Sick of the attempts to control my fantasies by others. Comic related.

[SXVA]

As a comic reader and taking part in various communities relating to comics i've seen the drastic trend that's taken shape by a certain group of people who continuously try and force their agenda upon everyone else.

And you know what, i was actually buying into it... i was beginning to feel like i was doing something wrong, ashamed or thinking maybe they're right and there was something wrong with me because of possibly liking female characters to have cleavage or dressed a certain way or portrayed as *gasp* sexy. Powergirl for example. Yeah, i enjoy her cleavage. That's right, i said it. In my fantasies i enjoy having a beautiful sexy female character and appreciating her body and/or cleavage. I don't see superhero females like this in my every day life and so it's enjoyable to be a part of my fantasy world.

Seeing the Catwoman cover by Guillem March redone with her cleavage covered up sort of set me off on this rant. Not that alone, or specifically it just was a bunch of things again again that built up to that point. There's nothing wrong with March's vision of Catwoman in this cover. yet, there's always gotta be this statement and agenda forced into it. Oh, i'm covering up her cleavage. I'm taking a stand against objectifying of females, etc, etc.

Before you think it's simply about wanting to sexualize everything, that's not it.. i'm not even that sexual of a person.. it's more about worship i guess or admiration. i could easily go look at porn all over the internet if that was the purpose. The point is there's nothing wrong with people liking all kinds of different things in their fantasy existence. And if i appreciate that Catwoman cover it has nothing to do with sexism or misogyny.

You know who else shares a similar pattern to what's going on with this trend...? Bullies, that's who. Trying to force their agenda on everyone to the point it must be accepted. Shame you into it, guilt you into it, push and push until you accept it. Well, no more bullies. I'm not ashamed, i'm not accepting your agenda. I'll like what i want and my fantasies will be what i want. I'll enjoy and appreciate Catwoman's cleavage, or Powergirl or any female character portayed as being sexy or dressed a certain way or whoever and whatever else i want to. Hopefully others will as well and not bow down to this forced agenda being pushed on everything. Every cover, every character these SJW bullies are trying to force it into only what they want even if they don't read it or follow it or anything. Don't let them break your will. Appreciate the characters how you want to and don't let them shame you into thinking it's somehow sexist or misogynist to do so... because it's not.

Not even only that, like every female character has to be the most badass at everything. You can't even have a damsel in distress or a love interest anymore. It's absurd.

There should be a balance. Not all the one way or all the other way. There's room for a kickass female character who wrecks sh*t and there's room for a love interest or someone who needs protection. There's room for males like this as well. There's room for all of it. A balance of everything. I'm fine with all of that relating to male characters as well... have Flash or Arrow rocking some tighty whiteys with shirt off and enjoy him in your fantasies however you want and i'm not complaining if you enjoy that. Just stop trying to control mine. and force whatever agenda you have on me and onto everything else. Every character, every comic, every cover, every story doesn't have to be according to that agenda. There are other people in the world you know, who have different ideas and opinions that i know this might be shocking but... different than yours.

[Xhatch]

Personally I think all tastes in comics can and should be catered for. Not every female needs to be portrayed as sexy eye candy, but certain characters who play off their femininity, like Catwoman, should be shown as being more sexual in their choice of attire.

But yes, we are in a new age of "bullying" or forcing others to conform to a certain thing. Look at the reaction to the new Ghostbusters trailer. Or look at Red Sonya or Vamprilla's or Angela's new updated outfits. God forbid female characters are shown as sexy in any way! Don't want to cater to the dirty middle age pervy man demographic in comics! -_-

[batnbreakfast]

Ok, I get where you come from but I think its nice to see that comics are moving away from cleavage. It's off-putting explaining to your girlfriend you aren't reading Batman for the Catwoman/Harley/Ivy boobs on the cover but for the interesting story beneath it ("yeah... story... clearly" she says). It's nice when comics get more welcoming for a lot of female readers (they need every Cent to survive) who are irritated. PowerGirl or Ivy are sexy but more often they're not. I say that as someone who enjoys Russ Meyer's work or classic pin-ups. I almost skipped DC Bomshells despite it being a good read for all the name implies.

