Thought about Pre-New 52 Superman in New 52 World.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

It's something that could have worked but I think has quickly turned into a wasted opportunity, and the more you think about it the worse Pre-Flashpoint Superman looks, because as people have said there are so many times where Pre-Flashpoint Superman should have gotten involved and Jurgens hasn't done a good job of justifying why he wasn't.

He's gotten progressively worse in the Lois & Clark book itself as well. In the most recent issue, he says that whatever he has to do to beat Blanque is justified. Not only does this make Pre-Flashpoint Superman look bad, but it doesn't even make sense in the context of the book as issue #2 established that there is a limit as to how far Superman is willing to go to stop a threat.

Attempts to make him look good, come across poorly. Once again, in the most recent issue we discover that this Superman has been keeping people in his fortress that are in need of help. They can't leave the fortress because they would die outside of a limited space created by Superman. Superman says he's looking for a place they can survive and this is something that should make him look good, but it doesn't work because not only have we not seen this Superman looking for places for these characters but he's also now doing them a disservice by not asking for help from New 52 inhabitants.

When Lois & Clark was announced with Jurgens as the writer, I was disappointed but still interested in seeing Pre-Flashpoint Superman again. I initially thought it was decent series once it started, but the more I've thought about it and with each new issue Jurgens has channeled into Superman some of the worst aspects of the character from Pre-Flashpoint and the Pre-Flashpoint characters come across as selfish, despite the attempts to make them look good.

As I said, a wasted opportunity.

[Tayswift]

So do the families of those in the Army and the Police - boy if everyone started thinking like that we would have no soldiers or cops
Superman is near invulnerable - that makes it a duty of his to help and do you not remember that he sacrificed himself to stop Doomsday? He was engaged to Lois at that time
Plus your statement is an insult to Lois as a character - that she would be practically useless without her husband. Life goes on - there are many in this world that live when the man of the house gets taken out or seriously injured

Superman still takes risks everytime he get out to beat villains, so he just does as cops. near invulnerable isn't invulnerable, and if you don't know superman has been suffering power fluctuations, so he has to be careful in what he does and who he fights. This means being careful because he has a family.
you took what i said out of context. lois and clark came from another earth, they have very few friends, live hidden with fake names, a son with superpowers. sure she can live alone, but neither her or superman want it

[manofsteel1979]

The thing is it could have been easily solved if preFlashpoint Superman and Lois arrived today and not 8 years ago...or even have their arrival more recent at least. I'm enjoying the series but if I think about it too much my head hurts.

[hellacre]

The thing is it could have been easily solved if preFlashpoint Superman and Lois arrived today and not 8 years ago...or even have their arrival more recent at least. I'm enjoying the series but if I think about it too much my head hurts.

Would that ease down his over sactimonous / we better than this earth attitude? I doubt it. It doesn't help. I cannot stand a Superman who acts all holier than thou but he in facts does questionable things. Seems as long as its for HIS comfort it's okay. Hated it when they wrote him that way in the 2000s.

[Ascended]

It has been pretty severely dumb as it's worked out, which is a shame; at heart, it's not a bad idea.

There are SO MANY interesting pieces in play here, but they gave it to the defining "boring-ass Post Crisis Superman writer" to steer it, so instead we've got a bunch of C-list semi-adventures that don't go into any of the interesting questions raised, with the stink of vague hypocrisy to boot. To call it a crushingly disappointing book would be unfair - we knew from the start it would be Jurgens - but could you imagine if they'd bothered to put anyone even KIND of good on it? It almost certainly would have been the best Superman book on the stands.

The only thing in your whole post that I disagree with is the bolded. There is nothing "vague" about Superdad's hypocrisy.

Superman would put his family and friends on safety first. Maybe he was helping those people that weren't close to where JL was acting.

Superman puts the world first. First and always. Christ, even Superman Returns got that part right. Maybe Superdad was helping people far from the League's fight with Darkseid. We're not told either way so it's entirely possible. But if true, then that still means he was ignoring the source of the problem so he could deal with the symptoms. It means that he was dealing with some parademons, saving perhaps a few dozen lives at a time, when he could have been taking on Darkseid, removing the cause of the threat, and saving billions.

anyway is almost impossibl justify where superman was and what he was doing when all those big events happened. it is a no win scenario.

Well, I know where he wasn't. He wasn't fighting the Crime Syndacite. He wasn't fighting Brainiac. He wasn't stopping Superdoom. He wasn't helping Superman hunt down Vandal Savage. He wasn't saving Perry White from a bullet. He might have been ignoring the real threats, letting people die, and dealing with secondary problems caused by these Events. Im sure he saved some lives from the natural disasters Ultraman created when he moved the moon. But Superdad wasn't there trying to stop him. He wasn't acting like Superman.

