Does Superman HAVE TO have super intelligence?

[Jim Kelly]

he doesn't become clark kent, he is clark kent

Does your clark kent wear glasses? If he does then he's pretending to be someone he's not. He becomes a character to function in the workplace. Just as we all do. We all become the characters we have to be for the roles we play in life. We don't all put on glasses, but we put on fronts.

[The World]

disagree completely. it's not like superman was raised as kryptonian, now amazons it depends on the version. on jimenez WW she was a scientist too but mostly of WW post crisis she is a smart woman but not genius or supersmart

Superman being raised on Krypton or not doesn't change the fact that he does descend from a hyper advanced race and does face threats that should require him to constantly better himself to defeat them, same with Diana.

Using that logic shouldn't all of those heroes be smarter than the also human Lex Luthor, who is considered much smarter than all of them? Why/how is human Lex a threat to a super intelligent being with access to advanced alien tech? Besides if all of those heroes were smarter than Batman what use is he to the League? Has no powers and isn't as smart as the rest of us doesn't sound like someone the JL would invite to their team. His having no powers is why he has to be one of the smarter heroes.

He needs to be super smart to combat a napoleon complex? Doesn't sound like a very good reason.

[Tayswift]

Superman being raised on Krypton or not doesn't change the fact that he does descend from a hyper advanced race and does face threats that should require him to constantly better himself to defeat them, same with Diana.

that means little. My mother didn't made into high school and I'm considered very smart by my friends and teachers. He wasn't raised being kryptonian.

Does your clark kent wear glasses? If he does then he's pretending to be someone he's not. He becomes a character to function in the workplace. Just as we all do. We all become the characters we have to be for the roles we play in life. We don't all put on glasses, but we put on fronts.

sure he does. I know he puts another persona to interact with people that can't know his secret.

[Johnny Thunders!]

It doesn't matter to me if he wasn't raised Kryptonian. He's still Superman, he's not just Jonathan Kent. Jor El couldn't emit radiation with his eyes and neither could the Kents. Superman excels beyond his parents.

I also don't get this need for everyone to have their niche ability. What other job would turn down a group of geniuses? Does any company turn down people at the door for being too smart because they already have 1 smart person on staff.

That's why I brought up the Avengers.Hank Pym, Hank McCoy, Tony Stark, T'Challa, all geniuses and all Avengers. No one is redundant.

[The World]

that means little. My mother didn't made into high school and I'm considered very smart by my friends and teachers. He wasn't raised being kryptonian.

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. You're mom is still just a regular human being with the all the physical capacity and potential of a regular human being. Superman's species went on a completely different evolutionary path than that of the human race which is described in the early issues of Action Comics as making him a Hercules of strength and a genius of intellect. But to go even further than that in his childhood he frequently traveled to the far off future with the Legion of Superhero where he was frequently put through trials and tribulations he would have to learn from while also being introduced to inexplicable marvels and wonders of the far off advanced future. Not to mention the various inexplicable struggles he would later go on in his adulthood which should further cause him to further develop his intelligence to appropriately combat them, things that far exceed the day to day ongoings in Gotham. As you go through life you're forced to learn and adapt to succeed, Superman often goes up against the some of the strangest and craziest things imaginable he would by nature have to improve himself constantly and seeing as his powers are powered by outside means his brain would have to be one of his sharpest instruments. To say otherwise would be poor storytelling.

Also you and your mother are a generation removed from one another; not nearly enough time to have any meaningful evolutionary development.

[ManSinha]

well they couldn't even save their own planet *shrug*

If they had we would not be having this conversation

And to an extent it speaks to arrogance - which is diametrically opposed to Clark's humility

Ergo - "I cannot be wrong because I know everything" mind set

[ManSinha]

Doom is somewhat emotionally stunted, but even he has superior intelligence to Lex. If Superman is going to be super intelligent, Lex has to stop coasting and get over some his mental mental blind spots and start really being serious what being ruthlessly efficient and stop falling into super villain cliches that could be avoided if he read the Evil Overlord list:

I remember a pre Crisis imaginary story called "The Death of Superman" or some such in which Lex pretended to be a good guy, developed a cure for cancer - got a satellite to himself to work on other cures and lured Superman in there and killed him with a Kryptonite chamber - this to my mind, was littered with instances of Superman being more farm boy than a super hero in as much he trusted - okay that was debatable - but to think he had no backup plan - etc etc

[dumbduck]

You really think Superman has it worst than Diana? And where are you getting the idea that the market is full of BM/WW fans?

