Should Superman "retire" from the Justice League

[ManSinha]

There are scenarios where Batman has stated that he is not cut out to be a full time member but agreed to be a part time member of the Justice League
I am thinking - should JL be a showcase for the lesser-well-published heroes and heroines and Superman is called upon when the League really needs him
Else the writers have to "degrade" several of his attributes
Intelligence - because Batman has the copyright on that
Speed - because that is a Flash trademark
Will Power - oh no - that belongs to the Lantern

On the same lines how would you feel about WW sitting out the JL as well - but called upon for the more magically inclined foes perhaps -

[Ascended]

I think its a fine line to walk.

You can take some of the big names out of the League and everyone seems okay with it. Hal Jordan was missing from the League for what, a year or more, and people were cool.

But I think the days where the League could be made up entirely of second stringers is passed. I dont think the market has much interest right now in a League that doesnt have the big names.

As for Superman in particular, I'd be fine with him only showing up when its really a "job for Superman". I think you could have him fly in for the really big stuff and showcase just how super he is without making the regular Leaguers look superfluous by ensuring that even with Supes around, they still have things they excel at or are best suited for.

I think if you had a "rotating cast" of the big names featured in different arcs, with a stable roster of secondary characters used all the time, it might work. Maybe have characters like Vixen, Vibe, Dr. Light, Atom, Firestorm, and whoever serve as your mainstays, and then add in Flash and Batman for an arc while the rest of the Big 7 are doing their own thing, then in the next arc bring in Clark and Orin....yeah, that might work. Though I think the quality would have to be better than average with a writer who, maybe not an A-lister, but someone who the fans know fairly well. I know he's a Marvel exclusive but someone like Al Ewing, who isn't pulling in huge sales on name alone (yet) but is well liked.

[manofsteel1979]

Well, for almost a decade (1986-1996) this is exactly how DC treated Superman in relation to the JLA. In the Post-Crisis Universe, he was an honorary member only and only showed up when they really needed him. The only exception during that time was the few months he was the leader of Dan Jurgens JUSTICE LEAGUE roster just prior to THE DEATH OF SUPERMAN (I'm convinced the only reason this happened was to allow the JLA title to tie in when the DOOMSDAY story hit.). In 1996, Morrison made him a regular member of his" all star" Justice League and has been a JLA staple since.

I actually personally wouldn't mind seeing Superman return to honorary status again, and honestly detatch Superman from the larger DCU for a couple years so we can actually get a handle on the character and get his house in order...but it ain't gonna happen, especially with the DCEU featuring a JUSTICE LEAGUE co-founded and led by Superman.

[Stanlos]

There are scenarios where Batman has stated that he is not cut out to be a full time member but agreed to be a part time member of the Justice League
I am thinking - should JL be a showcase for the lesser-well-published heroes and heroines and Superman is called upon when the League really needs him
Else the writers have to "degrade" several of his attributes
Intelligence - because Batman has the copyright on that
Speed - because that is a Flash trademark
Will Power - oh no - that belongs to the Lantern

On the same lines how would you feel about WW sitting out the JL as well - but called upon for the more magically inclined foes perhaps -

I think that all of the original powerhouses (Superman Wonder Woman Captain Marvel) might be better served in their own universes entirely in order to fully explore their deal and get to use the full potential of their powers. In a limited way, I almost think the same thing for Flash since superspeed is really really powerful even without the other abilities/attributes the others wield.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

I haven't read JLI, but that seems to be the only time this has ever really worked, and that's because it to some extent changed the storytelling engine the League operated under - even the League's original purpose as showing off the biggest guys outside of Superman and Batman showed off the biggest after those two. This last little while since 1995 or so it's repeatedly gone the same way:

1. Reformat the League to all or at least in large part big characters, to solid success.

2. Start including some more B and C-list characters to showcase them and build up their fans. This does fine.

3. The bright idea of "hey, this is working well, and the JLA was originally built as a showcase for somewhat smaller characters, let's let these guys take over the book".

