Most overrated / Most undevalued Graphic Novels & Collections

[ZenAmako]

Probably 'cause its been done better in other media However, with Jodorowski and Manara, everyone should at least check it out

Also, the book (the Dark Horse edition) seems to have gone of print fairly quickly. I was interested in checking out Borgias, but when I went to look for a copy, it was only available from third party sellers at inflated prices. Never actually saw it in a store.

[TomSlick]

I would say Mage improves a lot as the series goes on. The first few chapters are a bit crude, much like Wagner's early Grendel issues. However, the art becomes much cleaner when Sam Kieth starts inking Wagner's pencils, and Wagner starts doing an amazing job with the colors starting at around chapter 10 (note that the reprint from Image has been recolored and you lose the original hand painted colors). The writing also improves--the entirety of chapter 14 is a conversation between just two characters, and it's never less than compelling. The double sized conclusion is full of action and feels very cinematic. Actually, according to a letter printed in the back of one of the original Comico issues, the series was voted "most improved series" by some publication at the time when the series was at issue #9 or #10.

I was referring to the second volume. Where Wagner changes course and all of a sudden the characters are linked to mythological heroes. The story is just bad. I used to want him to finish it but now I don't care.

I believe Wagner was 17 when he wrote those initial black and white Grednel stories and while crude they were at least readable. His later Grendel work - Eppy, Orion, etc - was genius.

[Roland1580]

Overrated: most stuff from Marvel, Annihilation etc were one of the worst books I've ever read.

Ahaha. High five, bro!

[Balakin]

I was referring to the second volume. Where Wagner changes course and all of a sudden the characters are linked to mythological heroes. The story is just bad. I used to want him to finish it but now I don't care.

I believe Wagner was 17 when he wrote those initial black and white Grednel stories and while crude they were at least readable. His later Grendel work - Eppy, Orion, etc - was genius.

so would you say if I really liked Grendel vs The Shadow I should definitely get the Grendel omnibuses even though they are undersized?

[ZenAmako]

I was referring to the second volume. Where Wagner changes course and all of a sudden the characters are linked to mythological heroes. The story is just bad. I used to want him to finish it but now I don't care.

I believe Wagner was 17 when he wrote those initial black and white Grednel stories and while crude they were at least readable. His later Grendel work - Eppy, Orion, etc - was genius.

Okay, I see. I'm not sure if krylox was referring to all of Mage: The Hero Discovered ("Mage I") as "the first volume," or if he meant the first volume of Mage I (that's what I thought he meant). Mage I does improve later on. Mage: The Hero Defined ("Mage II") is a different beast. I think Mage II is interesting if you're a fan of Wagner's Grendel work because it's sort of about his time living in Canada and working with people like Bernie Mireault ("Kirby Hero" in the story), Joe Matt ("Joe Phat"), and John K. Snyder III ("John J. Strider the Xth") on Grendel, the friendships, collaborations, and creative differences that came out of that, and how he met his now-wife. I'm guessing Mage III (if/when it surfaces) will be about married life, he'll have a son who will follow in his footsteps, etc. While Mage II may have seemed like a step back artistically (and I will agree that it was not on the same level as Mage I), it seemed like a very personal story, and I'm not sure how much he could have changed/improved it. It's been over 15 years since Mage II, so I'm ready to catch up with Kevin Matchstick whenever Wagner is ready to continue telling his story.

[ZenAmako]

so would you say if I really liked Grendel vs The Shadow I should definitely get the Grendel omnibuses even though they are undersized?

If you liked Grendel vs. The Shadow, I would recommend picking up the Grendel: Behold the Devil hardcover. It's relatively cheap, and it looks good next to the Grendel vs. The Shadow HC (assuming you have the Grendel vs. The Shadow HC). Wagner's style didn't change much between Behold the Devil and Grendel vs. The Shadow. However, Behold the Devil is included in the first omnibus, if you would prefer to have more content in a smaller size. Personally, I went for the HCs of all of the arcs that have HC editions, but not all of them do (I wish there were a HC of the Eppy/Orion arc). The first omnibus volume also contains a lot of short stories from the Grendel: Black, White and Red and Grendel: Red, White and Black series, and I wasn't a fan of all of those (the one by Tim Sale is the standout).

[TomSlick]

so would you say if I really liked Grendel vs The Shadow I should definitely get the Grendel omnibuses even though they are undersized?

Yes.