The fact that many of these stories happened before L&C saw print only means that DC, its editorial staff, management, and Jurgens could not come up with a better excuse for Superdad being MIA from these Events than "He's keepin' it on the DL"

And these people are supposed to be professionals?

Superman needs to know if henshaw isn't a danger to everyone first. it isn't responsible free someone that can represent danger and from we see has something dark going on with him.
last issue there is a woman that superman has to find a way that she can get out of prison and to not die.

So its okay to lock up an innocent man because he fits a particular profile and might be a threat? Im sure the Muslim community just adores you, huh?

superman has a family, he can't be reckless like new52. He is everything Jon and Lois have

Given that the entire League was MIA, Superdad was about the only thing the entire world had during Forever Evil. But I guess letting Lex and a bunch of villains save the day has worked out pretty decently. I mean, Lex has only become the New God of Apokolips because Forever Evil got him a gig on the League.

I thought cops, firefighters, and soldiers had families too but were still willing to do whatever it takes to get the job done. But, I suppose we can't hold Superdad up to such high standards.

[superduperman]

We need some sort of backstory here. Bottom line. DC has to address why he has been hiding in the shadows all this time and didn't step in more often. Show him saving people when Darkseid attacked. Give us something. Maybe Lois has been keeping him on a short leash and wouldn't let him intervene openly even when he really wanted to. That's why I'm hoping the team up addresses some of these issues (and possibly why it kept getting pushed back).

[Ascended]

We need some sort of backstory here. Bottom line. DC has to address why he has been hiding in the shadows all this time and didn't step in more often. Show him saving people when Darkseid attacked. Give us something. Maybe Lois has been keeping him on a short leash and wouldn't let him intervene openly even when he really wanted to. That's why I'm hoping the team up addresses some of these issues (and possibly why it kept getting pushed back).

Oh gods, please not that. Last thing we need is a return of whipped Superman. Aside from the lying, Im actually quite happy with the Clark-Lois dynamic in the book right now. This is what their marriage was supposed to be like.

But yeah, they need to work out some serious logic here, and to my mind it needs to be more involved than "he saved people elsewhere" because he still wasn't addressing the real problem/s and that means peopled died because Superdad didnt pull his full weight. Any Superman worthy of the name isnt going to stand by while people die and not do his absolute best to solve the problem.

[Agent Z]

Oh gods, please not that. Last thing we need is a return of whipped Superman. Aside from the lying, Im actually quite happy with the Clark-Lois dynamic in the book right now. This is what their marriage was supposed to be like.

But yeah, they need to work out some serious logic here, and to my mind it needs to be more involved than "he saved people elsewhere" because he still wasn't addressing the real problem/s and that means peopled died because Superdad didnt pull his full weight. Any Superman worthy of the name isnt going to stand by while people die and not do his absolute best to solve the problem.

He can't be everywhere at once. You might as well ask why other heroes didn't get involved as well.

Also, respecting your wife's wishes =/= whipped.

[Tayswift]

He can't be everywhere at once. You might as well ask why other heroes didn't get involved as well.

Also, respecting your wife's wishes =/= whipped.

sure there isn't nothing wrong with disrespecting his wife wishes, but I wouldn't be okay with Lois asking superman to stop saving people

[DieHard200904]

He can't be everywhere at once. You might as well ask why other heroes didn't get involved as well.

Also, respecting your wife's wishes =/= whipped.

I wonder what she thinks about him locking up people like Minority Report? It's a total failure on being bold and a moral compass. Seriously, the best excuse they could ever give a Superman was him being depowered once he got into the New 52 universe. So since he is powerless and weak as a human he can't really do much about the situation.

This guy has let Lex Luthor into the Justice League , he went after Hank Henshaw and locked him up for something he hasn't done. Basically, he gave Henshaw a good reason to hate Superman and become a villain, basically creating a villain by locking up a person out of paranoia, and being a tyrant. What happened out there that was worth more than thousands of lives of regular people? They just have not justified it really.

Standing up to your spouse does not make you a bad person either. Sometimes you have to do it because the other person is in error.

[ManSinha]

I think suffice to say there is broad agreement that this is nothing short of a cluster**** or as Tom Hanks said FUBAR

[Tayswift]

The only thing in your whole post that I disagree with is the bolded. There is nothing "vague" about Superdad's hypocrisy.



