How to fix Batfamily

[Vic Vega]

This time 5 years ago Batman had a whole organization and now the concept can't accomidate Cass, Harper and Duke?

If you assume that Dick is always going to be doing his own thing, Jason will always lead some version of The Outsiders and that Tim will always lead some version of Young Justice (whether its called that or not), its not that hard to define roles for Batman's remaining assistants.

The dectective, the hacker, the gadget maker and the fighter.

Each of the remaining birds that aren't in their own books should would specialize.

I'd also like to point out that all of the damage done to Tim Drake's character was done when he had his own series. If anything, rebooting Tim to his starting point (when he had Parents to answer to and went to school like a normal kid) would be a vast improvement.

[DGraysonWorldsGreatestSpy]

This time 5 years ago Batman had a whole organization and now the concept can't accomidate Cass, Harper and Duke?

If you assume that Dick is always going to be doing his own thing, Jason will always lead some version of The Outsiders and that Tim will always lead some version of Young Justice (whether its called that or not), its not that hard to define roles for Batman's remaining assistants.

The dectective, the hacker, the gadget maker and the fighter.

Each of the remaining birds that aren't in their own books should would specialize.

I'd also like to point out that all of the damage done to Tim Drake's character was done when he had his own series. If anything, rebooting Tim to his starting point (when he had Parents to answer to and went to school like a normal kid) would be a vast improvement.

And that major organization was for the most part destroyed and most of the characters re-introduced after decades returned to obscurity. Cass is fine while Harper and Duke still have yet to provide a reason to believe they are sustainable over the long term and honestly Snyder gets the blame but not in a negative way. Damian was a success not because he was the son of Bruce Wayne but all the work done by the main guy driving all Batman comics in Morrison while Snyder did not take full ownership over Harper and Duke leaving them to be introduced under a weekly format which constantly struggles to tell a good story and a We Are Robin title that acts like intense training under Batman no longer is a pre-requisite to survive in Gotham. Dick Grayson trained and then passed a test before stepping foot in Gotham but a bunch of untrained even out of shape kids take on Talons? (Even if they were Beserker Talons with non-elite fighting style they are still lab freaks that should stomp any normal kid).

[Aahz]

This time 5 years ago Batman had a whole organization and now the concept can't accomidate Cass, Harper and Duke?

This organization also didn't really worked. And most members were never really fleshed out.

If you assume that Dick is always going to be doing his own thing, Jason will always lead some version of The Outsiders and that Tim will always lead some version of Young Justice (whether its called that or not), its not that hard to define roles for Batman's remaining assistants.

But Bruce smaller stories have been usually solo stories for years by now, and even the respective Robin, hardly appeared in them. And in the big events you will always have the old characters show up, so ther is no real need for more assistants especially when the writers can't even come up with some that really bring something new to the table and with Harper and the we are Robin Kids thats not really the case.

And the number of protagonist you can have in the story is somehow limited, and the writers are already not really able to give every one enough spotlight in the Eternal series (even if 5-7 main characters is still a manageable size).

[SiegePerilous02]

It doesn't affect him all that negatively either. His books still sell.

So they indeed have no impact on him either way and are almost completely pointless as far as he's concerned.

Oh and while we're at it please stop giving characters each other's mantles, it only makes them generic and interchangeable.

I know. Every time I see another character should take over as Nightwing I cringe. I'm not eager for Dick to return to it, at least in the same fashion that he did for the last few years, but no way should anybody else have it.

And if Tim must stay around, give him an identity of his own and not other people's sloppy seconds (he's Robin, Red Robin, Batman Beyond, some have suggested Nightwing and Oracle, etc.)

[mrjames21]

I'd wish that the original history of the Robins remained intact; Dick was the first and moved on to become Nightwing, then Jason Todd became Robin (taking the backstory from post-COIE) and died at the hands of the Joker, then Tim Drake (I REALLY like A Lonely Place Of Dying), before moving on to become Red Robin. Stephanie Brown's short stint could be omitted; I don't really mind. Damian should also stay. The stories told about these Robins are (for me) essential to the Batman mythos.

There is an overload of Batbooks, but you could argue that every book has its target group, and if it sells, well, it sells. For me, the amount of books could be reduced.

