I think the Spectre can become a popular (perhaps A-list) character

[Inhuman X]

You know that's bull. I could tell them how to make a Spectre title sell, and Green Lantern. But Batman, Justice League, Green Arrow, etc. I have no idea about. And again. what I'd do is show them how to make it not depend on me or anyone else. See the difference there?

A Neil Gaiman Spectre title would be about Neil Gaiman. When he left, it would be all over. That's not the answer to anything. Make it so it doesn't depend on the writer to survive.

I agree. I loved Warren Ellis on Moon Knight but no one that followed him understood how to make the character work as well as what he did. Perfect example.

[Savage Savant]

That was in 1940, what worked then doesn't automatically work now. That said defeating all evil and killing sinners is the same thing, and he's been doing both for quite a while now.

Not quite dude. It wasn't just in the 40's, it was from the 40's till roughly the mid 80's in which the Spectre was NEVER the "Wrath of God" but the Ghost/Spirit of Jim Corrigan. That's how Siegel created the character & how the character was portrayed for roughly 40 ish years, period. Once that bullshit recton by Alan Moore took root in the character within Moore's run on Swamp Thing was when Ostrander ran with that concept (which perpetuated) & then created all these problems with the character such as "He's too powerful" & "there's too much religious overtones with the character" etc.

You don't get none of that shit with the Pre-Crisis incarnation. Under Pre-Crisis continuity, Spectre was still more powerful than Silver Age Superman & even Dr. Strange, yet he still got his ass kicked by ghosts/spirits with the exact same powers as him & even evil mad scientists & aliens such as Kulak (I believe that's the character's name) in that All Star Squadron issue where he mind controls Spectre & he goes toe to toe with Dr. Fate (Roy Thomas clearly "got" the Spectre unlike later writers).

"Sinners" has an explicit religious undertone to it. You wanna talk metaphysics with Spectre? You can do that with the Pre-Crisis version, just explain the character's powers from a Substance Dualist perspective.

I've said these things thousands of times already in most Spectre threads yet it doesn't seem like you or the people who perpetuate the "Wrath of God" incarnation seem to understand.

[Outside_85]

Not quite dude. It wasn't just in the 40's, it was from the 40's till roughly the mid 80's in which the Spectre was NEVER the "Wrath of God" but the Ghost/Spirit of Jim Corrigan. That's how Siegel created the character & how the character was portrayed for roughly 40 ish years, period. Once that bullshit recton by Alan Moore took root in the character within Moore's run on Swamp Thing was when Ostrander ran with that concept (which perpetuated) & then created all these problems with the character such as "He's too powerful" & "there's too much religious overtones with the character" etc.

So you colors do show. And yeah, maybe he was running around for 40 years as he was originally depicted... what he was doing exactly has been lost in the mists of time since no one seems to remember anything from back then other than he was there. Then along came a much better writer and made an update and the Spectre has been unavoidable ever since, which is pretty damn impressive considering that's stuck for the last 30 years.

If he's too powerful is only a question of whenever the writer can give a plausible reason for someone to be able to stand against him. Bad example is Geoff Johns' Nekron, good example is Rucka's Vandal Savage/Cain.

Dunno who in this day and age is complaining about religious overtones in a Spectre comic, sounds like they might also start complaining about all the flying around Superman does.

You don't get none of that shit with the Pre-Crisis incarnation. Under Pre-Crisis continuity, Spectre was still more powerful than Silver Age Superman & even Dr. Strange, yet he still got his ass kicked by ghosts/spirits with the exact same powers as him & even evil mad scientists & aliens such as Kulak (I believe that's the character's name) in that All Star Squadron issue where he mind controls Spectre & he goes toe to toe with Dr. Fate (Roy Thomas clearly "got" the Spectre unlike later writers).

So he had a wobbly powerset by the sounds of it, nice to know some things were buried and stayed there.

"Sinners" has an explicit religious undertone to it. You wanna talk metaphysics with Spectre? You can do that with the Pre-Crisis version, just explain the character's powers from a Substance Dualist perspective.

Yeah and so what? The religious aspect of the character is one of the most interesting, plus it helps to counterbalance that the DCU has plenty of demons running around that needs explaining.

I've said these things thousands of times already in most Spectre threads yet it doesn't seem like you or the people who perpetuate the "Wrath of God" incarnation seem to understand.

Considering you have only just passed 100 posts, I seriously doubt you've said it even a dozen times. And what you nostagia fans dont seem to get is that we have plenty of detectives already, we even had a ghost detecive couple that DC sadly didn't do very much with, we don't need another one.

