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  1. #151
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenon View Post
    The value and costs of that difference is a bigger discussion I think. Decided not to try and tread too far down there because we were already way afield.

    There are no perfect solutions, but you're not wrong about that flaw.
    yeah, its an ongoing discussion. i'd be lying if i said that i thought affirmative action didn't have drawbacks, but i have also personally benefited from a mild form of it (coming from a low socio-economic background myself) so i have personal reasons to support it in some shape. a lot of the time the truth lies in the middle of two extremes and sometimes it is actually one or the other.

    on another note, zendaya is a talented artist, i'm sure she'll deliver.
    Last edited by boots; 08-26-2016 at 09:18 PM.
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  2. #152
    Mighty Member Mecegirl's Avatar
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    I mean...I'm just not too worried about this chick being able to pull off Mary Jane.


  3. #153
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    she should perform a song on the soundtrack. Her character should be fun, flirty and flighty...
    Fashion is her Kryptonite



    By the way, the redhead in that video is Bella Thorne, whom most folks were pulling to play MJ. It's clear as day in this video that Zendaya completely overshadows her with her presence. If Mary Jane is not the most vivacious and captivating person in the room, then she is no Mary Jane at all. Zendaya is a FAR better fit for MJ than Thorne, despite Thorne being an actual redhead.

    At the end of the day, MJ is about the charisma and stunning beauty, which Zendaya has in spades. It's perfect casting.

  4. #154
    Fantastic Member Cosmic Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    The real problem with Jameson is the JK Simmons factor. Simmons as Jonah was one of those incredible casting choices that it feels like they aren't even going to try. And they let Simmons slip away.

    Let's be honest. The Bugle has never REALLY been important in any Spidey film. We just love Simmons' Jonah. The rest of the Bugle staff barely made an impression in the Raimi films. And they didn't even try in the ASM films (with Jonah reduced to existing completely off-screen because nobody was topping Simmons).

    The Bugle would need to be rethought from the ground up to work in today's world. But you're asking far more of me than I am interested in discussing. If you have ideas for how the Bugle can work, that's fine. That's not why I'm here, though.



    Harry's overplayed. And throwing out the name of an old character that has largely been forgotten by Spidey fandom is their way of honoring the work of Lee/Ditko/Romita. Sorry if that isn't the answer you're looking for. But it is what it is.



    I really like the Robertsons.





    All kidding aside, I was referring to this. Peter's sweater says "Midtown School of Science & Technology."
    Wow, Holland sure looks alot like a young Christopher Reeves in that Picture; Which would be oddly appropriate for what I hope will be a great new Spidey franchise.

    I just hope Peter doesn't have to ask MJ what a Magnet is.
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  5. #155
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I wonder if somebody is going to ask her to say "Face it Tiger..." at a convention ?

  6. #156
    Fantastic Member Cosmic Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    Fashion is her Kryptonite



    By the way, the redhead in that video is Bella Thorne, whom most folks were pulling to play MJ. It's clear as day in this video that Zendaya completely overshadows her with her presence. If Mary Jane is not the most vivacious and captivating person in the room, then she is no Mary Jane at all. Zendaya is a FAR better fit for MJ than Thorne, despite Thorne being an actual redhead.

    At the end of the day, MJ is about the charisma and stunning beauty, which Zendaya has in spades. It's perfect casting.
    I agree.

    The biggest flaw with Kirsten Dunst's MJ was that the character was presented as a "Girl next door" Type; Which MJ never was in the Comics. MJ has always been Larger than Life...A Glamour Gal. And that is what I want to see. Gwen Stacy also met that criteria to some extent as the prototypical future "Trophy Wife".

    Betty Brant and Deb Whitman were the real "Girl next Door" types in the comics.
    Life is the algorithm through which Goddess explores the infinite possibilities of Her own existence.

  7. #157
    Spectacular Member DCordo74's Avatar
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    I've watched Zendaya in interviews before. And I've been on her instagram and listened to her mega fans. And what I've learned is that if she basically plays herself. Then she's already 99% of the way there, no biggie. All she's gotta do is dye her hair red. Based on her personality alone she's the most comic book MJ that's been cast (at least from the MJs that weren't called "Gwen" in the movies for some reason).

