Should Superman "retire" from the Justice League

[DieHard200904]

Doesn't need to be on the JL
He is honestly a relic on the team at this point
Looking at Johns run he barely did anything and got served with the worf effect for most of the series
Replace him with Shazam or Martian Manhunter and nothing is lost

Of course if you ever retire Superman people will complain about where's superman but who knows GL took an extended break from the group and everything was fine

I was disappointed not seeing MM on the JL early on TBH, guess I got used to him being there. He would make a good Superman replacement if necessary though.

[Ascended]

Doesn't need to be on the JL
He is honestly a relic on the team at this point
Looking at Johns run he barely did anything and got served with the worf effect for most of the series
Replace him with Shazam or Martian Manhunter and nothing is lost

Of course if you ever retire Superman people will complain about where's superman but who knows GL took an extended break from the group and everything was fine

True, but Johns cant write Superman for his life. At his absolute best, he's capable of writing a "decent" Superman. To say that Superman's been pointless on the League says less about the character and more about the guy writing the book.

For example, in the latest issue, god-powered Superman, the new God of Strength (yeah, its pretty bad) gets backhanded by Ultraman and isnt seen again for the rest of the issue. You'd think "God of Strength" would mean he could take it without flinching, but apparently not. Johns is going out of his way to not write Superman, and that's no fault of the character.

As long as Johns is behind the book, Im fine with Clark not being there. But Superman belongs on the League as much as the rest of them, if not more. I'd just like to see his role handled better, which may or may not involve just showing up when it really matters.

[Flash Gordon]

Doesn't need to be on the JL
He is honestly a relic on the team at this point
Looking at Johns run he barely did anything and got served with the worf effect for most of the series
Replace him with Shazam or Martian Manhunter and nothing is lost

Of course if you ever retire Superman people will complain about where's superman but who knows GL took an extended break from the group and everything was fine

He's only a "relic" on the team because Johns is writing the book.

I'd rather watch paint dry than have Martian Manhunter in a starring role.

[ManSinha]

Doesn't need to be on the JL
He is honestly a relic on the team at this point
Looking at Johns run he barely did anything and got served with the worf effect for most of the series

That is one of the reasons I asked the question - why bring him in on the roster and make him look less than Super

[Nite-Wing]

That is one of the reasons I asked the question - why bring him in on the roster and make him look less than Super

The worf effect exists because its an easy way to establish your villains as a big deal.
Superman has consistently been the one to be neutralized or singled out in almost every arc of the title BECAUSE he's the tank of the team.
He makes for some nice splash pages but anything else is not so good currently

Maybe Superman should start his own team like Batman did with the Outsiders. Super League seems promising or maybe a modern day iteration of the LOSH

[Superlad93]

If it's me, this problem has a solution with a pretty cool ripple effect.

I'd opt for a JLU style setup for the League. There aren't seven members or even seventeen, there's 40-some members strong. If the JL book is your big "crux of the universe" book then why not basically make it DCU the comic book?

I'm talking the whole nine: the mount Olympus-style watchtower in space, the rotating "on duty" League member, the purple suited staff comprised of ordinary men and women, the central coordinator (Cyborg, MM, or Mr Terrific), and the original seven as the main pantheon.

Side note: a whole comic book centered around the ordinary purple suited blue collar staff of the JL is the best idea DC has never had. Make it quirky like Bob, Agent of Hydra for some issues. Then make it plus-poundingly grounded like a Vertigo book the next. Look at the DCU and the JL through the eyes of these 9 to 5 working men and women who happen to work on the equivalent of mount Olympus.

Superman: Well it's simple, he doesn't give up his seat but as a writer you're not forced to write him and rack your brain on how to get him out of the way of that very particular JL story you've been dying to tell. In fact this solves that issue for all of the "big guns". You can have a issue where it's just the "D squad" of heroes everyone thinks are lame (in and out of universe). And you're more than welcome to use the big 7 whenever you like.

Bruce Timm really gave DC a great platform that they're not taking full advantage of. Timm and company's ability to mix the mundane and the fantastic made JLU such a great and versatile show that never needed to lean on the big guys too much. So why not adapt it completely? That'd fix a good bit of issues in this current incarnation.

[Ascended]

If it's me, this problem has a solution with a pretty cool ripple effect.

I'd opt for a JLU style setup for the League. There aren't seven members or even seventeen, there's 40-some members strong. If the JL book is your big "crux of the universe" book then why not basically make it DCU the comic book?

I'm talking the whole nine: the mount Olympus-style watchtower in space, the rotating "on duty" League member, the purple suited staff comprised of ordinary men and women, the central coordinator (Cyborg, MM, or Mr Terrific), and the original seven as the main pantheon.

