does try quite a bit more to get new readers by going on the View and the Colbert Report discussing Thor and Captain Falcon, but they can still do more to try and gain new readership.

It's possible that DC may be a little hesitant to give a minority character a higher priority than a white counterpart even if they see it as an advantage.

I notice other negative comments about new PoC heroes with original white identities can come negative at times. There's been other derogatory comments about Sam being Cap throughout the web (not in the CBR forums), which is sad. Despite all of this, a minority hero reached #2 in sales, which is damn impressive and no one can't deny that.

That's always been one of my major problems with DC, they tread much more lightly they seem with their characters than marvel does. But I also believe DC fans appear to be quite a bit more traditional and more resistant to change than Marvel fans. Hell, as mentioned before Val Zod could be the next big thing but a lot of internet fans not only claim for bringing back the original Earth 1, even though that would completely remove all the progress DC has made, many talk about reverting back Earth 2 to it's pre flashpoint settings. This is one of the biggest issues against the diversity as this resistance to change and something new is exactly why DC characters seem to be stuck and not able to move forward.

[Badou]

He's not wrong, because its no better on Marvel's side of the board, yes they have a minorities active how much of them is getting a real push ? Falcon and Ms Marvel and Falcon isn't even been pushed as Falcon they stuck him into a role which we all know they will take it back when Cap 3 is going to be released, and he's not even leading the main avengers, as when it comes to that he's still steve's sidekick in Hickman's stories.

I wasn't talking about pushing a character, but just general usage of them in their books. Rarely do any characters get pushes these days anyway. It's just DC has been struggling with using their more well known minority characters for a few years now. They have regressed from the start of the reboot where they were trying to use them more, in my opinion.

[Smoov-E]

I know Vertigo is actually much better in quality and diversity, but it does say something when in order to get diverse comics, one has to go for a different imprint.

Not saying only capes matter, but yeah, the main line should try to do better on all levels. Which is odd to say when guys like Lee and others are around. You'd think they would care about stuff like this.

Going by his track record that thought hasn't ever entered Jim Lee's mind

[skyvolt2000]

That's why I say the comic book companies in a way are very smart. They know very well the current demographic won't support new characters or minority characters if they have their own book.

No the companies are not smart.

Because the main group who refuse to support minority lead books are those who have never read a thing with said minority. And they vary in their membership.

The group who would never support Deadshot until Will Smith got the role. The group who haven't read Fantastic Four in CENTURIES until Michael B. Jordan showed up.

Didn't care about Storm until she got a black husband. The group that threatened a young woman about her opinion of a certain cover.

The same group that doesn't mind Cyborg in Justice League as long as he is in the background and will be the main ones upset if or when that solo series happens.

The same group that will continue to buy badly done white male lead books no matter how much they hate it. Yet will drop a book if a POC shows up in the book that they don't like or represent the image of a POC that they like.

The same group that believe if you are going to be a fan of comics-it will be because of a straight white male hero ONLY.

My issue with the companies is no one is willing to stand up to that group. No one is calling these guys out and saying "you are costing us money." "you are making our industry HOSTILE to POC and women." "We can't survive with just white males buying comics." "If you don't want to read Static then DON'T but don't insult or belittle those who want to." "Stop thinking that minority being popular is going to take over the company." "We are in the business to make money from EVERYBODY not just you."

DC much more than marvel in my eyes, and that's because IMO, neither company is trying hard enough to bring in new readers. With new readers who weren't originally comic book readers, you have a greater chance of readers giving new and minority characters a shot who are original characters.]

Translated you MUST get out of the comic book store. Now before anyone cries about Wal-Mart not selling floppies. You have to change your format.

Digests and trades can get into places where floppies can't.

A Static graphic novel once a year on McDuffie's birthday is just as good as an ongoing.

A Justice League digest with solo Cyborg stories every 4 months is FINE.

Kickstarter to fund and offset costs is FINE.

A Birds of Prey comic series on s DVD (mike Archie and Star Trek have done) is fine.

Or to be REALLY sneaky-adopt a cause. There are very few books with black males (among others) in the lead-why not do a series of graphic novels with your black male heroes. You get yr free press and if you play your cards right get new fans for other nonblack characters. You know team up Static with Green Arrow (the CW version) or Flash. Might help the ratings for those shows.

In other words you do whatever it takes to get those POC seen.

[mace11]

Actually no Mighty Avengers isn't the most diverse superhero team, as its mostly composed of black characters, The Others beats it in that department.

Mighty Avengers is not a mostly black team anymore and Kaluu,a east asian is on the team and other new members have join that are not black.



Here is the updated list for Mighty Avengers
It's my number one book now and blue marvel is my top favorite superhero ,so i keep up with news about it etc..

John stewart use to be my top favorite for a long time but that change recently.
Blame dc to a certain extent for that and other fans of other green lanterns for that and reading desh's posts in the john stewart thread and his website overtime help make me change my view etc..
There are some other reasons too but that's another topic.

It's back to marvel again for me as my more favorite comic company but that's another topic as well.







Mighty Avengers
Field Team:
Blue Marvel, Luke Cage, Captain America (Sam Wilson), Kaluu, Power Man, She-Hulk, Spectrum, Spider-Man (Peter Parker), White Tiger

Support Team:
Dave Griffith, Jessica Jones, Soraya Khorasani


I have not kept up with the avengers comic,but i heard it's really good.
Anyway the team broke up and here is their list.


