IMO, I think Liu's "Ice God" story would've been a better point of depth for Bobby, than just turning him gay

[TooFlyToFail]

I don't think there is a "right" way to come out - I don't believe I implied that either. I'm saying in terms of storytelling Bendis had an interest concept but no follow through and Liu had been storytelling but avoided the issue.

Avoided the issue? I think I can safely speak for like 99% of comic book readers when I say this...

There was no issue until Bendis decided to ignore continuity.

[NewMutant]

Avoided the issue? I think I can safely speak for like 99% of comic book readers when I say this...

There was no issue until Bendis decided to ignore continuity.

You can speak for yourself.

[TooFlyToFail]

You can speak for yourself.

Okay, sure. I can speak for myself, and several others, that scratched ours heads at the path Bendis took in revealing Bobby to be gay.

I'm just saying that it wasn't an issue until Bendis made it so, which is why I find it odd that you said that Liu avoided the issue. There was no "Bobby is gay" issue in 2013.

[NewMutant]

Okay, sure. I can speak for myself, and several others, that scratched ours heads at the path Bendis took in revealing Bobby to be gay.

I'm just saying that it wasn't an issue until Bendis made it so, which is why I find it odd that you said that Liu avoided the issue. There was no "Bobby is gay" issue in 2013.

There never was an "issue" nor is there now. However, there has been speculation for years, even more so among fans - particularly on the X-Boards; and those speculations came from parallel stories and character traits from the comics. They were just speculations till Bendis confirmed it and now its just conversation. Many creators have addressed their thoughts on Iceman's sexuality since before 2013 even.

[TooFlyToFail]

There never was an "issue" nor is there now. However, there has been speculation for years, even more so among fans - particularly on the X-Boards; and those speculations came from parallel stories and character traits from the comics. They were just speculations till Bendis confirmed it and now its just conversation. Many creators have addressed their thoughts on Iceman's sexuality since before 2013 even.

That may be the case, but those were only speculations. If anything, Liu already told us why Bobby had such trouble with relationships, and why he felt about the people he cared about.

Bendis just went "He's gay.", as if Liu's story didn't already answer these questions. Him being also attracted to men could've easily been expanded from Liu's story.

[Zero Hunter]

The main problem is that pretty much everyone ignored anything that happened in Astonishing X-Men almost like the book was in its own seperate continuity. The events of that book besides maybe bringing Colossus back was kinda just ignored in favor of what was going in the other books.

[Harpsikord]

The difference between Bobby and Jean is that Bobby literally cannot be killed unless he's pushed into a furnace or some shit, and even then that may not work.

Also casual reminder that this story cemented that Bobby has a little Bobby Jr out there, somewhere.

[NewMutant]

That may be the case, but those were only speculations. If anything, Liu already told us why Bobby had such trouble with relationships, and why he felt about the people he cared about.

Bendis just went "He's gay.", as if Liu's story didn't already answer these questions. Him being also attracted to men could've easily been expanded from Liu's story.

Right but everything is speculation in comics. Anything can happen. That is why comics are exciting. 10 years from now a writer can say gay Iceman was a skrull all along and actual Iceman is really heterosexual, etc. Its more believable for a guy to come out and that surprise people than turning into ice being replaced by an alien shape changer.

But my original point was Bendis did just say he was gay and did nothing with it. Liu crafted a better story. Had she address the issue she probably would have done a better job.

[Habis]

I think that arc, "Frozen," I believe is the official name.. but no matter.... I think it's criminal that Liu's arc is generally ignored. It was so much more compelling and emotional than Bendis' "Bobby... you're gay!" story. Clearly. It should have been explored more and acknowledged. But at the time, Astonishing X-Men was a satellite book that had little impact on the X-Men world and that's a real shame.

Other writers than Liu aren't interested in Bobby as a character. They wanted a gay character among the X-Men and to kill his poorly written relationship with Kitty Pryde forever and to make Jeen do relevant stuff. And they had two Icemen around, the teen and the adult, basically being irrelevant and they didn't know or didn't want to do anything with them so, hey, why not have Jeen out him as gay? Jeen changes the story of the X-Men, they call attention on the O5, specially on Jeen, and afterwards Iceman slips back to irrelevancy.

[DreadnoughtHelldiver]

I thought Lou's story was awesome and one if the best of her run. In my opinion it was far superior to Bendis' so called revelation. I think instead of turning Bobby into a gay man, Liu's story should have been expanded on as it gave good explanations as far as Bobby's personality. While there wadding internet speculation I personally am not a fan of the development and would have preferred it if characters who had been already established as gay or bisexual could have been expanded on.

But really the while idea of the O5 coming to the present was not a good one as far as I'm concerned and the whole time travel shenanigans of the X-men are really just overdone at this point. I think I would give anything to just erase the last few years of X-men stories from history lol

[cc008]

It's "great" seeing all the male 05 turn "dark" for "relevancy" without being punished while Jean "had to die 4ever" for being "too dangerous".

There are fates worse than death.

[DDD]

Like being Cyclops' Girlfriend! har!har!

[DDD]

Avoided the issue? I think I can safely speak for like 99% of comic book readers when I say this...

I'm in the 1%. I was looking forward to it.

[Badou]

Liu did try to really delve into Iceman's character and give him a story that touched on his whole history and give him more depth than he had, but unfortunately no other writer really cared enough about it to follow up on it. Bendis didn't care about Iceman or his history, so of course he didn't care about Liu's recent story with him. It didn't fit with what he wanted to do so he just ignored it like he did a lot of things. He just wanted to have fans and readers pat him on the back for having Iceman come out as gay, and of course they did in spades regardless of how terribly it was done. He got all the praise and credit when he really couldn't care less about Iceman or his character. Making him come out in my eyes was nothing more than a tool or a gimmick to prop up his X-Men run that really lacked any actual direction. I don't think it is more complicated than that. Given how quickly he left the X-books I think it was kind of clear he didn't enjoy his time on them.

[donpricetag]

Avoided the issue? I think I can safely speak for like 99% of comic book readers when I say this...

There was no issue until Bendis decided to ignore continuity.

Going to have to agree, there was no issue in terms of canon or story, anything from the past is speculative at best. The only issue existed with a small segment of the fan base, who used Iceman's serial dating habits as a sign of homosexuality. Is it possible? Suuuure, but it wasnt approached in such a way. And to be honest i think they changed the script coming up to #600, which is why i believe it got delayed so much. But to each their own, because you can say the same thing about Wolverine or maybe even Human Torch and Hawkeye IMO.

Bendis could have written that much better. Lui's story wasn't perfect. It dragged in many spots and at times was just talking heads. But it could have set up Bobby's story much better than what we got.