[SXVA]

Personally I think all tastes in comics can and should be catered for. Not every female needs to be portrayed as sexy eye candy, but certain characters who play off their femininity, like Catwoman, should be shown as being more sexual in their choice of attire.

But yes, we are in a new age of "bullying" or forcing others to conform to a certain thing. Look at the reaction to the new Ghostbusters trailer. Or look at Red Sonya or Vamprilla's or Angela's new updated outfits. God forbid female characters are shown as sexy in any way! Don't want to cater to the dirty middle age pervy man demographic in comics! -_-

Yes, thank you. So tired of the bullying of these types. Seriously everywhere i go i see these people shaming others and trying to force it to be how only they want it. Calling people pervs and misogynists and all kinds of other stuff. Like you said even youtube trailers. Calling female characters weak if they don't kick ass every single moment they're on screen. Then if a male supports that character they just want females to be weak and under their control. It's becoming to the point of insanity.

I agree not every character should be that way. Or, it should be one way all the time. I'm just saying if a certain artist like March has a vision for a character it shouldn't be forced to change according to some agenda of these people. And if others can appreciate it they shouldn't be guilted or made to be ashamed because of that. There can be different artistic visions and fantasies of characters of all sort

[SXVA]

Ok, I get where you come from but I think its nice to see that comics are moving away from cleavage. It's off-putting explaining to your girlfriend you aren't reading Batman for the Catwoman/Harley/Ivy boobs on the cover but for the interesting story beneath it ("yeah... story... clearly" she says). It's nice when comics get more welcoming for a lot of female readers (they need every Cent to survive) who are irritated. PowerGirl or Ivy are sexy but more often they're not. I say that as someone who enjoys Russ Meyer's work or classic pin-ups. I almost skipped DC Bomshells despite it being a good read for all the name implies.

That's fair.

Although i think females can appreciate a sexy female character as well. Cosplayers dress up as sexy characters and so not all females see it the same way. Just like the boys the girls are all different and have different opinions and views all the same. Cleavage, or the male/female form isn't offensive i wouldn't think. I think i get what you mean though. Jut not trying to cater only to the male fantasy exclusively like maybe it has in the past which i'm fine with. I've seen young girls with comic t-shirts and stuff and who love the comic movies and tv series. So that's cool... not only boys are being influenced by these characters but girls as well.

I'm down with all that.

I like stuff such as Gotham Academy, and Scooby-Doo and stuff like that and i'm fine with Marvel/Disney's take on their movie verse being more family friendly. I'm just saying there's room for Deadpool as well. And the people who might like the R-rated Deadpool shouldn't be guilt tripped and made to be ashamed or whatever just because they might enjoy this vision of a character. That's sort of the point i was trying to get across that there doesn't have to be one singular vision and if you're not part of it in accepting it in that way there's something wrong with you sort of thing. Like you're supporting misogyny and sexism because you're not against cleavage on a cover. Or, you secretly want females to be weak if you support a female character that happens to be rescued by a male. That's the way it's made out in such extremes. Not to mention, they go out of their way to try and force everything to their own agenda no matter what. It could be 1 cover out of 20 and they will want that thing removed from existence.

[Doctor Bifrost]

Dude! I feel exactly the same way. See, I like pictures of Superman and the Flash (Barry Allen in particular, but really any Flash) coming out of the shower, either wearing a towel or with just steam covering up their adult-rated parts. Also them in their underwear when they're getting dressed in the morning, especially bending over to pick something up.

But they almost never show us this! And hardly ever on the covers. I don't know why. I think it's just Political Correctness run amok.

Maybe we can form a group and get these attitudes changed. You help me out, I'll help you out. One hand washes the other, and all that.

[BohemiaDrinker]

I was thinking, at the beginning of the post, that thios would be about you liking/disliking the current direction in comics and someone telling "you are not a real fan" or something.

I could sympathize to that.

But then I saw that this was all "the SJWs are taking my boobies away". Well, yes dude, yes tyhey are. They'll continue to do so. Enjoy them while they last, at least at the big 2. There's nothing you can really do about it, and in my book that's a good thing.

[SXVA]

I was thinking, at the beginning of the post, that thios would be about you liking/disliking the current direction in comics and someone telling "you are not a real fan" or something.

