How to fix Batfamily

[REAL]

Reading the Tim thread made me realize that there are many problems with Batfamily. So I decided to make a thread to share our opinions on how to fix the Batfamily. Especially with REBIRTH coming soon.

My ideas for the ideal Batman world are:

- Have Jason and dick be the only Robins and let the Robin identity die with Jason. Having Robin after what happened with Jason made Batman look really bad no matter what the reasons they give.

- Let Nightwing have his own way and let him lead a team because he's seriously a good leader. And let the team be important in DC universe.

- Have Jason return as Red Hood and let him find his own way as antihero. I don't mind him making up with the Batfamily because he will always part of them, but I will not let him answer their every call for help. He can be nice guy, but not that nice. Especially to them and he also a busy guy.

- Introduce Tim as smart-ass arrogant kid who manged to find out Batman identity. Makes him older and give him a completely new identity and let him fill the void that Jason and dick left out on Batman without him intending to or realizing that. And Let Bruce teach him that life isn't game (having Tim treating life as game make more sense than Jason's in his last days as Robin because that was completely idiotic considering his background) and being a Superhero is a serious business. Then let him find his own way.

- Delete Damien from the main continuity because he literally added nothing to the Batfamily. We already have angry and killer Robin with Jason and it wasn't like the first time we see Bruce acting like a father considering that he is already adopted three kids (four if counted Cass) before Damien was introduced. Instead, have him appear in alternative world with him be being the only Robin and have Bruce deal with being a father for first time because Damien doesn't fit with the other Robins and he is more interesting on his own. Not to mention that it will not be long before he get stick in limbo like Tim has right now.

- Have Barbara act like an adult instead of whatever they are doing with her right now and let her be someone the Batfamily can depend on time of crisis. I don't mind her being Batgirl if it is done right.

- Have Alfred play more active role with rest of the family instead of him being just Batman's babysitter.

- Have Bruce, Alfred, Dick, Barbara, Jason and Tim be the only main characters in the Bat-universe.

- Have Jim, Cass, Stephanie and Batwomen play major roles and sometimes even have their own mini series.

- Let the rest of the Batfamily just be a supporting members who appears sometimes in the main Batman books. Having so many bat characters isn't the problem, they are the ones who made the Bat-universe such a rich world. The problem is the writers who push these characters so bad to the point that fans can't stand them anymore and then get ignored because of it.

So, what do you guys think? And how do you want to fix the Batfamily?

[Venom2099]

im pretty sure that it doesnt need to be fixed since its been the best selling book...

[MajorHoy]

But wouldn't that sort of involve rebooting the entire DC universe?
I thought DC said they weren't doing that with Rebirth?

[Kurtzberg]

How about not engaging in a massive rewriting of the Batman universe and the DC universe by extension, because that will just piss of people even more than the New52

[REAL]

But wouldn't that sort of involve rebooting the entire DC universe?
I thought DC said they weren't doing that with Rebirth?

I don't think that they will ever to do it, dude. It is just an opinion on how to fix the Batfamily and wishful thinking.

How about not engaging in a massive rewriting of the Batman universe and the DC universe by extension, because that will just piss of people even more than the New52

Any change is going to piss off the fans no matter what.

If it is good and done right, fans will accept it like they did with Post-Crisis.

[Venom2099]

I havent bought batman since the nineties...but im thinking of jumping onboard the main batman title with the new rebirth relaunch....see how it goes...

[Kurtzberg]

I don't think that they will ever to do it, dude. It is just an opinion on how to fix the Batfamily and wishful thinking.



Any change is going to piss off the fans no matter what.

If it is good and done right, fans will accept it like they did with Post-Crisis.

You're talking about pretty radical change, like killing off an iconic element such as the Robin mantle and wiping out popular characters that move units like Damian altogether from the main continuity. That sounds a lot like something that would have people busting out pitchforks and torches on the internet so something that isn't actually horribly broken can be fixed, the Bat corner of the DC verse is the one area that doesn't need writers and editors going all hack and slash on it, it's their only reliable pillar.

[TooFlyToFail]

I'd relaunch We Are Robin, with Tim, Duke, and Harper as the main characters, with the other kids as the soldiers/supporting cast. Duke and Tim would consistently wrestle over leadership, with Harper being the mediating voice. Red Robin, Lark, and Bluebird, would be their titles.

I'd have the new Red Hood and the Outlaws feature Jason and Cass as the main characters, with them as part of the new League of Assassins. It's led by the newly "rehabilitated" Talia Al Ghul, with Jason as her second. They only target evil, and corrupt, people via contracts. Jason is there to make sure she doesn't turn, and to end her if she does. Cass is there to find her father. Eventually, I'd add Nobody II, and Goliath, maybe. The team would be rounded out by a rotating cast of other assassins, or heroes, with each arc, depending on the story surrounding said mission.

Nightwing would deal with a war between the Court of Owls and Order of St. Dumas, with Dick as the Court's champion. Depending if he survives Darkseid War, Owlman (Earth-3) would be the a major player in the background. Honestly, I'd have him be involved with Bruce, and Jason, as well.

The Batman solo will be a B&R book, with Damian as the Robin, and Julia as their techie.

[Hypestyle]

I didn't realize that there are so many ancillary characters at this point. The compressed timeline that "accepts everything" seems to be problematic, since it has multiple successions of Robins but keeps Bruce at roughly 35 in age or so.