    If someone is more upset over her skin color than whether or not she has MJ's attitude, they should do some self evaluation...because they're racist. And no one should feel like they have the right to bash a real person over something as minor as a fictional character's skin or hair color.

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  9. #159
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCordo74 View Post
    I've watched Zendaya in interviews before. And I've been on her instagram and listened to her mega fans. And what I've learned is that if she basically plays herself. Then she's already 99% of the way there, no biggie. All she's gotta do is dye her hair red. Based on her personality alone she's the most comic book MJ that's been cast (at least from the MJs that weren't called "Gwen" in the movies for some reason).

    If someone is more upset over her skin color than whether or not she has MJ's attitude, they should do some self evaluation...because they're racist. And no one should feel like they have the right to bash a real person over something as minor as a fictional character's skin or hair color.
    well, here's the other thing: zendaya is half white. i know racial identity in the USA is complicated (partly due to that whole one drop nonsense), and at the end of the day it's up to zendaya to choose how she indentifies culturally, but...she does have "white" heritage (her mother is scottish/german anglo-celtic). why are we defining her as black and black only? surely she has the right to claim both sides of her parentage.

    would rashida jones who is also mixed black and white background but who looks white have had this sort of backlash? and dean cain played superman after all.

    are there any quotes from the actress herself in regards to all this?
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  10. #160
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    well, here's the other thing: zendaya is half white. i know racial identity in the USA is complicated (partly due to that whole one drop nonsense), and at the end of the day it's up to zendaya to choose how she indentifies culturally, but...she does have "white" heritage (her mother is scottish/german anglo-celtic). why are we defining her as black and black only? surely she has the right to claim both sides of her parentage.

    would rashida jones who is also mixed black and white background but who looks white have had this sort of backlash? and dean cain played superman after all.

    are there any quotes from the actress herself in regards to all this?
    Usually black is a stronger identifier than biracial. Biggest case in point being the POTUS and how people describe him. The closest quote from Zendaya regarding the subject is this one where she felt she had a responsibility (can't get more Spider-Many there) to represent the spectrum of shades of her people (which I assume she meant both black and biracial communities), while also insightfully acknowledging the privilege she had over darker skinned individuals because of her skin tone:

    “I feel a responsibility to be a voice for the beautiful shades my people come in. Unfortunately, I have a bit of a privilege compared to my darker sisters and brothers… Like people question, Would you listen to Zendaya if she wasn’t the same skin color? And that’s an honest question. Can I honestly say that I’ve had to face the same racism and struggles as a woman with darker skin? No, I cannot. I have not walked in her shoes and that is unfair of me to say. But I’m completely behind that woman. I want to be a part of the movement and growth. And if I get put in a position because of the color of my skin where people will listen to me, then I should use that privilege the right way.”
    She has also been the face of various initiatives for the benefit of African-Americans and also featured with other famous black female personalities in Beyonce's video album that was an ode to black women.

    On a website targeted at black women, I came across a simple comment that perfectly summed up the hypocrisy behind the "She isn't the same race as in the comics, that's all!" reasoning: If comic book fans in general turned a blind eye to a biracial African-American actress cast as the African goddess Storm, then why is a biracial actress cast as Mary Jane such a big deal?

  11. #161
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    Usually black is a stronger identifier than biracial. Biggest case in point being the POTUS and how people describe him. The closest quote from Zendaya regarding the subject is this one where she felt she had a responsibility (can't get more Spider-Many there) to represent the spectrum of shades of her people (which I assume she meant both black and biracial communities), while also insightfully acknowledging the privilege she had over darker skinned individuals because of her skin tone:

    She has also been the face of various initiatives for the benefit of African-Americans and also featured with other famous black female personalities in Beyonce's video album that was an ode to black women.
    well, if that's how she defines herself and that's her sense of belonging, then that's end of discussion.

    and it's a sad truth that the more "white" your ethnic look, the more opportunities you have.

