will the Vertigo universe come back through "DC Rebirth"?

[flex lamont]

Half of me hopes against hope that this upcoming DC Rebirth announcement tells us that the shared Vertigo universe is coming back, while the other half hopes that they don't announce that because it would never be as cool as it was in the 90s when Books of Magic, Hellblazer, Shade the Changing Man, Lucifer, Sandman, Sandman Mystery Theater, etc. etc. all shared the same basic universe.

The current Vertigo books are awesome, no doubt about that. But I miss the shared universe days at Vertigo...

Oh well, we'll always have the back issues.

[RobinFan4880]

Some of the characters have appeal but it is very niche. Still, I don't think they will be sent off to Vertigo any time soon.

[Flash Gordon]

The world of the Vertigo books never went anywhere...

[t hedge coke]

Half of me hopes against hope that this upcoming DC Rebirth announcement tells us that the shared Vertigo universe is coming back, while the other half hopes that they don't announce that because it would never be as cool as it was in the 90s when Books of Magic, Hellblazer, Shade the Changing Man, Lucifer, Sandman, Sandman Mystery Theater, etc. etc. all shared the same basic universe.

The current Vertigo books are awesome, no doubt about that. But I miss the shared universe days at Vertigo...

Oh well, we'll always have the back issues.

They all still do share the same basic universe, inasmuch as they exist in new comics, or the old comics still exist.

But, then, even at the time, I thought the half-split with "normal" DC was silly as anything more than an imprint.

[flex lamont]

Yeah, I agree that the days of DC characters getting their own spot in the Vertigo-verse is probably over. With the exception of Lucifer, who almost doesn't count since he was a spin off of a Vertigo book in the first place.

I'm not sure about how niche the Vertigo characters are, though... I think there would be a lot of demand for them if presented to people outside the superhero comics community. But recently DC doesn't really seem to be handling that kind of aggressive marketing very well, so that would probably never happen. The fact that the Vertigo-verse did actually survive for at least five years before splintering off into separate stories like Preacher and Y the Last Man says to me that they could make the Vertigo-verse happen again if they really wanted to... To me it is all about how much the people at Vertigo want to do something like that, and how much the DC office people want to give up control on their magical characters...

[t hedge coke]

The fact that the Vertigo-verse did actually survive for at least five years before splintering off into separate stories like Preacher and Y the Last Man says to me that they could make the Vertigo-verse happen again if they really wanted to... To me it is all about how much the people at Vertigo want to do something like that, and how much the DC office people want to give up control on their magical characters...

It didn't, though. Vertigo, as an imprint, repurposed a couple DC ongoings, but was otherwise composed of creator-owned works from the beginning, the first few mostly from a Disney comics company that didn't come off.

And, Vertigo is/was just DC. Nobody was giving up control of anything, really. Vertigo has always been simply an imprint of DC.

[missingmarch]

Image is the new Vertigo. It's a bit sad, since Vertigo for awhile was putting out some absolutely incredible stuff, but ultimately it's okay, because the high bar that Vertigo set in its heyday is now being carried on by other publishers.

These days, if you want good superhero type books, you can read Valiant, and if you want quality stories of other types, you can read Image and Dark Horse. You only really read DC or Marvel if you need to read about what Superman/Spiderman/etc are doing.

[Prisoner 6655321]

I dunno.While I think that the Vertigo / Wildstorm elements have suffered post-flashpoint it seems to me that they have needlessly so. The Vertigo elements came from the DCU, separating only because... I don't really get the logic but maybe they just didn't want the sometimes horribly dark elements to be associated with the lighter ones in the DCU proper which I feel is a bad approach. DC (imo) is a very dark and a very bright place depending on the circumstances. To me, the DCU is just as much Sandman / Hellblazer / Swamp Thing as it is Superman / LoSH / Young Justice and trying to pin it down to one "feel" is only a detriment to potential. I guess I feel the same way about Wildstorm to some extent. While it's origins lie elsewhere and while pretty much anything of substance that came out of it was when they had their own earth I'm not really sure why this is the case. Maybe it would have all worked better if Wildstorm was earth-2 and the JSA was in the main earth's history but there's no reason why the concepts shouldn't work in the DCU and I can only suspect that it's because of the same mentality which brought upon the DC / Vertigo separation in the first place. I just don't get why at the end of the day people feel that extremes (bright / dark, optimistic / pessimistic) can't exist in the same fictional universe when we live in real a world, with more constraints, that still made individuals as varied as Josef Mengele and Fred Rogers.

