Peter David on the Iron Fist casting

[Venom Melendez]

I disagree with him. First: I don't think Danny being white is integral to the character. Danny being American is integral. Second: People aren't saying he should be Asian-American because he does martial arts. They're saying he should be Asian-American because the character adopts, as his own, a culture he does not belong to. It's the cultural appropriation element, and hey! There's more to Asian culture than martial arts! If he was a white guy who grew up in LA and learned kung fu at a local dojo, that would be one thing. But he's a white guy who travels to Magic Tibet and becomes the Best Magic Tibetan because white people are better at foreign cultures than the people who actually come from those cultures are.

Third, I don't buy the "this is how it has to be because that's how it's always been" line of thought. I find it to be, in truth, intellectually lazy. It's shrugging and saying, "Maybe there's a problem, but eh, whaddayagonnado?" Iron Fist is a character who is Problematic. The correct way of dealing with the problem is not to pretend it doesn't exist. I don't think it's unfair at all to apply contemporary sensibilities to older stories and characters. I think it actually serves a valuable purpose, by allowing us to see where things were done wrong in the past, so we can try to do them better going forward. And when adapting a story to another medium, it's valuable to examine the story for elements that modern sensibilities may not appreciate. (Not to mention elements that a broader audience may not appreciate - let's be honest, the number of people who will watch the Iron Fist show is vastly greater than the number of people who read Iron Fist comics, or who actually give half a shit about the character outside the show. Most of the people who watch it will only know he's white in the comics because they're told he's white in the comics. And I would bet good money that almost everybody who will watch Iron Fist still would have watched it with an Asian-American lead.)

And by the way, people DID call for Dr. Strange to be Asian-American (or, at the very least, a person of colour). A lot of people were disappointed that Dr. Strange was cast as Yet Another White Guy. People got downright pissed when the Ancient One was also cast as Yet Another White Person. Because that's the world we live in: Whitewashing still goddamn exists. That shit still goes down! And how many of the people defending a white Danny Rand objected to a white Ancient One? I would guess probably not that many, and not very passionately. If they cast a white woman as Colleen Wing, you think most of the people defending a white Danny would be up in arms? Shit, no. The most cynical side of me almost hopes they do cast a white woman as Colleen Wing, just to see how many of the people insisting Danny has to be white would actually say anything about it.

So, yeah, all due respect to PAD, I think he's just straight-up wrong here.

Are you not familiar with Iron Fist's origin? He doesn't "adopt on his own" the culture of K'un L'un. He was a child when Lei Kung the Thunderer adopted him as his own son because his parents had died.

You make it sound like Danny joined them as an adult and had a choice in the matter.

[Venom Melendez]

I don't have any real problem with the casting, only that to me, he doesn't look old enough. But then again I've only seen casting photos.

Danny Rand has always been the younger of the two though.

[aja_christopher]

It has something to do with lack of Asian representation in mainstream media though. Namely that you seem to condone it in one situation, but not the other.

Never said I "condone" it one way and not the other -- just that it tends to frequently happen one way (Asian to white) and rarely the other (white to Asian).

Big Hero 6's main character in the comics was Asian and I agreed that making him half-white and Asian-American in the movie was a reasonable compromise. If anything, that means I "condoned" white-washing a Japanese character in Big Hero 6... just as I "condone" making a "white" comic book character half-Asian in the Iron fist series.

There's nothing contradictory about that.

Like I said before -- it's pretty pointless to argue with people who don't listen.

Have a good day.

[Venom Melendez]

This was a point I made earlier. Danny Rand isn't the "best" at the martial arts or Asian culture.

I understand the problematic "white manifest destiny" thing but it doesn't entirely apply Iron Fist.

Like I've said earlier, I don't feel Danny Rand needs to be white but I don't agree with the assertion that Rand is using Asian culture as a prop. That comes back down to my point that only an Asian man can be an martial arts based superhero.

That's wrong because there are many non-Asian martial arts greats in real life.

And Danny Rand is not even the greatest martial artist in the MU. That honor goes to Shang-Chi.

I don't think he's even the best in K'un l'un.

[Captain Haddock]

And Danny Rand is not even the greatest martial artist in the MU. That honor goes to Shang-Chi.

I don't think he's even the best in K'un l'un.

Davos is at the very least of comparable skill. Then there are the likes of Lei Kung and the other Immortal Weapons who are all at least as good as Danny and possibly even better. There's also the likes of The Cat and Shang Chi and even Steve Rogers and Wolverine and so on who have similar martial arts skills but not the qi abilities. Although in fairness, this will not be at all apparent in a Netflix series featuring only a few of them.

[mace11]

I wonder if they would get a euro-asian/bi-racial asian actor to play shang.



https://i863.photobucket.com/albums/...s.jpg~original

Chronology of Dr. Fu Manchu and Sir Denis Nayland Smith
http://www.pjfarmer.com/woldnewton/Fumanchu.htm

Fu Manchu
http://woldnewtonresource.wikia.com/wiki/Fu_Manchu


So both shang's parents are bi-racial east asians and the big guy he is about to fight calls him half-breed.