• Batman
• Detective Comics

-> Bruce Wayne

• Batman & Robin

-> Bruce & Damian Wayne

• Nightwing

-> Dick Grayson

• Red Robin

-> Tim Drake

• Batgirl

-> Barbara Gordon

• Teen Titans

-> Damian as leader of the group

• Catwoman

• Batman/Superman

• Red Hood

-> Jason Todd

Why would any group let a 10 year old be in charge!!! Let alone a group of super powered teenagers, including 2 who could snap him in half by hand. One of which (Powergirl) has already been established as being one of the smartest kids (young person) on the planet. This whole let Damien follow in Dick/Tim's footsteps as leader of the Titans has gone off the rails.

[mrjames21]

This time 5 years ago Batman had a whole organization and now the concept can't accomidate Cass, Harper and Duke?

If you assume that Dick is always going to be doing his own thing, Jason will always lead some version of The Outsiders and that Tim will always lead some version of Young Justice (whether its called that or not), its not that hard to define roles for Batman's remaining assistants.

The dectective, the hacker, the gadget maker and the fighter.

Each of the remaining birds that aren't in their own books should would specialize.

I'd also like to point out that all of the damage done to Tim Drake's character was done when he had his own series. If anything, rebooting Tim to his starting point (when he had Parents to answer to and went to school like a normal kid) would be a vast improvement.

Pre-New 52 Tim was the best version of Robin in my opinion. Not only did he earn the job jumping through Bruce's hoops, he made his own "Batman Training" journey that no other Robin did. Tim left and trained with some of the best martial artists in the world to add to what he learned from Bruce. Learning from and surviving the training that Lady Shiva (who was #1 at that point) put him through made him a very formidable hand to hand combatant. The reason why the animated Robins have a Bo staff is Tim. It's the weapon he chose when Shiva taught him because it was Non-Lethal.

[darkseidpwns]

Why would any group let a 10 year old be in charge!!! Let alone a group of super powered teenagers, including 2 who could snap him in half by hand. One of which (Powergirl) has already been established as being one of the smartest kids (young person) on the planet. This whole let Damien follow in Dick/Tim's footsteps as leader of the Titans has gone off the rails.

Robin leads the Titans,that's how it is and no one cares about this new Powergirl.

[Baseman]

Robin leads the Titans,that's how it is and no one cares about this new Powergirl.

Disagree.The Robin title shouldn't automatically grant a character a leadership role.

[darkseidpwns]

Disagree.The Robin title shouldn't automatically grant a character a leadership role.

Yes it should.

[mrjames21]

Yes it should.

So, you would let a 10 year old tell you what to do?

[Baseman]

Yes it should.

Care to explain why?

[Kurtzberg]

Yes it should.

No, it shouldn't. I like Damian, but I don't think leading the Titans should just be handed to him because he's Robin, he should have to earn it or be surly foil for the leader. The Han Solo to the Luke Skywalker, the Wolverine to the Cyclops, the Hawkeye to the Captain America.

[DGraysonWorldsGreatestSpy]

It should not and really would do nothing but further make Damian arrogant. The Titans are who they are because of Dick Grayson's Robin and I honestly believe it should have been left with him and let Tim/Damian do Young Justice. Like someone said earlier, Stop passing around identities, titles, & teams like they are interchangeable. if Tim and/or Damian join the Titans it should not be as leader since if Dick is not leading Donna Troy/Starfire/Pre-52 Arsenal are more than qualified.

[JasonTodd428]

Yes it should.

No, it really shouldn't especially given Damian's age and relative inexperience as the leader of a group. Being Robin doesn't automatically mean that you are "a leader" and it doesn't mean that other members of the team aren't as capable of being leader either. So unless they are going to create an entirely new team and Damian just happens to be the most experienced one there it doesn't make sense for him to automatically be the leader. The older Titans would chafe at it for one, in fact they did when he was briefly made a part of the team before the reboot. Honestly it would work much better if he had someone mentor him before giving him the post and if we see him developing a relationship with the team first.

[Knight of DC]

Hell, I'd make the argument that Tim being a leader because "Robin" is a terrible idea as well. I love Tim. Love him to death. He's a terrible leader. If any of the YJ4 should lead a team, it's Cassie (when not being written terribly).

As for the thread question: Really, just get creative teams that actually care about these characters and get why people like them. Tim definitely needs to distance himself from Titans for a bit. Hell, wouldn't mind seeing him take over Detective Comics for a bit ala Rucka/Williams Batwoman.