I would kinda like to see maybe 1/3 of the line split between those two elements though and I'd kinda like them to be held to the same sorts of standards they were before as opposed to after Flashpoint. These sorts of books are more "niche" (by in large niches which are not currently being served despite any number of quality Image / indy books) but they also have dedicated fanbases that can be brought in to the other titles. If you really dig books like Planetary, The Authority, Swamp Thing, Animal Man, Hellblazer, Books of Magic, Sandman, et al... and you're getting those books you might also want some tights and capes in your diet. If that's the case, it makes the DCU the most appealing option because you're already invested in it.

Image is the new Vertigo. It's a bit sad, since Vertigo for awhile was putting out some absolutely incredible stuff, but ultimately it's okay, because the high bar that Vertigo set in its heyday is now being carried on by other publishers.

These days, if you want good superhero type books, you can read Valiant, and if you want quality stories of other types, you can read Image and Dark Horse. You only really read DC or Marvel if you need to read about what Superman/Spiderman/etc are doing.

Not for me. While I appreciate what Valiant does it doesn't make the sorts of superhero books I want and it probably wouldn't be in their best interest to do so.

[flex lamont]

Image is the new Vertigo. It's a bit sad, since Vertigo for awhile was putting out some absolutely incredible stuff, but ultimately it's okay, because the high bar that Vertigo set in its heyday is now being carried on by other publishers.

This brings a tear both happy and sad to my eye. You are exactly right.

These days, if you want good superhero type books, you can read Valiant, and if you want quality stories of other types, you can read Image and Dark Horse. You only really read DC or Marvel if you need to read about what Superman/Spiderman/etc are doing.

Yes, all of this is *so* true as well. And I do love Valiant and Image and Dark Horse. And yes, reading DC or Marvel at this point is almost entirely like asking about what your relatives are doing with their lives instead of like reading engaging stories.

[flex lamont]

I dunno.While I think that the Vertigo / Wildstorm elements have suffered post-flashpoint it seems to me that they have needlessly so.

I kind of felt that the New 52 versions of Constantine, I Vampire, Swamp Thing, etc. started out really well. Surprisingly well, actually. I'm not sure why a lot of those titles got cancelled. Low sales? Seems weird. Seems like the fault of the marketing department not actively seeking new readership rather than the quality of the books. But maybe this is a bit off topic...

The Vertigo elements came from the DCU, separating only because... I don't really get the logic but maybe they just didn't want the sometimes horribly dark elements to be associated with the lighter ones in the DCU proper which I feel is a bad approach.

I *completely* get what you are saying here, but I think that the separation was good from the standpoint of demarking a clear "Mature Readers" label so kids didn't pick the stuff up. I mean, I did, and I was fifteen at the time I first found, say, Sandman Mystery Theater. I guess that stuff was no more "adult" than the Stephen King books I had already been reading for years, ha ha.

But I can see the logic in terms of at least sending a message that, hey, these books have nudity, sexual themes, etc. in them. It makes sense from that angle.

Also, I can't help but wonder if the separation was also a little bit about giving the Vertigo editor more space and authority to work on her own. I heard she was really the one who brought in all that new British Invasion talent and really set the tone for the whole line. If it is true that having her own line made that possible, and if it is true that Image basically exists the way it does because Vertigo set the bar for that kind of mature audiences storytelling, then the split off of the Vertigo imprint wound up being the best possible thing that could have happened for comics in general.

But, I don't know if those things are true, and maybe I'll never know.

And I do think that in a perfect world, DC could have all those titles operating under one banner. They kind of almost did in the first year or so of the New 52. That New 52 Swamp Thing and Animal Man thing was awesome.

[JasonTodd428]

Image is the new Vertigo. It's a bit sad, since Vertigo for awhile was putting out some absolutely incredible stuff, but ultimately it's okay, because the high bar that Vertigo set in its heyday is now being carried on by other publishers.

In my opinion Vertigo is currently putting out incredible stuff and I'm actually reading more from them then from Image because of that. Image just isn't doing it for me these days but each to their own I guess. I do really enjoy Black Magick and Velvet though.

These days, if you want good superhero type books, you can read Valiant, and if you want quality stories of other types, you can read Image and Dark Horse. You only really read DC or Marvel if you need to read about what Superman/Spiderman/etc are doing.