I could sympathize to that.

But then I saw that this was all "the SJWs are taking my boobies away". Well, yes dude, yes tyhey are. They'll continue to do so. Enjoy them while they last, at least at the big 2. There's nothing you can really do about it, and in my book that's a good thing.

Care to explain why some people forcing things to be taken away is a "good thing"? You don't have to to, that's fine i'm just curious how someone could think that. Just complete disregard of everyone else. All that matters is what these people think.

There's plenty i can do about it. They could force that agenda in every comic available but they can never take my imagination and fantasy away completely. So... haha @ them.

It's not about "boobies", see that's one of the main problems right there. People like this, they don't even care to try and listen to what's being said. They just see what they want to see, and want what they want and damn the rest of the world. The world must be in this image. The arrogance of it all is astounding.

Dude! I feel exactly the same way. See, I like pictures of Superman and the Flash (Barry Allen in particular, but really any Flash) coming out of the shower, either wearing a towel or with just steam covering up their adult-rated parts. Also them in their underwear when they're getting dressed in the morning, especially bending over to pick something up.

But they almost never show us this! And hardly ever on the covers. I don't know why. I think it's just Political Correctness run amok.

Maybe we can form a group and get these attitudes changed. You help me out, I'll help you out. One hand washes the other, and all that.

I'd support you in that. I found it refreshing to see Ryan Reynold's bare ass in Deadpool not because i was into it or anything but just because they did something that didn't bow down to any forced agenda. A bare ass in a superhero movie! Aghhhh the world must be in chaos and panic. The end times rapture. If Ryan Reynold's butt makes another appearance in Deadpool 2 i'll cheer for it.

[Carabas]

As a comic reader and taking part in various communities relating to comics i've seen the drastic trend that's taken shape by a certain group of people who continuously try and force their agenda upon everyone else.

And you know what, i was actually buying into it... i was beginning to feel like i was doing something wrong, ashamed or thinking maybe they're right and there was something wrong with me because of possibly liking female characters to have cleavage or dressed a certain way or portrayed as *gasp* sexy. Powergirl for example. Yeah, i enjoy her cleavage. That's right, i said it. In my fantasies i enjoy having a beautiful sexy female character and appreciating her body and/or cleavage. I don't see superhero females like this in my every day life and so it's enjoyable to be a part of my fantasy world.

Seeing the Catwoman cover by Guillem March redone with her cleavage covered up sort of set me off on this rant. Not that alone, or specifically it just was a bunch of things again again that built up to that point. There's nothing wrong with March's vision of Catwoman in this cover. yet, there's always gotta be this statement and agenda forced into it. Oh, i'm covering up her cleavage. I'm taking a stand against objectifying of females, etc, etc.

Before you think it's simply about wanting to sexualize everything, that's not it.. i'm not even that sexual of a person.. it's more about worship i guess or admiration. i could easily go look at porn all over the internet if that was the purpose. The point is there's nothing wrong with people liking all kinds of different things in their fantasy existence. And if i appreciate that Catwoman cover it has nothing to do with sexism or misogyny.

You know who else shares a similar pattern to what's going on with this trend...? Bullies, that's who. Trying to force their agenda on everyone to the point it must be accepted. Shame you into it, guilt you into it, push and push until you accept it. Well, no more bullies. I'm not ashamed, i'm not accepting your agenda. I'll like what i want and my fantasies will be what i want. I'll enjoy and appreciate Catwoman's cleavage, or Powergirl or any female character portayed as being sexy or dressed a certain way or whoever and whatever else i want to. Hopefully others will as well and not bow down to this forced agenda being pushed on everything. Every cover, every character these SJW bullies are trying to force it into only what they want even if they don't read it or follow it or anything. Don't let them break your will. Appreciate the characters how you want to and don't let them shame you into thinking it's somehow sexist or misogynist to do so... because it's not.

Not even only that, like every female character has to be the most badass at everything. You can't even have a damsel in distress or a love interest anymore. It's absurd.

