IGN: "Why Iron Man Isn't The Villain In Civil War"

[Tony Stark]

But there's no more solo IM movies on the slate so what golden goose would they be shooting?

What about the Avengers movies coming out that RDJ is such a HUGE part of. You point is doesn't make sense.

[Huntsman Spider]

Yeah, but this isn't a single government. This a United Nations sanctioned bill/policy.

Why? Because the New Avengers, and their benefactors, are essentially a PMC (Private Military Company) with no jurisdiction, and having members that would qualify as WMDs. They've also illegally crossed international borders, and air spaces. That's what makes Stark not the villain here, besides his characterization: the New Avengers are illegal, or at least to doing illegal things.

Not to mention that other than Cap 2, a lot of the catastrophic events have been at the fault of these Avengers. Even with Cap 2, you can attribute to Fury's ignorance, in how he, of all people, didn't see this.

Point on the bolded, but HYDRA could just as easily have expanded into other countries, since HYDRA has long ceased to be merely a Nazi German organization and its recruitment in more recent years has been much more diverse than expected for its origins. Still stands, ultimately, that even if the Sokovia Accords are being pushed by the international community as represented by the United Nations, it's just as likely that there are those positioned within the nations signing off on this that hope to exploit it for their own evil/corrupt ends. If the United States, great bastion of freedom and democracy as it is, could nearly be taken over from the inside by Marvel's chief fascists and still have a number of those agents working within its government, why should Steve trust that the rest of the world's governments are any better defended against their own insidious fascist operators, or aren't already controlled by those fascist operators?

Oh, and I would mention that Loki and the Chitauri weren't to Earth brought by the Avengers, they were brought by S.H.I.E.L.D. experimenting with the Tesseract after the first Thor movie. HYDRA was incubating within S.H.I.E.L.D. for decades since S.H.I.E.L.D.'s very inception, so if the disaster brought about by HYDRA tipping its hand was anybody's fault, it was Nick Fury's for not seeing it sooner, but Nick Fury didn't control or lead the Avengers; he merely organized them in his capacity as Director of S.H.I.E.L.D. The Avengers worked with S.H.I.E.L.D., but with the exception of those that were agents already or became agents afterwards, the Avengers were not of S.H.I.E.L.D. And Ultron? The fault of only one Avenger --- two if we account for Bruce Banner's part in assisting Tony Stark in Ultron's creation, and the brawl between Iron Man and Hulk in South Africa? Technically Wanda Maximoff's fault when she and her brother Pietro were collaborating with Ultron, before they learned Ultron's true intentions for the world, and she became an Avenger to make up for it, she wasn't one at the time. To make a long summation short, it's easy and convenient to blame the Avengers for the loss of innocent life in events that they largely did not set into motion but were trying to stop for the sake of saving innocent life because they're the ones in the flashy costumes and have abilities and resources beyond those of most mere mortals, but how about turning that blame on the villains who actually set out to kill as many innocent people as they could manage and would have killed many, many, many more if the Avengers hadn't stopped them?

[Agent Z]

Point on the bolded, but HYDRA could just as easily have expanded into other countries, since HYDRA has long ceased to be merely a Nazi German organization and its recruitment in more recent years has been much more diverse than expected for its origins. Still stands, ultimately, that even if the Sokovia Accords are being pushed by the international community as represented by the United Nations, it's just as likely that there are those positioned within the nations signing off on this that hope to exploit it for their own evil/corrupt ends. If the United States, great bastion of freedom and democracy as it is, could nearly be taken over from the inside by Marvel's chief fascists and still have a number of those agents working within its government, why should Steve trust that the rest of the world's governments are any better defended against their own insidious fascist operators, or aren't already controlled by those fascist operators?