Right now she doesn't. But Clark has been even worse in his own books. Clark isn't perfect, neither is she. The narrative works if both Clark and Diana are inexperienced heroes compared to their pre52 counterparts. If we start getting post 2000 pre52 Diana with dumb farmboy Clark (like what happened in Sensation #48) the character doesn't stand a chance.

Dispenser and Agniwolf responded for me. In Sensation Comics there were 2 or 3 BM/WW stories plus 3 or 4 with Batman's world, rogues, etc. SM/WW fans have... Mark Waid. Maybe. Kingdom Come is 20 years, who knows what he thinks nowadays.

[Jim Kelly]

I also don't get this need for everyone to have their niche ability. What other job would turn down a group of geniuses? Does any company turn down people at the door for being too smart because they already have 1 smart person on staff.

It's a byproduct of the DCU becoming one big Legion of Super-Heroes in the 21st century. There can't be too much duplication of abilities, because each team member has to have something to contribute to the team. Otherwise, some characters become redundant.

But I subscribe to my BONANZA theory of fiction. On BONANZA, there were lots of episodes where one of the cast would carry the whole show. Adam would get locked up in jail in a strange town. Little Joe would be all alone on the Ponderosa and afraid he was going mad from rabies. Hoss would be courting a new sweetheart. Once one of them was in the spotlight, their characters would take on aspects of the others. Adam would have more of Little Joe's vulnerability. Hoss would have more of Adam's intelligence. Little Joe would show more of Hoss's strength. But when it was an episode where all of the Cartwrights were featured equally, then they conformed more to their stereotypes--Adam the charming cowhand with a sharp wit, Hoss the strong but not so smart fool, Little Joe the hotheaded kid who acts before he thinks.

When the DC heroes have to work together and keep crossing over into each others books--then they have to each stay within the boundaries of their alotted role. If the DC heroes can inhabit their own world, then they can become more competent in more areas of expertise.

[dumbduck]

I'd just like to point out how things work: I said I have no faith in DC/Warner/Writers reigning in the Batgod. But I actually don't want Batman to lose any IQ points.

The problem beggins when Superman fans don't have a right to something that was pointed out at his inception:

which is described in the early issues of Action Comics as making him a Hercules of strength and a genius of intellect.

And that evolved organicaly during the gold/silver and bronze ages:

But to go even further than that in his childhood he frequently traveled to the far off future with the Legion of Superhero where he was frequently put through trials and tribulations he would have to learn from while also being introduced to inexplicable marvels and wonders of the far off advanced future. Not to mention the various inexplicable struggles he would later go on in his adulthood which should further cause him to further develop his intelligence to appropriately combat them, things that far exceed the day to day ongoings in Gotham. As you go through life you're forced to learn and adapt to succeed, Superman often goes up against the some of the strangest and craziest things imaginable he would by nature have to improve himself constantly and seeing as his powers are powered by outside means his brain would have to be one of his sharpest instruments. To say otherwise would be poor storytelling.

[dumbduck]

Let me take a leaf from this thread:

this is not the character i signed up for

The character I expected to read from november 2013 was this:


https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/3...read=130289820

This:

https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/4083500.html



Like a curse, as soon as I got aboard DC reverted to making Superman a dumb brick. Batman, Veritas, Hiro doing his thinking for him. I'd be satisfied with back and forth, but no, he only listens to them.

...

They rebooted the whole universe to revitalize him, and after 2 years their answer was to revert things and make him more dependent on Batman?

No independent character can survive this.

So, yeah, LOL. I do feel victim of a fraudulent advertisement campaign.

And we get to the end of this mess with Superman needing people to point out to him when there's no sun.