I just hope that more racially diverse characters can be kept prominent in the various ongoing series that exist.

[CrazyOldHermit]

Get rid of the concept of a Batfamily. Batman is Bruce Wayne, Robin is Dick Grayson. There's the family.

The end.

[masahikotahara]

I'd wish that the original history of the Robins remained intact; Dick was the first and moved on to become Nightwing, then Jason Todd became Robin (taking the backstory from post-COIE) and died at the hands of the Joker, then Tim Drake (I REALLY like A Lonely Place Of Dying), before moving on to become Red Robin. Stephanie Brown's short stint could be omitted; I don't really mind. Damian should also stay. The stories told about these Robins are (for me) essential to the Batman mythos.

There is an overload of Batbooks, but you could argue that every book has its target group, and if it sells, well, it sells. For me, the amount of books could be reduced.

• Batman
• Detective Comics

-> Bruce Wayne

• Batman & Robin

-> Bruce & Damian Wayne

• Nightwing

-> Dick Grayson

• Red Robin

-> Tim Drake

• Batgirl

-> Barbara Gordon

• Teen Titans

-> Damian as leader of the group

• Catwoman

• Batman/Superman

• Red Hood

-> Jason Todd

[godisawesome]

I don't think the family needs to be fixed; I will say that certain pieces could use a tune up, though.

Keep all the current family members. Batman's world has been constantly expanding since the 40's. We don't need to withdraw all the progress the character and his world have made. Characters don't need functions; characters need good books. Having said that, I'd like to see them embrace a more differentiated aesthetic for at least the 4 main Robins, so keep Damian's hood up more often and get Tim back in a cowl, and maybe trade out Tim's gold elements for silver or something.

And make sure that the younger generation has different personality traits than the previous one; Harper needs to be more than just a pierce-happy version of Steph's old characterization, and Tim, Jason, and Damian should all have radically different voices than Dick, even, and I'd argue especially, in flashback tales.

And instead of fixing the family, I'd redeploy certain books and characters. I don't know if the new Red Hood and the Outlaws book is going to be under Bat-editorial's control, but I think it should be; I think even people who think Scott Lobdell is a consistently good writer (aka the exact opposite of my opinion of the man's skills) would probably think he'd benefit from being under a less chaotic editorial board. Red Robin needs a book that has a strong writer and enough downtime to feature him in civics and at home; his parents being alive serves no good purpose if he can't even hang out with them. And feel free to fiddle with his origin; Lobdell's sucked, no bones about it. The main thing, though, is to get his personality back under better portrayal; if you want him to be a little arrogant, follow FabNic's depiction where it's more restrained and sometimes exposed and earned via a strong career before hand, but he should be a bit of a dork, especially around the ladies.

I'd keep all of our upcoming lineup, but with one or two additions: some kind of book that can focus maximum page time on the nineties kids like Tim, Cass, and Steph, maybe with Harper, and add another book that can be the flashback book full of stories of all the Robins as Robins (yes, Tim as a Robin without the "Red" designation, and probably a few more DickBats and DamianRobin stories). I know some of you guys have a dogmatic belief in a restricted and in my opinion regressive Bat Trinity; so I figure a flash back book would satisfy all of us.

[darkseidpwns]

I always laugh when people go on about culling but manage to retain their own favourite characters. How about lets just kill everyone save Dick and Barbara? or better yet just have Bette Kane return to the Batgirl mantle, either fully go back to the basics or move forward,pointless cherry picking is exactly what is driving DC in to the ground. Most of the characters in the family today came with in the last 15 years including Jason Todd who is arguably as "pointless" as Damian because the family already had an angry man,dark heir,Batman's failure in Jean Paul Valley. There's also the original Helena Bertinelli to consider on that front. Search hard enough and everyone becomes pointless one way or another.

For the record Cass was never adopted,that was just hinted at but fans made a mountain out of a mole hill and Tim was adopted one month before Damian was introduced. Jason was the first to be adopted but died very shortly after while Dick fluctuates between son and ward. So yes it was Damian who fully explored the father/son dynamic without any pretensions or ifs and buts, much as people would not like to admit.

The family is fine where it is. They just need to do something with Cass and Steph,beyond that I dont see anything that requires "fixing". Tim's problems are his own and have nothing to do with the family structure.

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

I see a bunch of resolutions, but it was never said what the problems are...

[Aahz]

I think there are two big problems due to the reboot, the erased history and the not properly reestablished connections between the members.

I think the best way to fix it (without reboots and other drastical changes) would be:
- give Jason, Tim, and Barbara a Robin/Batgirl Year One story (with Bruce and Dick in support roles), preferably written by the same team, to given them back some history, and show their differences and highlight their individual strengths (Annuals would be probably the best way to do it)
- in the next Eternal kind of Event, concentrate just on Bruce and the 4 Robins, and have them all closely work together as a team in the main plot, with roughly the same amount of spot light
- make some cross overs or guest appearances with the regular titles with the characters that have hardly interacted so far (need are imo Bruce+Tim, Dick+Tim, Dick+Jason, Jason+Damian+Talia and nice would be Tim+Barbara, Tim+Steph, Jason+Step+Cass)
- give Tim a mini series, that and develop his relation with his parents a little bit