There should be a balance. Not all the one way or all the other way. There's room for a kickass female character who wrecks sh*t and there's room for a love interest or someone who needs protection. There's room for males like this as well. There's room for all of it. A balance of everything. I'm fine with all of that relating to male characters as well... have Flash or Arrow rocking some tighty whiteys with shirt off and enjoy him in your fantasies however you want and i'm not complaining if you enjoy that. Just stop trying to control mine. and force whatever agenda you have on me and onto everything else. Every character, every comic, every cover, every story doesn't have to be according to that agenda. There are other people in the world you know, who have different ideas and opinions that i know this might be shocking but... different than yours.

Ehm... Have you tried... I don't know... real porn?

Most of us do not want your fantasies in our books.

[Starter Set]

There is no GIF picture in the whole internet who can truly render justice to how hard i actually facepalmed reading the first message.

Intense.

[Prisoner 6655321]

Yeah, I dunno. Some of the OP sounds reasonable some does not. My biggest concern with the original post, and I am not implying that they actually participate in this is it sounds like a lot of the sort of thinking could be used to justify stuff like street harassment which is not benign.

Personally, I don't really look for sexy in my comics. I guess I don't really slight anyone from doing so but it's kinda a turn off for me. I have a super hot girlfriend and if I didn't there are other… mediums… to find…. pictures of attractive women that do much more to serve their purpose. When I'm reading an over sexualized comic or hand one to someone a part of me feels sincerely embarrassed not because I'm a prude but because I've got better ways to get my jollies. This said, I'm not often offended by nudity or whatever either.

Not having seen SJW before I Googled it. Wtf? Seriously. This transformed my whole view of this thing and flicked my hostility switch… Your paradigm is screwed and when I see things like this sometimes I don't know what to say. First of all, you've got to realize that there is no solid mass united really, for any cause, against you or anyone else. Secondly, “Social justice” is a admirable goal especially considering the lack of thereof and even more so the historic lack of there of… Next on the list … never mind, I'm gonna end this here and go peruse my agenda for a more enlightened egalitarian world though bullying.

[Prisoner 6655321]

Care to explain why some people forcing things to be taken away is a "good thing"? You don't have to to, that's fine i'm just curious how someone could think that. Just complete disregard of everyone else. All that matters is what these people think..

1-the-jazz-singer-al-jolson-1927-everett.jpg
Taking some things away can be a good thing.

[Cowtools]

Taking some things away can be a good thing.

LOL. That's a perfect response. Well done.

As for the OP... If you want boobs and butts in your comics, well you're well catered for. Try Zenoscope. Or comics from the 90s.
Or, like Carabas said, you could just buy porn. Go get a concentrated dose without all that pesky 'plot' and 'character' detracting from your wanking material.

Speaking as a straight male myself, I AM ashamed when I mention that I read comics like Wonder Woman, and all other people comment on is the impracticality of her costume - and they assume that I read the comic for prurient reasons. I ashamed that the companies I'm so invested in feel the need to market to my demographic with T&A, instead of quality stories - these companies must have a very low opinion of us straight men.

You know what people don't understand about this whole 'SJW agenda' business? It's not a evil conspiracy of PC bullies forcing DC and Marvel to de-sexify their comics. It's DC and Marvel responding to changes in their reading demographic. It's capitalism at work! More and more women and young people are reading comics - but they're only reading comics that don't pander to prurient interests. They don't want to see gratuitous boob and ass shots in stories that are supposed to be uplifting and relatable. So the companies stop giving that to them. It's basic supply-and-demand economics, not a sinister SJW agenda.

EDIT: And that doesn't mean there can't be sexy comics, or sexy characters in superhero comics. But it should only be if the comics or the characters were designed that way. Superhero comics can be many things: morality plays, wish fulfilment fantasies, sci-fi and fantasy tales, pulp adventure stories, social commentary - if one of these stories leads itself naturally to a bit of cheekiness, then why not - Like Palmiotti, Gray & Connor's light-hearted Power Girl run; you don't hear SJW's complaining about that. But they were right to complain about those Catwoman covers, because there's no in-story reason why Catwoman should have her boobs hanging out.

[SXVA]

That wasn't forced through agenda control though. That has faded away on it's own progress.

But... okay, yes there is always an exception to the rule. It's like with free speech it's a great concept but is hate speech such a great thing. I don't think that forcing it away is the best thing. Maybe reaching a certain point through understanding perhaps.

