Singer-Actress Zendaya cast in MCU Spider-Man film

[UnknownEntity]

Idris Elba and John Boyega (and many more) are also Englishmen. And they aren't Caucasian.

Right, what a mishap on my part. Correction, isn't Tom Holland Caucasian much in the same way Peter Parker is.

[Tuck]

Right, what a mishap on my part. Correction, isn't Tom Holland Caucasian much in the same way Peter Parker is.

Was he wearing a blue suit in the movie?

[SpiderClops]

MJ in SMLMJ was very introverted underneath it all. She's just not as outwardly hostile.

(MJ in Homecoming is a total Tsundere. Which is a Japanese term to describe someone who is initially cold before warming up to someone. Usually presented as a love interest. They often switch between being cold to a person and being warm to a person.)

That is not a tsundere.

[Mister Mets]

So it would be 'laughably unrealistic' to have four white kids in one class?
Please, LOL
Come on, this really feels like apologizing for the forced race changes.
I saw someone state on a message board not too long ago that, although Queens is very diverse these days, the schools actually tend not to be.

Public schools could be, especially if Peter's family lacks the resources to get him to a school zone with a lot of white kids.

There can be a story about five white kids who are the main friends, but a subtext of that is going to have to be de facto segregation.

And is it colourblind casting when Ned, Flash, Liz & 'MJ' ALL turn from white to non-white in the new film, or is it down to contrived political reasons?

I think option b) is the answer.

Unless white actors benefited from earlier casting decisions, allowing for a bottleneck of multi-racial talent when someone went looking for more diverse options.

Care to provide an example? (no really, I am really curious about your colorblind casting proposal and how you would implement it, genuinely curious).

It's what Sony claims was done with some characters (including Ned Leeds). The basic idea is that if race is not important to a casting decision (IE- Black Panther is supposed to be black, Bruce Wayne is supposed to be old money), it should be open to all sorts of actors, rather than just white people.

[UnknownEntity]

Was he wearing a blue suit in the movie?

Nice primitive tease (though I had it coming due to how basic and obvious what I stated was).

[UnknownEntity]

It's what Sony claims was done with some characters (including Ned Leeds). The basic idea is that if race is not important to a casting decision (IE- Black Panther is supposed to be black, Bruce Wayne is supposed to be old money), it should be open to all sorts of actors, rather than just white people.

Yeah but then the same thing is open to racially diverse characters as well. White Luke Cage or Egyptian Black Panther, etc. I wouldn't want to see that.

Ned Leeds is Ganke in all but name.

[Timmyb52]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. This feels like Marvel trying to have their cake and eat it too. They have an "MJ," the nickname of the most famous Spider-Man love interest, but she is distinctly not "Mary Jane," so they can claim they didn't cast a person of color as "Mary Jane."

Marvel has been consistently engaged in this "carrot on a stick" tactic ever since OMD by continually giving and not giving us MJ. IMHO Marvel thinks we are suckers who will fall for it every time and pay for that pleasure over and over again. It is a mockery of the fans and their patience plain and simple. And it appears that Marvel has no plans on letting up when it comes to taking MJ fans for granted!

[Mister Mets]

Yeah but then the same thing is open to racially diverse characters as well. White Luke Cage or Egyptian Black Panther, etc. I wouldn't want to see that.

Ned Leeds is Ganke in all but name.

While race doesn't have to matter for every character, it can matter in some cases.

For example, I think it was important that Vulture's daughter be biracial, just so it's more of a shock when the middle-aged villain turns out to be her dad (and that necessitates casting a black woman as the mother.)

Sony's explanation with Ned is that they opened the role to all sorts of actors, and their favorite choice happened to be chunky, filipino and from Hawaii (incidentally, Ganke is Korean-American.) It could be that they were influenced by the Ultimate comics, where a chubby asian guy brought a similar energy to the series (although he wasn't as mother-mouthed.) It could also be that if they had cast a white lead, biracial love interests and a latino in the teen roles, an asian guy with a different body type offered diversity. Or maybe they were correct in determining that a newcomer who played a supporting role pretty well was the right choice for the job.

[UnknownEntity]

While race doesn't have to matter for every character, it can matter in some cases.

For example, I think it was important that Vulture's daughter be biracial, just so it's more of a shock when the middle-aged villain turns out to be her dad (and that necessitates casting a black woman as the mother.)