4. The book falls the hell apart, they make it the big guys again, sales surge again.

I mean, my understanding is that aside from JLI (which, again, basically changed the fundamental nature of the book for the duration of its run), the book never sold all that well anyway until Morrison made it all about the big guns doing big stuff. Even more than Avengers, which has more adaptability and team dynamic-centric stories a lot of the time, I think this is just the model the League has to operate under even if you can change up who fits in that model (such as at least in theory promoting Cyborg to the A-list), and it's up to good creators to make it work.

[Shadowedeyes]

I kinda have to agree with what appears to be the general consensus, that nowadays it seems that the expectation is that the Justice League consists of the Big 7, or at least most of them, and maybe a couple of other characters. Trying to have honorary members that only show up once in awhile could be tough to pull off sales wise.

[ManSinha]

I mean, my understanding is that aside from JLI (which, again, basically changed the fundamental nature of the book for the duration of its run), the book never sold all that well anyway until Morrison made it all about the big guns doing big stuff. Even more than Avengers, which has more adaptability and team dynamic-centric stories a lot of the time, I think this is just the model the League has to operate under even if you can change up who fits in that model (such as at least in theory promoting Cyborg to the A-list), and it's up to good creators to make it work.

Thank you

That was kinda my point - one that has been made elsewhere with far more eloquence - that DC's characters are literal gods - over the top uber powerful while Marvel's are not - in the first Avengers movie - them fighting the Chitauri with Thor the closest to the MoS was almost believable with what little I remember reading about them in the comic books

[ManSinha]

I kinda have to agree with what appears to be the general consensus, that nowadays it seems that the expectation is that the Justice League consists of the Big 7, or at least most of them, and maybe a couple of other characters. Trying to have honorary members that only show up once in awhile could be tough to pull off sales wise.

Hmmmm - the all star Batman would still be there - as would the Flash and GL - I was only wondering about the MoS as the poster with his namesake pointed out above -

[Shadowedeyes]

Assuming it works, the next difficulty would be making the usual team appear to the reader as competent, while making the reader believe that the big threats that Superman shows up for, well, big enough that you can buy the team needing help on this one. Obviously there's no real answer other than a good writer pulling it off to this issue, but it is something to keep in mind.

Ultimately I'd say it's not really any easier than having Superman around all the time and balancing making Superman appear super while still showcasing the rest of the team and showing why it's a benefit for them all to team up.

[Flash Gordon]

JLA7Pg16.jpg

No, but he should be reserved for when shite like this goes down.

[Tayswift]

I think that superman is better used when the stakes are really high.

well he is supergenius, stronger being on earth, superspeed and if fans doesn't want some concessions on it, better way is take him out.

[Prime]

Yes. He is basically a walking statue in Johns run.

[Stanlos]

I haven't read JLI, but that seems to be the only time this has ever really worked, and that's because it to some extent changed the storytelling engine the League operated under - even the League's original purpose as showing off the biggest guys outside of Superman and Batman showed off the biggest after those two. This last little while since 1995 or so it's repeatedly gone the same way:

1. Reformat the League to all or at least in large part big characters, to solid success.

2. Start including some more B and C-list characters to showcase them and build up their fans. This does fine.

3. The bright idea of "hey, this is working well, and the JLA was originally built as a showcase for somewhat smaller characters, let's let these guys take over the book".

4. The book falls the hell apart, they make it the big guys again, sales surge again.

I mean, my understanding is that aside from JLI (which, again, basically changed the fundamental nature of the book for the duration of its run), the book never sold all that well anyway until Morrison made it all about the big guns doing big stuff. Even more than Avengers, which has more adaptability and team dynamic-centric stories a lot of the time, I think this is just the model the League has to operate under even if you can change up who fits in that model (such as at least in theory promoting Cyborg to the A-list), and it's up to good creators to make it work.

Hmmmm. Reading the JL trade (bwahaha first stories collection) intro we see that the use of the big guys was in fact the original thought of that team as well.

But I guess few writers can really do the scale to justify such a gathering

[DieHard200904]

I think this is a good idea. I would like to stick some other DC characters to feature into the league sometimes.

[Nite-Wing]

Doesn't need to be on the JL
He is honestly a relic on the team at this point
Looking at Johns run he barely did anything and got served with the worf effect for most of the series
Replace him with Shazam or Martian Manhunter and nothing is lost

Of course if you ever retire Superman people will complain about where's superman but who knows GL took an extended break from the group and everything was fine