[DieHard200904]

Yes, to an extent, he should. I mean, in Justice League: Throne of Atlantis he was the one in the mansion who was able to spot the shredded paper notes in the fish tank and reassemble them quickly for Bruce and the JL to analyze. I would just say if anything to make him have more brains than he did in JLU and just make him solo sometimes with any other starring characters reduced to cameos at most. The whole making Superman apparently always with other characters is what really downgrades his intelligence level, more than most other matters. I would welcome a vacation from Superman in Crossover Events, at this point.

[DieHard200904]

Let me take a leaf from this thread:

this is not the character i signed up for

The character I expected to read from november 2013 was this:


https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/3...read=130289820

This:

https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/4083500.html



Like a curse, as soon as I got aboard DC reverted to making Superman a dumb brick. Batman, Veritas, Hiro doing his thinking for him. I'd be satisfied with back and forth, but no, he only listens to them.

...

They rebooted the whole universe to revitalize him, and after 2 years their answer was to revert things and make him more dependent on Batman?

No independent character can survive this.

So, yeah, LOL. I do feel victim of a fraudulent advertisement campaign.

And we get to the end of this mess with Superman needing people to point out to him when there's no sun.

TBH, it feels like only a few writers get him, I mean he was written off in non-canon as extremely tactical and intelligent in Red Son and All-Star Superman, makes me scratch my head as to why Morrison and Millar and few others seem to get him, and those that do aren't available to "bail out" Superman every time.

Seriously, it should be required to read at least the Action Comics origin from 2011 to be allowed to write him.

[Jim Kelly]

Reminds me of the classic The Girl Who Didn't Believe in Superman from SUPERMAN No.96 (March '55) by Bill Finger, Wayne Boring and Stan Kaye.

[Superlad93]

Let me take a leaf from this thread:
The character I expected to read from november 2013 was this:

Then lucky you because....

Flash is a smart guy to be sure but you wouldn't call him a super genius, but this feat right here is well within this ability. It's not being a genius. It's actually just using super speed to learn and put a skill in your short term memory to use in that moment.

This:

This doesn't even really classify as "smarter than other people" genius. Clark is able to figure out what the Multitude really is simply because he knows of the 5th dimension (Mrs. N shows him her real form) and he has a head start. He know that there is a trick to it's attack and a trick to beating them. He know they aren't as they seem. This is Clark being a clever and resourceful dude. Like a good reporter Clark could have VERY likely have been reading up on the equipment and the mission to Mars even before he went to save them (very likely he'd have to do a write up on it at some point).

My point is Clark Kent aka Superman can be a clever dude--the clever dude in that last scan in fact. He doesn't NEED to be a genius to do these clever and awesome things.

Like a curse, as soon as I got aboard DC reverted to making Superman a dumb brick. Batman, Veritas, Hiro doing his thinking for him. I'd be satisfied with back and forth, but no, he only listens to them.

What is SO bad about Superman deferring to experts and people who basically live for science and engineering. I wasn't offended when Morrison established that Ray Palmer was the person that Superman deferred to when he was recovering Kryptonian artifacts from the miniaturized Kandro. Basically it's establishing that Superman got the new ice fortress and all the Kryptonian things in it because of Ray Palmer. And just to reiterate Morrison established this.

I'm more than okay with Clark going to his worlds science guys and gals when he needs their input. Great time for interpersonal relationship building and exploration, and it stops his world from looking only as big as his apartment, his fortress, and his job.

Hamilton from the animated show was such a great character. Just by Clark existing it lit this fire and almost (at times) childlike curiosity in Hamilton. Every time Superman brought him a new scientific conundrum it expanded Hamilton's character. Then we saw they fall. Hamilton eventual betrays Superman's trust and it's a gut punch. Even before that when Superman almost forces Hamilton to help Kara and we see Hamilton's face it conveys so much. Having him in that role of science councilor allowed for so much character and story work. Plus you have the whole Superman inspires people just by doing his thing and helping people. Just like in All Star where he saves the girl and is then saved by her future decedent, or how John Henry becomes a Superman in his own right because of Superman's example.

Superman basically reaps the benefits of his simple kindness. The "scientist friend" that Superman looks to is one of the embodiment of that idea. So it doesn't bother me personally.