Oh, and I would mention that Loki and the Chitauri weren't to Earth brought by the Avengers, they were brought by S.H.I.E.L.D. experimenting with the Tesseract after the first Thor movie. HYDRA was incubating within S.H.I.E.L.D. for decades since S.H.I.E.L.D.'s very inception, so if the disaster brought about by HYDRA tipping its hand was anybody's fault, it was Nick Fury's for not seeing it sooner, but Nick Fury didn't control or lead the Avengers; he merely organized them in his capacity as Director of S.H.I.E.L.D. The Avengers worked with S.H.I.E.L.D., but with the exception of those that were agents already or became agents afterwards, the Avengers were not of S.H.I.E.L.D. And Ultron? The fault of only one Avenger --- two if we account for Bruce Banner's part in assisting Tony Stark in Ultron's creation, and the brawl between Iron Man and Hulk in South Africa? Technically Wanda Maximoff's fault when she and her brother Pietro were collaborating with Ultron, before they learned Ultron's true intentions for the world, and she became an Avenger to make up for it, she wasn't one at the time. To make a long summation short, it's easy and convenient to blame the Avengers for the loss of innocent life in events that they largely did not set into motion but were trying to stop for the sake of saving innocent life because they're the ones in the flashy costumes and have abilities and resources beyond those of most mere mortals, but how about turning that blame on the villains who actually set out to kill as many innocent people as they could manage and would have killed many, many, many more if the Avengers hadn't stopped them?

On the other hand SHIELD would never have gotten the Tesseract if Odin hadn't left it on Earth to be found by Hydra. And Wanda having her actions being excused and swept under the rug has some bad implications in and of itself.

[Ken Ashcroft]

Maybe they blamed it all on Quicksilver since he's not around to deny it?

[cranger]

And there was no S.H.I.E.L.D. because S.H.I.E.L.D. had been used from its beginnings as an incubator for the rebirth of HYDRA and when HYDRA exposed itself out of the belief that it was going to finally win and cement its takeover of the United States (and then the world), that was the end for S.H.I.E.L.D. HYDRA, on the other hand, had many cells that continued onward after its defeat, which certain leaders treated as a mere setback and merely pressed on more insidiously and covertly than before. Working more insidiously and covertly actually got one of their own --- an actual/former World Security Councilor --- into the White House as a top adviser to the President on certain sensitive matters like the growing superhuman (Inhuman) population and its potential threat to national security. Even if Captain America didn't find out that there were still HYDRA infiltrators still in the U.S. government, the experience from The Winter Soldier would have still impressed upon him that governments could be subverted or corrupted by evil forces that would then exploit any regulation or oversight of superheroes to fit their own sinister agendas. Plenty of reason to distrust the idea of said oversight.

You can certainly make that leap, I am just going by what is said in the interview and there is no mention of "what if this overseeing body becomes infiltrated by HYDRA" as part of the concerns. They operated after the collapse of SHIELD because someone had to, not because they should not have to answer to someone. That is how the movies have worked, it is quite different than the comics, and honestly kind of reverses the roles of Cap and Iron Man as far as whose stance is a departure from the accepted role of the superhero.

[Frontier]

On the other hand SHIELD would never have gotten the Tesseract if Odin hadn't left it on Earth to be found by Hydra. And Wanda having her actions being excused and swept under the rug has some bad implications in and of itself.

So is Tony though, and he's getting the opportunity to spearhead and lead the accords when he's the Avenger who's probably most in need of oversight.

[Holt]

Maybe they blamed it all on Quicksilver since he's not around to deny it?

That'd be hilarious. I'm also wondering how much, if anything the public knows about the situation, because they could potentially blame it on HYDRA. After all, HYDRA made the prototype Ultron bodies and were trying to experiment with the A.I. before Tony stole and finished it.

that is because SW fans are weird people who somehow enjoy wearing characters on them that are space nazis and murder there own family

I mean shit, you don't see many Red Skull shirts do ya?

No, but I've seen Joker and Harley Quinn shirts for years. When the Dark Knight came out everyone was doing Heather Ledger impersonations for years.

Villains being insanely popular is not at all exclusive to the Star Wars fandom, but in the the case of Iron Man it's totally different. I can't think of very many successful cases where a company took a character who was introduced as a hero for most of his existence and then randomly made him into a bad guy and then still had people like him.