So shang in the comics is really a bi-racial asian too like mantis,colleen wing and the actor Dave Bautista(drax) in guardians.

The info is from here.

Thread: Asian marvel characters appreciation
http://community.comicbookresources....ciation/page20

[Iron Maiden]

Davos is at the very least of comparable skill. Then there are the likes of Lei Kung and the other Immortal Weapons who are all at least as good as Danny and possibly even better. There's also the likes of The Cat and Shang Chi and even Steve Rogers and Wolverine and so on who have similar martial arts skills but not the qi abilities. Although in fairness, this will not be at all apparent in a Netflix series featuring only a few of them.

QFT. I mentioned this several pages ago as reply to the Mighty Whitey crap. Danny simply does not fit that since there are other masters and he didn't usurp the position of spiritual leadership or anything along those lines.

[cyberhubbs]

Davos is at the very least of comparable skill. Then there are the likes of Lei Kung and the other Immortal Weapons who are all at least as good as Danny and possibly even better. There's also the likes of The Cat and Shang Chi and even Steve Rogers and Wolverine and so on who have similar martial arts skills but not the qi abilities. Although in fairness, this will not be at all apparent in a Netflix series featuring only a few of them.

Danny lost his first match during the Seven Cities tournament to Fat Cobra, if I remember correctly. Got his butt kicked, at that.

I imagine the point will be that he thinks he can clean up the streets without really knowing anything about them, and that's where Luke Cage's friendship and partnership comes in.

[Captain Haddock]

QFT. I mentioned this several pages ago as reply to the Mighty Whitey crap. Danny simply does not fit that since there are other masters and he didn't usurp the position of spiritual leadership or anything along those lines.

Admittedly most of my knowledge comes from the Fraction and Brubaker stuff and later but even in that run whilst everyone respected his skill it was made clear there was an awful lot he didn't know. He was a pawn in multiple games and didn't even realise he was being played for a while. As it stands as you say he's not a leader or even an icon in and of himself (the Immortal Weapons ARE, the individual incarnations are not) and I don't think he's ever been shown as universally beloved or respected by those in Kun Lun.

He's ''only'' really, really good at kung fu. Which in and of itself doesn't make him eligible for the 'Mighty Whitey' status when there's multiple other characters of various racial backgrounds who are AT LEAST equally good at fighting and have other abilities and skills besides.

Danny lost his first match during the Seven Cities tournament to Fat Cobra, if I remember correctly. Got his butt kicked, at that.

I imagine the point will be that he thinks he can clean up the streets without really knowing anything about them, and that's where Luke Cage's friendship and partnership comes in.

Well, on the Netflix universe side I think this could actually be where a rich white Danny is potentially a plot strength. He comes in like kung fu Batman attempting to clean up the streets with his awesome skills but it takes someone like Cage to show him actually he could do a whole lot more as 'Daniel Rand, Industrialist Billionaire' than 'Danny Rand, Iron Fist.' And to me, that narrative if they take it works stronger with him being a privileged white guy who slowly realises how privileged he actually was.

[Captain Haddock]

OOPS. Double Post

[AcesX1X]

well, it seem like we all get to have the cake and eat it too.

marvel are adding shang-chi to the iron fist show, so now everyone can be happy

[Andy]

I honestly cannot believe that there are people in this world who are so racist to believe that because a character knows martial arts that he should be Asian. All in the name of Social justice and *gasp* tolerance!!

It's 2016 folks seriously you're embarrassing it's time to be adults

[cyberhubbs]

Admittedly most of my knowledge comes from the Fraction and Brubaker stuff and later but even in that run whilst everyone respected his skill it was made clear there was an awful lot he didn't know. He was a pawn in multiple games and didn't even realise he was being played for a while. As it stands as you say he's not a leader or even an icon in and of himself (the Immortal Weapons ARE, the individual incarnations are not) and I don't think he's ever been shown as universally beloved or respected by those in Kun Lun.

He's ''only'' really, really good at kung fu. Which in and of itself doesn't make him eligible for the 'Mighty Whitey' status when there's multiple other characters of various racial backgrounds who are AT LEAST equally good at fighting and have other abilities and skills besides.



Well, on the Netflix universe side I think this could actually be where a rich white Danny is potentially a plot strength. He comes in like kung fu Batman attempting to clean up the streets with his awesome skills but it takes someone like Cage to show him actually he could do a whole lot more as 'Daniel Rand, Industrialist Billionaire' than 'Danny Rand, Iron Fist.' And to me, that narrative if they take it works stronger with him being a privileged white guy who slowly realises how privileged he actually was.

Which is a cool direction to take over the course of the first season.

Immortal Weapons by Season 2 or Bust!

[Ken Ashcroft]

And Danny Rand is not even the greatest martial artist in the MU. That honor goes to Shang-Chi.

I don't think he's even the best in K'un l'un.

Danny has been described as being the finest martial artist in the world though so has Shang-Chi. They have been shown to be pretty much equals in the past.

[Captain Haddock]

Which is a cool direction to take over the course of the first season.

Immortal Weapons by Season 2 or Bust!

Oh yeah. If I don't get me some live action Fat Cobra there will be all kinds of consequences. And not good ones!