Avengers (S.H.I.E.L.D.)
Agent Venom (honorary member), Captain America (Sam Wilson), Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers), Commander Steve Rogers, Hawkeye (Clint Barton), Maria Hill, Invisible Woman, Justice (reserve member), Nova (Sam Alexander) (honorary member), War Machine, War Machine Drones

Sunspot's Avengers
New Avengers:
Black Widow, Cannonball, Manifold, Pod, Shang-Chi, Smasher, Spider-Woman, Sunspot, Validator, Zebra Kids


Multiversal Avengers:
Abyss, Ex Nihili (including Ex Nihilo), Hyperion, Nightmask, Thorr, Star Brand

Other teams
Avengers Unity Division
Captain America (Sam Wilson), Doctor Voodoo, Quicksilver, Rogue, Scarlet Witch, Wonder Man (in Rogue's mind)


For more teams just open link below.
IT'S UPDATED.

Avengers (Earth-616)
http://marvel.wikia.com/Avengers_%28Earth-616%29

[colonyofcells]

Dc is still trying with some ethnic characters in JL since they forced in some canadian into JLU.

[mace11]

I almost forgot to mention that the new powerman is latino/hispanic in the mighty avengers but he is black too.
He is black hispanic/latino.
So if you check out a list of black superheros the new powerman will be on that list and if you check out the list for hispainc/latino superheros he will be on that list too.
Anyway the current mighty avengers team is not a mostly black team any more but large numbers are black.

[colonyofcells]

Hopefully, dc can put Vibe back into JL. Hal will be in the JL so I would put Jessica Cruz as a Green Lantern in JLU.

[mace11]

I edited my post above.


Well the character who maybe will become vibe is on the flash tv show so maybe vibe may join a another team.

[Sirzechs]

Oh yeah they're promoting her and I'm not sure if its in the back of all the last week's drops but I saw it in Batman :Eternal can't wait for the upcoming Titan issues.

[mace11]

That's good news.

[leo619]

No the companies are not smart.

Because the main group who refuse to support minority lead books are those who have never read a thing with said minority. And they vary in their membership.

The group who would never support Deadshot until Will Smith got the role. The group who haven't read Fantastic Four in CENTURIES until Michael B. Jordan showed up.

Didn't care about Storm until she got a black husband. The group that threatened a young woman about her opinion of a certain cover.

The same group that doesn't mind Cyborg in Justice League as long as he is in the background and will be the main ones upset if or when that solo series happens.

The same group that will continue to buy badly done white male lead books no matter how much they hate it. Yet will drop a book if a POC shows up in the book that they don't like or represent the image of a POC that they like.

The same group that believe if you are going to be a fan of comics-it will be because of a straight white male hero ONLY.

My issue with the companies is no one is willing to stand up to that group. No one is calling these guys out and saying "you are costing us money." "you are making our industry HOSTILE to POC and women." "We can't survive with just white males buying comics." "If you don't want to read Static then DON'T but don't insult or belittle those who want to." "Stop thinking that minority being popular is going to take over the company." "We are in the business to make money from EVERYBODY not just you."

Well that's not technically a knock against their intelligence though, that's more in line with their integrity, not how smart they are. As the items you mentioned has to do more on a moral standpoint than an intelligence
ideology. I do agree with what you're saying, don't get me wrong, but these descriptions fit more on it's the right thing to do, not it's the smart thing to do. With that said, anyone who follows Tom Breevorts (Marvel) formspring see's
him constantly doing the things you speak and putting down fans with white privilege entitlement, it's rather impressive sometimes.

[The S0/\/\@7ic Si/\/\[]Dl370n]

I still don't understand what's up with the milestone characters but seeing they rather create new ones than use those there's probably legal reasons.

Since Static is getting a live-action series, I'm not really sure what legal problems there are:

https://twitter.com/DCComics/status/524700430140731392

Oh yeah they're promoting her and I'm not sure if its in the back of all the last week's drops but I saw it in Batman :Eternal can't wait for the upcoming Titan issues.

LOL, wait. There's a Titans group?

[Joe Kalicki]

Character wise-Marvel

Storm
Black Panther
Blue Marvel
Cloak
Sunspot
Deathlok
Luke Cage
Brother Voodoo
Prodigy
Spectrum
Power Man 2
White Tiger
War Machine
Bishop
Ghost Rider
Nick Fury Jr.
Falcon
Blade
Miles
Jubilee
Misty Knight
Ms Marvel
Are all ACTIVE.

None are sitting in limbo, none were EDITED out of a book, none were tossed in the hands of writers who didn't want to use them, none were race changed (although Sunspot keeps getting lighter) and none who had a failed book (mini or solo) were tossed in to limbo.

The major difference between Dc and Marvel is Marvel is tossing out minority characters fans know of. There is no excuse for Static, Vixen, Beetle, Aqualad and Cassandra Cain (and probably John Stewart) to be in limbo. You can toss out offensive Wally West and death fodder Powergirl but they are not nor will they ever be Vixen, Beetle or Static.

Also Marvel has a PR machine that will let you know, DC pretty much wants you to come to them and we know that doesn't work.


The Vertigo books are left out because DC won't talk about them beyond that first or milestone issue or when they are ending. Also most comic stores don't sell them and by the time that trade comes out-the book is gone. That is a Dc issue-you can't wait till cons to promote those books and then forget about them.

I see a small list of characters, some have big roles and solo titles, some not so much. Some popular, some not.

A list of minority DC characters would look pretty similar. And again, that's only if you don't count their entire publishing line.

The rest is all your opinion, and I frankly disagree with it.

[Sirzechs]

Since Static is getting a live-action series, I'm not really sure what legal problems there are:

https://twitter.com/DCComics/status/524700430140731392



LOL, wait. There's a Titans group?

You know what I meant