Sony's explanation with Ned is that they opened the role to all sorts of actors, and their favorite choice happened to be chunky, filipino and from Hawaii (incidentally, Ganke is Korean-American.) It could be that they were influenced by the Ultimate comics, where a chubby asian guy brought a similar energy to the series (although he wasn't as mother-mouthed.) It could also be that if they had cast a white lead, biracial love interests and a latino in the teen roles, an asian guy with a different body type offered diversity. Or maybe they were correct in determining that a newcomer who played a supporting role pretty well was the right choice for the job.

Race does matter depending on the role. If the role is too big, like casting Spider Man or Batman, then you know what to expect but for some secondary characters they have a more free hand. I am not in any way turned out by the diverse cast of Spider Man Homecoming, so Ned Leeds, Flash and Liz are no biggies, other than Zendaya's Non-Mary Jane MJ. If she's an original character in a Spider Man movie do not give her the MJ initials which in Spider Man is synonymous to a very well known redheaded love interest.

[Dangerous]

Race does matter depending on the role. If the role is too big, like casting Spider Man or Batman, then you know what to expect but for some secondary characters they have a more free hand. I am not in any way turned out by the diverse cast of Spider Man Homecoming, so Ned Leeds, Flash and Liz are no biggies, other than Zendaya's Non-Mary Jane MJ. If she's an original character in a Spider Man movie do not give her the MJ initials which in Spider Man is synonymous to a very well known redheaded love interest.

Yea, it's pretty much BS.

[Frontier]

I'm just disappointed that it seems like Mary Jane is getting the shrift in a major Spider-Man media.

Again.

No, it isn't.

Marvel and DC has been doing politically correct things since the 60s, starting with Robby Robertson and going forward.

You just don't like it because you have lived with the most recent changes for 20 years.

Man I miss Robbie being relevant. Almost as much as I miss MJ being a major player in Spider-Man...

[Kevinroc]

I'm just disappointed that it seems like MJ is getting the shrift in a major Spider-Man media.

Again.

At least Marvel Studios aren't badmouthing Mary Jane like the people who made the last set of Spider-Man movies.

Man I miss Robbie being relevant. Almost as much as I miss MJ being a major player in Spider-Man...

Me too.

[Confuzzled]

spoilers:

At least Ultimate Mary Jane still had the same name, looks, and wasn't some original character created just to have an MJ-figure in the book. I had nothing against the race-change (disappointed as I am that we won't be seeing that glorious red hair in live-action), but I do have something against trying to make "Michelle Jones" the MJ figure of the movies rather then the actual Mary Jane Watson. Even if they give her similar traits to the MJ we know, she's still not Mary Jane or will probably really be Mary Jane in the movies.

end of spoilers


spoilers:

But she's not Mary Jane. How is that a victory? It just feels like more of Marvel being unable to committ to Mary Jane as a character and devaluing her role in the mythos by replacing her with a character who just shares a nickname with her. A character they don't even think of as Mary Jane.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

I don't think Marvel Studios, Sony or anyone associated with the film has clearly said they don't think of Homecoming's MJ as Mary Jane. Are you going by that CBR article? Most of that was just the CBR writer putting in her own opinions about how Michelle is "better than Mary Jane".

end of spoilers

[UnknownEntity]

I don't think Marvel Studios, Sony or anyone associated with the film has clearly said they don't think of Homecoming's MJ as Mary Jane. Are you going by that CBR article? Most of that was just the CBR writer putting in her own opinions about how Michelle is "better than Mary Jane".

Marvel Studios have essentially created a Non-Mary Jane "MJ" and that is precisely what is wrong with this scenario. In Spider Man, MJ is synonymous and indistinguishable from the iconic redhead we all know and love. If this Michelle is not meant to be Mary Jane then why give her the MJ initials when people clearly know MJ stands for Mary Jane in the Spider Man Mythos? She's either Michelle or Mary Jane MJ. What they did here is a twisted cop out move that is completely unnecessary.

[Confuzzled]

I agree that the best thing to do was just make her proper Mary Jane and this seems very half-assed. But I also don't think she is a "non-MJ". They were clearly inspired by that take on Robin in The Dark Knight Rises and hence the whole ruse with "Michelle".

But I think she will eventually become more like traditional Mary Jane, if not completely the same. I mean, Midtown Tigers cannot be a coincidence right? That has to lead up to something.