[Agent Z]

I wouldn't say that. Spider-man, Batman, Superman... they have had multiple writers over multiple decades and aren't dependent on any particular writer to succeed. Some concepts are bigger then the writers. Green Lantern was awesome under Johns... but I was a huge fan before him, and still love the character after him.







I would agree with this. Spectre is both dark... violent... and more then a little sacrilegious. Those are three steps really keeping him from ever being truly 'A-list'. He could get up to a high Fringe B-list.... or even a mainstream C-list... but hoping for mainstream A-list??? I don't see it happening.

He really is just too difficult to write correctly. As the actual embodiment of the WRATH OF GOD... finding actual threats and opponents are difficult. I've read a few trades of Ostrander's run... and never saw him fight anyone twice. Because who can really stand up to the Wrath of God??

Spectre falls into two traps. Either he's A) too powerful to be challenged... or B) Why does he not kill off all the people like Joker?? You're either all powerful or ineffectual. And the idea of changing everything about him... means that you aren't really that big of a fan of his in the first place.




They were shown. Spectre was rather popular in the 90's and they found a balance to his powers (of a sort...) Others have tried to write it since with moderate success... but he's still not particularly A-list. If they couldn't work with Ostrander's formula... then it's not going to happen.

Maybe they could put him in a separate continuity?

[Flash Gordon]

Remove him from Gotham. Get someone to do a long run on him in the vein of Moore's SWAMP THING. Make it weird and wild and fun. Dark when it needs to be. Upbeat at times.

I'd like to see Superman show up in the darkness of Spectre's strange world, since they are half brothers.

[Agent Z]

Remove him from Gotham. Get someone to do a long run on him in the vein of Moore's SWAMP THING. Make it weird and wild and fun. Dark when it needs to be. Upbeat at times.

I'd like to see Superman show up in the darkness of Spectre's strange world, since they are half brothers.

Um, what? Did I miss something somewhere?

[Outside_85]

Um, what? Did I miss something somewhere?

both created by the same man.

[Trey Strain]

He needs to be Jim Corrigan, detective, the secret identity of the Spectre. With an actual life and job, and a supporting cast that lacks super-powers. No cosmic twaddle, but scary stuff. He's a ghost, not an employee of God.

Nobody as DC will come up with a better concept than that.

[big_boss]

I'd pay for a well written Spectre book, though I know little about him, and I wouldn't mind the agent of God stuff. I always found him very interesting but he has never really had much part in books I've read (I read very little though)

[Trey Strain]

Re the wrath oif God: I don't know what God thinks, and I certainly don't know that he suffers from bouts of wrath. That needs to go away.

[Outside_85]

Re the wrath oif God: I don't know what God thinks, and I certainly don't know that he suffers from bouts of wrath. That needs to go away.

Have you heard of the Flood? Sodom and Gomorra perhaps?

Nobody as DC will come up with a better concept than that.

Than the Wrath of God? You are right, it's hard to top that.

[Trey Strain]

You can't make an A-list character out of "the wrath of God." That's a C concept.

[Inhuman X]

You can't make an A-list character out of "the wrath of God." That's a C concept.

I feel that bringing existing real world religious beliefs into comic books as cartoonish characters is wrong and entirely too sensitive a thing to touch. It feels too much like mockery of some one's dearly held beliefs. I think Dr. Strange writers had the right idea in creating a fantasy scape to draw from even if analogous (and they ended up in court over using a Christian musicians likeness without permission) and I am alright with dead ancient religions like Thor making entrance. But as soon as you draw up a comic book Allah, Jesus, etc we are going to see a shooting at a comic book studio in the US just like what happened in France. It's why I am willing to agree that the wrath of God is a bad concept to build around even if my reasons may not be shared. I find it too combative, too insulting, too problematic to make for a good comic book superhero read where we are looking for an escape rather than a nose to dirt rub.

[David Walton]

Spectre's an interesting character, with a lot of great interpretations out there.

I think Ostrander and DeMatteis both did some amazing things with the religious angle.

But I'm also really fond of the crime noir take, where Corrigan investigates and then dishes out poetic justice as Spectre. That Showcase Presents short film was a lot of fun, but in a brevity is the soul of wit kind of way. I don't know if you could sell monthly books with that hook, because you run into the same problem with the Punisher.

[Outside_85]

You can't make an A-list character out of "the wrath of God." That's a C concept.

C-list? Odd, theres only 1 or 2 characters in both Marvel and DC who claim to be either/or the Wrath of God or the Spirit of Vengance. Yet there are over two dozen detectives in each. Neither Spirit is easy to ignore and writers keep returning to them, yet most of these detectives disappear because no one cares what they do.

Also what you are proposing is turning him into a second-rank John Constantine at best.