I really love Valiant's books and I'm getting a lot of them but I certainly am not reading the DC books I am because I'm "needing to read about what Superman Etc are doing". I think your being a bit to simplistic there. It's not as black and white as that since people read things for different reasons so it can't be narrowed down to just that one reason. Also both DC and Marvel do have quality books in their output, it's just that those types of books get lost in the crowd and end up not having a large enough audience to sustain them long term. Personally, I'd like nothing better then to see the Big 2 put out quality books across the board from their big titles down to their more niche characters but I doubt that's going to happen unless Rebirth is DC's attempt at starting to do so. Guess we'll see.

[Tetragrammar]

I think we'll get a "Rebirth" of sorts with some new Sandman spinoffs or minis, perhaps to accompany the new Lucifer series.

[t hedge coke]

You only really read DC or Marvel if you need to read about what Superman/Spiderman/etc are doing.

I know you probably don't mean to be condescending, but that is pretty condescending, especially since, it's verifiably not true for a lot of people reading Marvel or DC comics (especially considering that they don't just publish new monthly comics, but an entire catalogue of reprint and collected material).

[Lee Stone]

I really loved Vertigo at the beginning...
For me, it was defined by Neil Gaiman's Death and Sandman (and Books of Magic), Peter Milligan's Shade and Enigma, Nancy Collins' (and Alan Moore's) Swamp Thing, Garth Ennis' Hellblazer, Jamie Delano's (and Grant Morrison's) Animal Man, Rachel Pollack's (and Morrison's) Doom Patrol and Matt Wagner's Sandman Mystery Theatre.

And Chris Bachalo's work on Death and Shade was my favorite art during that phase.

[Lee Stone]

I dunno.While I think that the Vertigo / Wildstorm elements have suffered post-flashpoint it seems to me that they have needlessly so. The Vertigo elements came from the DCU, separating only because... I don't really get the logic but maybe they just didn't want the sometimes horribly dark elements to be associated with the lighter ones in the DCU proper which I feel is a bad approach. DC (imo) is a very dark and a very bright place depending on the circumstances. To me, the DCU is just as much Sandman / Hellblazer / Swamp Thing as it is Superman / LoSH / Young Justice and trying to pin it down to one "feel" is only a detriment to potential. I guess I feel the same way about Wildstorm to some extent. While it's origins lie elsewhere and while pretty much anything of substance that came out of it was when they had their own earth I'm not really sure why this is the case. Maybe it would have all worked better if Wildstorm was earth-2 and the JSA was in the main earth's history but there's no reason why the concepts shouldn't work in the DCU and I can only suspect that it's because of the same mentality which brought upon the DC / Vertigo separation in the first place. I just don't get why at the end of the day people feel that extremes (bright / dark, optimistic / pessimistic) can't exist in the same fictional universe when we live in real a world, with more constraints, that still made individuals as varied as Josef Mengele and Fred Rogers.

I would kinda like to see maybe 1/3 of the line split between those two elements though and I'd kinda like them to be held to the same sorts of standards they were before as opposed to after Flashpoint. These sorts of books are more "niche" (by in large niches which are not currently being served despite any number of quality Image / indy books) but they also have dedicated fanbases that can be brought in to the other titles. If you really dig books like Planetary, The Authority, Swamp Thing, Animal Man, Hellblazer, Books of Magic, Sandman, et al... and you're getting those books you might also want some tights and capes in your diet. If that's the case, it makes the DCU the most appealing option because you're already invested in it.



Not for me. While I appreciate what Valiant does it doesn't make the sorts of superhero books I want and it probably wouldn't be in their best interest to do so.

I actually kinda liked Vertigo being in its own corner because it lent a more isolated feel to the stories, which is a necessary component of horror, mystery and thrillers.
Bringing them over to the DCU proper with New52 made them feel more to me like adventure stories and less atmospheric. Especially when they throw them into cross-overs.
Justice League Dark had a superb writer, a fantastic artist and an amazing cast...
But it was just that: JUSTICE LEAGUE Dark. It was sort of like Paris Hilton or Jessica Simpson trying to pass off as a mysterious and moody Morticia or Elvira with floodlights on a glitzy stage.
Sadly, with the talent and characters involved, I think it could have been one of the best Vertigo titles in years and may even still be running today. If only it was a Vertigo book.