Side note: a whole comic book centered around the ordinary purple suited blue collar staff of the JL is the best idea DC has never had. Make it quirky like Bob, Agent of Hydra for some issues. Then make it plus-poundingly grounded like a Vertigo book the next. Look at the DCU and the JL through the eyes of these 9 to 5 working men and women who happen to work on the equivalent of mount Olympus.

Superman: Well it's simple, he doesn't give up his seat but as a writer you're not forced to write him and rack your brain on how to get him out of the way of that very particular JL story you've been dying to tell. In fact this solves that issue for all of the "big guns". You can have a issue where it's just the "D squad" of heroes everyone thinks are lame (in and out of universe). And you're more than welcome to use the big 7 whenever you like.

Bruce Timm really gave DC a great platform that they're not taking full advantage of. Timm and company's ability to mix the mundane and the fantastic made JLU such a great and versatile show that never needed to lean on the big guys too much. So why not adapt it completely? That'd fix a good bit of issues in this current incarnation.

My thoughts exactly. In fact, that show completely changed the way I envision and think about the League, and I think its a shame that DC hasn't put more effort into capturing the kind of magic JLU brought.

It'd be easy as hell. And if you're worried about turning readers off by having a "grounded" story about the Watchtower staff in one issue and then a story about Vixen and some other C-listers taking down the Extremists the next, just run different books.

Justice League could focus on the Big 7 with a Morrison style approach; the biggest names taking on the biggest challenges. The larger infrastructure of the League could be ignored as much as needed, or utilized whenever its convenient. If you dont like the idea of a big League, this book could still work for you.

Justice League United could focus on the lesser characters, with each issue and/or arc putting a handful of characters in the spotlight; most likely using one or two of the big names to prop it up, much as the JLU cartoon did. One arc could be Zatanna, Captain Atom, Batman, Flash and August General in Iron taking on Kanjar Ro while the next issue/arc has Superman, Green Lantern, Vixen, Ice and Hawkman deal with a rogue comet. Or you could mix it up within an issue; dedicate one half to the first squad and the other half to the second, or however you want to mess with it. Fans of the old JLU cartoon would obviously be down for that, and every issue/arc has the chance of pulling in a fan of a lesser known character while the big names are around enough to help pull in their fans and keep sales steady. Lemire's JLU tried to do this, but without any of the big names to support it and without a constant, regular cast. Swamp Thing showed up for the first arc but we all knew he'd never be seen again. With the setup I describe here, even if Vibe doesnt showcase for a few stories, you know he's around and he can be seen in the background of some panels and you get the sense of consistency that Lemire ended up lacking, despite having a handful of "regulars".

Then you could publish Justice League: Watchtower for the old Bwahaha JLI fans, and that book could focus on the support staff and heroes who spend most of their time on the Watchtower, or even live there. More character driven with more subplots, and the action would just serve as a backdrop to the drama unfolding as Vibe tries to work up the courage to ask Fire out on a date, or T. O. Morrow struggles with his inner demons which we all know will eventually lead to him betraying the League and becoming a villain, or we watch as Jack Hawksmoore tries to keep the fact that he's a StormWatch spy secret from the rest of the League while simultaneously questioning whether he should be spying on them after all.

[Sacred Knight]

If Johns was staying on the title I'd say absolutely yes, he needs to leave the team. But since he is leaving maybe the next writer will do better by him. Maybe.

[Superlad93]

My thoughts exactly. In fact, that show completely changed the way I envision and think about the League, and I think its a shame that DC hasn't put more effort into capturing the kind of magic JLU brought.

It'd be easy as hell. And if you're worried about turning readers off by having a "grounded" story about the Watchtower staff in one issue and then a story about Vixen and some other C-listers taking down the Extremists the next, just run different books.

Justice League could focus on the Big 7 with a Morrison style approach; the biggest names taking on the biggest challenges. The larger infrastructure of the League could be ignored as much as needed, or utilized whenever its convenient. If you dont like the idea of a big League, this book could still work for you.