Yeah, I dunno. Some of the OP sounds reasonable some does not. My biggest concern with the original post, and I am not implying that they actually participate in this is it sounds like a lot of the sort of thinking could be used to justify stuff like street harassment which is not benign.

Personally, I don't really look for sexy in my comics. I guess I don't really slight anyone from doing so but it's kinda a turn off for me. I have a super hot girlfriend and if I didn't there are other… mediums… to find…. pictures of attractive women that do much more to serve their purpose. When I'm reading an over sexualized comic or hand one to someone a part of me feels sincerely embarrassed not because I'm a prude but because I've got better ways to get my jollies. This said, I'm not often offended by nudity or whatever either.

Not having seen SJW before I Googled it. Wtf? Seriously. This transformed my whole view of this thing and flicked my hostility switch… Your paradigm is screwed and when I see things like this sometimes I don't know what to say. First of all, you've got to realize that there is no solid mass united really, for any cause, against you or anyone else. Secondly, “Social justice” is a admirable goal especially considering the lack of thereof and even more so the historic lack of there of… Next on the list … never mind, I'm gonna end this here and go peruse my agenda for a more enlightened egalitarian world though bullying.

Well, you just admitted you don't really know anything about SJW enough to where you need to google it. You don't know the half of it. If you knew the amount of bullying these people with these agendas do online it might change your thoughts on that a bit. They are quite effective at it as well. They have the whole group mentality thing down.

I've already stated and say again, it's not about sexualizing everything or getting off. As i pointed out in the first post. At least for me it's not, i can't speak for everyone. I'm not getting off on these characters in such a way. It's difficult to make it so it's understandable but it's more about worship or admiration for that which is outside of normalcy. Something like that. Kind of like Weird Science where they're building their perfect fantasy. It's their fantasy world and it's in contrast to the mundane that they might experience day to day in normal life that they might admire or worship in that context. There isn't just one singular fantasy though. There's any number of variables.

You know what people don't understand about this whole 'SJW agenda' business? It's not a evil conspiracy of PC bullies forcing DC and Marvel to de-sexify their comics. It's DC and Marvel responding to changes in their reading demographic. It's capitalism at work! More and more women and young people are reading comics - but they're only reading comics that don't pander to prurient interests. They don't want to see gratuitous boob and ass shots in stories that are supposed to be uplifting and relatable. So the companies stop giving that to them. It's basic supply-and-demand economics, not a sinister SJW agenda.

It's just not as simple as that. It's not like they're twirling their mustache and plotting to take over the world but they do have an extreme agenda and they do attempt to force this upon everything and anyone not in line with it. And have become good at using this group mentality and loud voice to execute their agenda. I've seen countless examples of it firsthand. It's group mentality and it's bullying. I know what it is and i've observed it all over the internet in every dang corner i could explore. Of course some people aren't going to acknowledge this when it suits their agenda or they're simply ignorant of it. I'm not here to convince anyone of anything. Think what you want. I know what i've seen and experienced. People don't want to deal with that kind of backlash and trouble. People have given tearful apologies in response even when they didn't do anything... things have been changed as a result. It's not just a few grandma's in the back of a bingo hall writing letters about some language they heard. These people are misguided fanatics which are the most dangerous kind. Agents of arrogant ignorance.

I'm just here to express myself and say F that noise. Not to change minds or convince anyone. So, i don't really have to defend myself. I just was engaging some people in discussion because i found their responses interesting not in defending anything. I have nothing to defend. As i stated, no more of that being ashamed or guilt tripped. I don't accept that forced agenda nor do i bow to it. I am free!
the-shawshank-redemption-poster.jpg

[Jon Clark]

Have to say how interesting it was to see just how many people jumped up to illustrate the OP's point.

Personally as long as something isn't taking place in a book I read or happening to a character I otherwise enjoy then more power to you. You want an amazon warrior running around nude- long as I don't have to read it be my guest. You want an amazon warrior covered head-to-toe in armor that hides her figure then that's fine, too. Want a superteam that represents every possible background and lifestyle ... long as it doesn't mess with my Superman titles, have a ball. And if you want to write about a hero who never encounters anyone but white heterosexuals- no skin off my nose. If enough people buy it to keep it in production, then I say let it flourish.