Superman puts the world first. First and always. Christ, even Superman Returns got that part right. Maybe Superdad was helping people far from the League's fight with Darkseid. We're not told either way so it's entirely possible. But if true, then that still means he was ignoring the source of the problem so he could deal with the symptoms. It means that he was dealing with some parademons, saving perhaps a few dozen lives at a time, when he could have been taking on Darkseid, removing the cause of the threat, and saving billions.



Well, I know where he wasn't. He wasn't fighting the Crime Syndacite. He wasn't fighting Brainiac. He wasn't stopping Superdoom. He wasn't helping Superman hunt down Vandal Savage. He wasn't saving Perry White from a bullet. He might have been ignoring the real threats, letting people die, and dealing with secondary problems caused by these Events. Im sure he saved some lives from the natural disasters Ultraman created when he moved the moon. But Superdad wasn't there trying to stop him. He wasn't acting like Superman.

The fact that many of these stories happened before L&C saw print only means that DC, its editorial staff, management, and Jurgens could not come up with a better excuse for Superdad being MIA from these Events than "He's keepin' it on the DL"

And these people are supposed to be professionals?

I don't think they could get away with it. the best they could do is put superman and lois arriving recently, but then Jonathan would be a baby and not a 9 years old kid.

none of these events were thought to happen with superman hiding. another last minute decision.

So its okay to lock up an innocent man because he fits a particular profile and might be a threat? Im sure the Muslim community just adores you, huh?

this is a difficult subject, but henshaw being detained has nothing to do with his looks or religion.

Given that the entire League was MIA, Superdad was about the only thing the entire world had during Forever Evil. But I guess letting Lex and a bunch of villains save the day has worked out pretty decently. I mean, Lex has only become the New God of Apokolips because Forever Evil got him a gig on the League.

I thought cops, firefighters, and soldiers had families too but were still willing to do whatever it takes to get the job done. But, I suppose we can't hold Superdad up to such high standards.

he risks his life, but he isn't in his earth anymore where he could count on batman, wonder woman, JL to help his family. so he have to be careful

[NYCER]

It defies even DC logic that neither Earth 0 Superman nor Supergirl, who's HUNGRY for any Kryptonian connection, was unable to detect SuperDad for over 5 freaking years. No way would those two have been missing out on finding SuperDad for that amount of time.

[DieHard200904]

It defies even DC logic that neither Earth 0 Superman or Supergirl, who's HUNGRY for any Kryptonian connection, was unable to detect SuperDad for over 5 freaking years. No way would those two have been missing out on finding SuperDad for that amount of time.

Not a question of not finding him, it's a question of him jumping in to help people. That is a fundamental aspect of Superman's character. Now somehow he doesn't have the brass so that he can resist jumping in and helping the younger Superman when it's clear he's in trouble, and a large percentage of the time there wouldn't be an excuse to not know that young Superman was in trouble because it would be on the news what happened with Doomed, Forever Evil, etc. If I was the old Superman, I would jump in at the fact that the young guy got in half the crises that he did. It's like the movie Man of Steel, where that version of Lois pointed out that Clark couldn't resist going to help people, he would turn up, and that was true to how Post-Crisis Superman actually was. Now, he has somehow reversed his own mind and can pass up on crises as they happen, while the weak SUperman keeps getting in fights with crooks because he can't resist the urge to intervene, despite his all so increased vulnerability? Say what one will about Superman, but it sure looks like the weak Truth Superman knew some of his traditional principles, and the Pre-Flashpoint is losing them.

[NYCER]

Not a question of not finding him, it's a question of him jumping in to help people. That is a fundamental aspect of Superman's character. Now somehow he doesn't have the brass so that he can resist jumping in and helping the younger Superman when it's clear he's in trouble, and a large percentage of the time there wouldn't be an excuse to not know that young Superman was in trouble because it would be on the news what happened with Doomed, Forever Evil, etc. If I was the old Superman, I would jump in at the fact that the young guy got in half the crises that he did. It's like the movie Man of Steel, where that version of Lois pointed out that Clark couldn't resist going to help people, he would turn up, and that was true to how Post-Crisis Superman actually was. Now, he has somehow reversed his own mind and can pass up on crises as they happen, while the weak SUperman keeps getting in fights with crooks because he can't resist the urge to intervene, despite his all so increased vulnerability? Say what one will about Superman, but it sure looks like the weak Truth Superman knew some of his traditional principles, and the Pre-Flashpoint is losing them.

That does not explain how New 52 Superman who hears everything did not hear (or maybe even see) SuperDad. Ditto with Angry!Kara. Not buying it.