If you liked Grendel vs. The Shadow, I would recommend picking up the Grendel: Behold the Devil hardcover. It's relatively cheap, and it looks good next to the Grendel vs. The Shadow HC (assuming you have the Grendel vs. The Shadow HC). Wagner's style didn't change much between Behold the Devil and Grendel vs. The Shadow. However, Behold the Devil is included in the first omnibus, if you would prefer to have more content in a smaller size. Personally, I went for the HCs of all of the arcs that have HC editions, but not all of them do (I wish there were a HC of the Eppy/Orion arc). The first omnibus volume also contains a lot of short stories from the Grendel: Black, White and Red and Grendel: Red, White and Black series, and I wasn't a fan of all of those (the one by Tim Sale is the standout).

This is a pretty good summation. First Volume is Hunter Rose and then it gradually moves on.

Balakin, note that once you get further along, the stories start leaning more political, world-building, etc., and the concept of Grendel takes on a while new meaning.
If you enjoy it, then I'd recommend hunting down the Grendel Tales tpbs as well although they're not by Wagner.

[Hellboydce]

so would you say if I really liked Grendel vs The Shadow I should definitely get the Grendel omnibuses even though they are undersized?

i tried them, struggled through the first one didn't bother with the second, just couldn't get into them, which surprised me as i have really like the other Wagner stuff i have read

[Hellboydce]

Found a few books lately that I didn't really like or actually quite disliked despite of the huge amount of praise they get. Namely:
Black Panther by Christpher Priest (gave up after 5 issues)
Miracleman by Moore (gave up at the end of the first hc during the warpsmith stuff)
Planet and world war Hulk (PH was irritating and a drag, WWH was much better and easier to follow but ultimately forgettable).

I've expected to LOVE BP and Miracleman and they just made me angry especially BP.

On the other hand I've started reading Bacchus again and enjoying it much more this time.

Damn it, i have 4 Complete collections to get through

[camilo1292]

Overrated:

Matt Fraction's Hawkeye
Remender's Black Science
Vaughn's Saga

All of them are enjoyable but far from all the hype that everybody has on them.

Underrated:
Daredevil: Love and War by Frank Miller and Bill Sienkiewicz

[The Whovian]

Moore is more miss than hit for me, I have enjoyed Top Ten, LoEG and Providence but with the rest of his books I've not been as enamoured as most. Watchmen was good, but I didn't like the ending and to be fair I never read the Pirate story so I have no idea how that ties in. Tom Strong was dull as was Necronomicon. I think I gave up about half way through V for Vendetta and The Nemo Trilogy was not as good as the main book.

Ellis is a master of the single issue stories but in a world of longer paced books his stories just aren't given enough space to breath.

I'm sure I'll give Planetary a go again some day, but not for a while.

I should amend my statement above where I said I don't care for Moore's writing at all. I really, REALLY like his Captain Britain run. But other than that, there's not much of his that I do like.

[The Whovian]

Overrated:

Matt Fraction's Hawkeye
Remender's Black Science
Vaughn's Saga

All of them are enjoyable but far from all the hyped that everybody has on them.

Underrated:
Daredevil: Love and War by Frank Miller and Bill Sienkiewicz

Agreed. I don't get why everyone likes his Hawkeye. I tried reading it twice and just couldn't get into it.

I think Saga is bad. Don't understand the love it gets.

And Black Science is good, but not great. At least not as awesome as some think. But again, that's just my opinion. If someone loves it, then that's great.

[camilo1292]

Agreed. I don't get why everyone likes his Hawkeye. I tried reading it twice and just couldn't get into it.

I think Saga is bad. Don't understand the love it gets.

And Black Science is good, but not great. At least not as awesome as some think. But again, that's just my opinion. If someone loves it, then that's great.

Exactly.

Talking about Fractions' hawkeye what i never couldn't get into were all those kate bishop issues.

[Balakin]

Thanks for the Grendel recommendations. While I'm all for hardcovers, the cheapest Behold the devil I've found is around the same price as the first omnibus so I will probably go for the omni.

Hellboydce: I tihnk Grendel might been a bit too old for your taste, at least the first volume. But if I remember correctly you liked Shadow Year one. If that ws the case I would recommend reading Grendel vs Shadow.

[Balakin]

Damn it, i have 4 Complete collections to get through

I had one but couldn't finish it. The art was horrible and even though it improved later at that point I just didn't care about the book. The tone felt very forced and the story progressed very slowly with unnecessary time jumps that just made it even more stretched out and had an irritating effect since it didn't serve any purpose other than giving some "funny" dialogue to the pathetic POV character.