    On a website targeted at black women, I came across a simple comment that perfectly summed up the hypocrisy behind the "She isn't the same race as in the comics, that's all!" reasoning: If comic book fans in general turned a blind eye to a biracial African-American actress cast as the African goddess Storm, then why is a biracial actress cast as Mary Jane such a big deal?
    not only that, but one african country has a completely different identity to another. reminds me of the casting of chinese actors in "memoirs of a geisha"; most of the western audience couldn't understand what all the fuss was about.
    Last edited by boots; 08-28-2016 at 12:27 AM.
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  12. #162
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    This does lead to questions that are sometimes interesting and sometimes difficult.

    There is recently greater awareness (at least among white pop culture consumers) about the ways in which darker-skinned actresses can be discriminated against, passed over for "black" roles that go to someone lighter-skinned (examples include both versions of Storm, and Coretta Scott King in Selma). There are some articles about how Zendaya would have a tougher time getting cast as MJ if she wasn't half-white.

    With some Chinese audiences disappointed when a Japanese actor plays a Chinese part, and vice versa, that can get complicated. White audiences are less likely to care, because we're not bothered when someone with a white background plays someone with a different white background (it's not an issue if a British actor plays a German, etc.) Asian audiences might argue that their cultures are different, and that they're simply more attuned to physical differences between, to give an example, Korean and Japanese individuals. Or it could also be bigotry on their end, racial preferences that most white audiences are just unaware of.
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  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    Fashion is her Kryptonite



    By the way, the redhead in that video is Bella Thorne, whom most folks were pulling to play MJ. It's clear as day in this video that Zendaya completely overshadows her with her presence. If Mary Jane is not the most vivacious and captivating person in the room, then she is no Mary Jane at all. Zendaya is a FAR better fit for MJ than Thorne, despite Thorne being an actual redhead.

    At the end of the day, MJ is about the charisma and stunning beauty, which Zendaya has in spades. It's perfect casting.
    Agreed. Never liked Thorne for MJ. She's stunning but she just doesn't have the personality. Zendaya is great though.

  14. #164
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    This does lead to questions that are sometimes interesting and sometimes difficult.

    There is recently greater awareness (at least among white pop culture consumers) about the ways in which darker-skinned actresses can be discriminated against, passed over for "black" roles that go to someone lighter-skinned (examples include both versions of Storm, and Coretta Scott King in Selma). There are some articles about how Zendaya would have a tougher time getting cast as MJ if she wasn't half-white.

    With some Chinese audiences disappointed when a Japanese actor plays a Chinese part, and vice versa, that can get complicated. White audiences are less likely to care, because we're not bothered when someone with a white background plays someone with a different white background (it's not an issue if a British actor plays a German, etc.) Asian audiences might argue that their cultures are different, and that they're simply more attuned to physical differences between, to give an example, Korean and Japanese individuals. Or it could also be bigotry on their end, racial preferences that most white audiences are just unaware of.
    Zoe Saldana as Nina Simone too is an example of a role for a darker skinned actress going to a lighter skinned one. Saldana's casting especially caused a stir when it was revealed that make-up was applied on her that basically amounted to "blackfacing" to darken her complexion and make her look more like Simone.

    I have seen complaints about "Why so many British and Australian actors playing American superheroes?" even when the British and Australian actors are white. These protests aren't as strong as protests when actors of color are cast to play traditionally white roles but I think that's because racism can evoke stronger reactions than xenophobia (when they don't overlap i.e.) I'm sure that if no character was racebent, then the protests against white British and Australian actors would be stronger as there wouldn't be anything to divert attention. As Stan Lee himself once said, "Even if everyone on the planet was only of one race, we'd still find silly differences to discriminate each other, like blond people discriminating against redheads (the Irish being originally discriminated against for instance)".
    Last edited by Confuzzled; 08-28-2016 at 09:58 AM.

  15. #165
    Rachel Grey-Summers Sardorim's Avatar
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    Of course she would have a tougher time being cast aa Mary Jane if she was darker.

    Mary Jane has almost always been depicted as Caucasian and having red hair. Suddenly changing her race isn't going to go well with fans at all.

    Not to mention that it raises eye brows of having Mary Jane race changed yet Peter is still being cast as a Caucasian male in all media and has been since forever. Seems a bit of a double standard.

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