[Moral_Gutpunch]

but how about turning that blame on the villains who actually set out to kill as many innocent people as they could manage and would have killed many, many, many more if the Avengers hadn't stopped them?

I know I'm new to the forums, but I feel this is a much better answer. Not only is it a better solution to prevent bad guys from getting their hands on very dangerous stuff, but also recognizing when a bad guy will pretty much defeat himself or that his plan will just turn out to result in absolutely nothing.

While it's bad to let Tony just plug in an infinity gem into a computer, it's probably worse to just leave it lying around where any mad scientist can play with it.

[Hulkout42]

Disney isn't about to shoot their golden goose.

And yet they messed up the Mandarin royally to give us a lame version of AIM.

[Hulkout42]

Obviously we need to wait for the film to get the full picture. The trailers seem to paint the conflict around Bucky. They show Bucky attempt to murder Iron Man, and it's implied that he bombed the U.N. Building (nearly killing Black Panther) and maybe shot War Machine. We don't know if he did all of that, but on the assumption that he did, Iron Man would be totally in the right to try to bring him in.

Just as Zemo would want him to act not knowing he was being played like a fiddle.

[t hedge coke]

And yet they messed up the Mandarin royally to give us a lame version of AIM.

You were disappointed. The movie still made over a billion dollars and continues to entertain a helluva lot of people.

And, to be fair, all versions of AIM are pretty lame. That's part of AIM's charm.

[MichaelC]

They didn't mess up Mandarin. The Killiandarin was true to the essence of The Mandarin.

[t hedge coke]

They didn't mess up Mandarin. The Killiandarin was true to the essence of The Mandarin.

The Mandarin isn't a legit guy, but a scary orientalist front to distract from the real guy is a straight up ripped from the comics storyline, for all that.

[Holt]

And yet they messed up the Mandarin royally to give us a lame version of AIM.

I find the Mandarin to be a lame villain anyway, so nothing of value was lost in my view. But regardless, that's not the point. As it stands, Iron Man 3 is the highest grossing solo movie in the whole MCU. The character is extremely popular with audiences, so they aren't gonna throw him under the bus.

[MichaelC]

The Mandarin isn't a legit guy, but a scary orientalist front to distract from the real guy is a straight up ripped from the comics storyline, for all that.

That's not what I'm referring to, but rather to this:

(1)The Mandarin the comics is a one-man version of the military industrial complex, a ruler who spends all his kingdom's money turning himself into a person of mass destruction, a science and martial arts super-soldier. He basically spends the entire budget on the military, it's just he's the entire military. In the end his fiefdom is too broke to even pay taxes.

Is Killian a one-man version of the military industrial complex? He's a member of the military industrial complex, he embodies the corruption of the military industrial complex to the point of caricature. He's using taxpayer money to turn himself into a super-soldier, and it's part of a scheme to get America spending even more money on his super-soldier program. While it may not literally make America flat broke by itself, his scheme is a massive example, a caricatured example, of the corrupt and bloated military spending that is causing America such budget problems.

(2)The Mandarin is a mad scientist.
Is Killian a Mad Scientist? Yup. It's right there from the moment he pops up.

(3)The Mandarin possesses superhuman martial arts abilities, the most common example of which is the ability to karate-chop chunks off of the Iron Man armor, and generally physically enhancing himself with chi. As corollary to this, he's extremely athletic.

Is Killian a superhuman martial artist? Welllll, yes and no, but mostly yes. He's not literally superhumanly skilled, but he's superhuman and he uses karate-chops to chop the leg off one armor and chop another armor in half. He's not the Chi-channeling mystic monster comic Mandarin is, but for a simplified movie character he's fairly close. He's also played by a guy who is fairly tall and athletic, the star of several action-movies.

(4)The Mandarin often schemes to cause world war III so he can benefit from everyone being at war with everyone else.

Is Killian scheming to cause World War III so he can benefit from everyone being a war with everyone else? Yes and no, but mostly yes. He's scheming to control and render permanent the war on terror, which is to the modern world was World War III was to the 60's.

Killian passes The Mandarin test, or at the very least comes very close for simplified 2013 movie character.