Justice League United could focus on the lesser characters, with each issue and/or arc putting a handful of characters in the spotlight; most likely using one or two of the big names to prop it up, much as the JLU cartoon did. One arc could be Zatanna, Captain Atom, Batman, Flash and August General in Iron taking on Kanjar Ro while the next issue/arc has Superman, Green Lantern, Vixen, Ice and Hawkman deal with a rogue comet. Or you could mix it up within an issue; dedicate one half to the first squad and the other half to the second, or however you want to mess with it. Fans of the old JLU cartoon would obviously be down for that, and every issue/arc has the chance of pulling in a fan of a lesser known character while the big names are around enough to help pull in their fans and keep sales steady. Lemire's JLU tried to do this, but without any of the big names to support it and without a constant, regular cast. Swamp Thing showed up for the first arc but we all knew he'd never be seen again. With the setup I describe here, even if Vibe doesnt showcase for a few stories, you know he's around and he can be seen in the background of some panels and you get the sense of consistency that Lemire ended up lacking, despite having a handful of "regulars".

Then you could publish Justice League: Watchtower for the old Bwahaha JLI fans, and that book could focus on the support staff and heroes who spend most of their time on the Watchtower, or even live there. More character driven with more subplots, and the action would just serve as a backdrop to the drama unfolding as Vibe tries to work up the courage to ask Fire out on a date, or T. O. Morrow struggles with his inner demons which we all know will eventually lead to him betraying the League and becoming a villain, or we watch as Jack Hawksmoore tries to keep the fact that he's a StormWatch spy secret from the rest of the League while simultaneously questioning whether he should be spying on them after all.

We really do agree on a lot of things lol

To be honest with you I'd envisioned Justice League and Justice League Unlimited as one big "the DCU in ONE BOOK" sort of thing. You're JLU description is what I had in mind along with arcs where it's just the big dogs doing their thing. But through out each issue you always get a sense of what the big guns are doing behind the scenes even if we don't always follow them. Then I'm thinking the Watchtower staff book starts as a back up in this book and then grows into a maxi them maybe, if people appreciate the charm, it gets an ongoing.

The Watchtower in general should retain that "worker bee" always something to do feel that the show introduced. Like that part in Flex Mentallo. You know the one lol. Great and interesting stories can be told with this format because you're basically writing the DCU but calling it JLU, ya know? You can get as quite and soft or as big and epic as you like. The story of how Superman recruited the latest new hero and showed him or her around. Or the one where the government worker comes to do his annual, but what could the League be hiding? Or the one where the big 7 has to attend to a crisis in another universe, so it's a cross cut between the B through Cs and the A team. Then the one where the same kid Superman recruited is found dead and Clark has to deal with the idea that he drafted him. Now no one really bats and eyelash (I feel) if it's not always always Superman punching out a monster in the JL book. I think this sort of thing helped Young Justice quite a bit. You didn't need every hero beating up a bad guy or solving a mystery because you weren't writing a team show/book; you were writing a DCU show/book.

Side note: You're idea to split them is probably the smartest and honestly most lucrative, but the no holds bar "DCU IN ONE BOOK" is just callin' my name. I'd feel like I could have total freedom with the big guns if the focus is always to mix and match and use the big guns to prop. So I'm pretty torn on the idea.

Oh and don't even get me started on the "Purple Shirts" Watchtower staff comic. I can see that comic in my minds eye as clear as day. Just watch the Task Force X episode of JLU for part one of my template.

DC needs to pick us up or at the very least steal these ideas I just wanna see it hit print to be honest with you!

[Ascended]

DC needs to pick us up or at the very least steal these ideas I just wanna see it hit print to be honest with you!

Yeah, but you know what would happen. We'd be amazing and as soon as we got popular DC would kick us off the books we want because "The A list only writes Batman" so I'd have to quit DC (I'd be a terrible Batman writer) and go to the indies.

And yes, the "DCU in ONE BOOK" idea is great and its what I'd like to see, but from a business standpoint splitting the focus up would be the safer route, I feel.

[Last Son of Krypton]

I always saw the Justice League as part of the extended family of Superman.
If someone has to retire from the League it's Batman, or Bruce can stay and be the JL's secretary. Reading Darkseid War, I know that he likes to keep his ass planted on a chair .

[ManSinha]

If someone has to retire from the League it's Batman, or Bruce can stay and be the JL's secretary. Reading Darkseid War, I know that he likes to keep his ass planted on a chair .

At least that is what Johns has him do :P

[Prime]

I always saw the Justice League as part of the extended family of Superman.
If someone has to retire from the League it's Batman, or Bruce can stay and be the JL's secretary. Reading Darkseid War, I know that he likes to keep his ass planted on a chair .

Just shows how much DC is full of it.

[MadFacedKid]

I'd honestly remove the Trinity and have them appear every once in a while as Allies similar to Waid's JL Year One.

I'd probably bring in Martian Manhunter, Keep Shazam in cause he plays well with Vic and bring in Zatanna so we could have the lead characters for JL Detroit aa well as a classic mix up.